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Old 04-04-2013, 06:44 PM   #101
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08.00 in the morning after breakfast we turn off the nightgen and going to the beach. Approx 11.30 we start the 15 KW gen and we can cooking and make agua and wash with the washmachine. After siesta we turn off for 4 hours the gen and we relax on the fly or on the beach.
18.30 we start the 15 KW gen for cook .
Approx 2100 hour we change the gen and start the 8KW nightgen and turn off the other morning.
And so we need aprox 8 hours/ day the inverter for freezer, fridg and other consum.
Underway we go without gen and the inverter is working with the inverter-Batterie-group from 3 X 8 D.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:10 PM   #102
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Why would I need all of that? The circuits are fed the same regardless of how the AC comes in. Each is protected on a labeled breaker and the output of the inverter is also protected by an independent breaker. The same goes for the genset. If I had a subpanel for the inverter using your logic I would need another for the genset.

I think that's overly cautious considering how well the system I have now is working.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:25 PM   #103
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Why would I need all of that? The circuits are fed the same regardless of how the AC comes in. Each is protected on a labeled breaker and the output of the inverter is also protected by an independent breaker. The same goes for the genset. If I had a subpanel for the inverter using your logic I would need another for the genset.

I think that's overly cautious considering how well the system I have now is working.
I am obviously confusing you because you are completely misunderstanding how the system is laid out. So once again, apologies. It may also be due somewhat to the greater size of my boat and the attendant greater number of electrical circuits. I'll be back home in a few days, maybe a picture or two will make it easy to explain. Again, please keep in mind in my case there are only about a half dozen circuits out of many that are being powered by the inverter. Are you powering every AC circuit on your boat with the inverter?

Edit: in the meantime, here is Magnum's installation and owners manual, which has some relevant diagrams. I have an MS4024, just FYI.

http://www.magnumenergy.com/Literatu...eries)_Web.pdf
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:40 PM   #104
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No. I am not feeding all circuits with the inverter. It feeds the fridge and three wall outlets. Everything else is cold. If i start the genset (feeding THROUGH the inverter) those are fed by the genset... and the others go hot as well.

It's all irrelevant on shore power as everything is switched over by the transfer switch. I really see no need for another panel. Every AC load is protected and isolated by breakers in every possible configuration.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:52 PM   #105
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Headed out, but before i go, so where are the breakers for the fridge and three wall outlets and how are they connected to the inverter?
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:49 PM   #106
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On the main AC panel where they've always been. It doesn't care where the AC comes from.

The fridge and AC outlets are fed from and through the inverter. Everything else is fed around the inverter and are only supplied with AC when the genset is on.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:02 PM   #107
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--To the subject, do you really need a large house bank with inverter and so on......
Thanks Paul
Simple answer - yes. It simplifies onboard life and adds to the comfort of PNW cruising when away from the dock for weeks on end. While you're at it add a reliable genset too.

Norbert does it right. If you really want to save money sell the boat. Nuf said
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:48 AM   #108
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On the main AC panel where they've always been. It doesn't care where the AC comes from.

The fridge and AC outlets are fed from and through the inverter. Everything else is fed around the inverter and are only supplied with AC when the genset is on.
My boat is wired like this. Ac panel has six switches. Only two are connected to the inverter. When no shore power or generator ONLY those two switches can be powered. Period. Doesn't matter what switches are "on," only two are wired to the inverter.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:09 AM   #109
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Sounds like many panels I have seen...I guess without seeing it.

The main panel bus has been split...which make part of it a sub panel (in other words)that's connected up when the transer switch is on.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:37 AM   #110
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Simple answer - yes. It simplifies onboard life and adds to the comfort of PNW cruising when away from the dock for weeks on end. While you're at it add a reliable genset too.

Norbert does it right. If you really want to save money sell the boat. Nuf said
Maybe I should have added more environmental details in my question.
1. Boat will be used primarily in the summer on the coast of South Mississippi, it gets very hot here. So the a/c will most likely run a good portion of the time.
2. Boat will be used about 60% of the time as a "mother ship" to support little boat fishing Trout, Snapper, triple tail or whatever we are going to catch and will be running a #400 ice machine to keep food, beer and said fish cold.
3. I have two 12.5kw gensets, although they haven't proven themselves reliable they do run and make water and power. Only time will tell if they are reliable.
4. The inverter, in my case, would only run games, tv, coffee maker or any other devices while the genset is off.

My question would be do you really need an inverter system at the expense of delaying the use of the boat that would function by just using generated power.
Your right about selling the boat to save money.....
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:34 AM   #111
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I wouldn't leave home without a good inverter system. we anchor out 99% of the time and run the generator only about 1-2 hours a day. We really like the quiet. I currently run 1 large home refrigerator, wine cooler, tv system, micro wave , coffee maker, misc 110 lighting, and 2 navigation computer systems. I installed 2- 2KW outbacks wired in series to give me 4 KW. I also installed their control panel at the helm so I can monitor and control the system. I also went with a 24 volt system to give me more storage and have 12 6 volt golf cart batteries which are separate from my house batteries. I can run the boat for about 24 hours with out starting the gen set.
When installed correctly and wired right they work great.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:44 AM   #112
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Sounds like many panels I have seen...I guess without seeing it.

The main panel bus has been split...which make part of it a sub panel (in other words)that's connected up when the transer switch is on.
That is how my inverter is wired. The main panel neutral bus bar is split. The inverter neutrals tie back through the inverter to the safety ground. The bottom right 4 breakers are the inverter breakers. There is an automatic transfer switch that lets shore or generator power flow through.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:55 AM   #113
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It's only split on the Ship side. On Shore power everything feeds direct from the Main AC breakers.

It's a cleaver and very simple solution. Only confusion was when you buy a boat wired like this from an estate and don't get a chance to ask the previous owner to walk you through it.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:12 AM   #114
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It's only split on the Ship side. On Shore power everything feeds direct from the Main AC breakers.

It's a cleaver and very simple solution. Only confusion was when you buy a boat wired like this from an estate and don't get a chance to ask the previous owner to walk you through it.
I'd have to see a diagram for this one....I guess I'm not seeing where there is lockout to prevent multiple sources of power then.

Of course a picture is a thousand words and my attention span isn't what it used to be....
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:14 AM   #115
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Maybe I should have added more environmental details in my question.
1. Boat will be used primarily in the summer on the coast of South Mississippi, it gets very hot here. So the a/c will most likely run a good portion of the time.
2. Boat will be used about 60% of the time as a "mother ship" to support little boat fishing Trout, Snapper, triple tail or whatever we are going to catch and will be running a #400 ice machine to keep food, beer and said fish cold.
3. I have two 12.5kw gensets, although they haven't proven themselves reliable they do run and make water and power. Only time will tell if they are reliable.
4. The inverter, in my case, would only run games, tv, coffee maker or any other devices while the genset is off.

My question would be do you really need an inverter system at the expense of delaying the use of the boat that would function by just using generated power.
Your right about selling the boat to save money.....
Most larger boats just accept the fact that inverters would be extremely localized exceptions and just run a genset 24x7 when away from the dock. Nothing wrong with it other than the cost of generating unit overhaul on a more frequent basis...then again...most rec craft underutilize their gensets badly enough it kills them in the long. (not usually cruisers...just part timers).
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:16 PM   #116
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I installed 2- 2KW outbacks wired in series to give me 4 KW.
Do you mean in parallel to give you 4KW? Or are they 12V output and wired in series to give you 2KW at 24V?
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:09 PM   #117
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Do you mean in parallel to give you 4KW? Or are they 12V output and wired in series to give you 2KW at 24V?
It worries me to see someone say they installed an electrical component but not be clear about how they actually installed it.

"are they 12V output and wired in series to give you 2KW at 24V?"

I've never tried that and have no reason to, but I suspect that wouldn't work unless there was a way to keep them in phase with each other.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:07 PM   #118
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I'd have to see a diagram for this one....I guess I'm not seeing where there is lockout to prevent multiple sources of power then.

Of course a picture is a thousand words and my attention span isn't what it used to be....
Hope this makes sense (if not I'll blame it on the 15 minutes I insisted I'd spend no more on drawing)

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:22 PM   #119
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Hope this makes sense (if not I'll blame it on the 15 minutes I insisted I'd spend no more on drawing)
nice setup...short and sweet....

as I said a pic is worth a thousand words...especially after happy hour..
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:29 PM   #120
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Hope this makes sense (if not I'll blame it on the 15 minutes I insisted I'd spend no more on drawing)

Perfectly clear!! Great schematic.
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