Which Class B AIS do you have?

[Razorbackron]

So, right after finishing up the autopilot project, I would like to address the need for an AIS that interacts with the Garmin Chartplotter. Entering Norfolk harbor, New York Harbor and the inland rivers would be a lot less stressful if you were seen and could see others around you. I notice several makes that seem to use different terms that are confusing. I understand that a transceiver unit both transmits your location data and receives from other transmitting boats, a receiver unit only tells you about other local boats in your area, a transponder unit only tells other local boats about you and your position. So, what is metadata? Should I also look at the AIS system on the newer VHF radios?

The prices are all over the board on these things. Placing this incoming position data on the chartplotter seems more valuable than on the VHF radio but I'm not sure. Can I purchase and install this unit (the black box) myself or do you need someone to do it for me?

Has anyone else done it recently? What system did you choose?

 

[Xsbank]

My understanding is a transponder broadcasts your position and depending upon whether you use a plotter or the device's screen you can see other boats too. I have a Standard Horizon radio with AIS built in and I can see targets with my plotter but they can't see me (except that I'm Miracle Metal and am, to all intents, a giant radar reflector).

 

[Xsbank]

And to answer your question, I plan a Comnav Class B AIS. That's on page 6 of my to-do list.

 

[N4712]

Heres a nmea 2000 transceiver which should work with all modern chart plotters it sends (given you enter an mmsi#) and receives ais signals.
http://www.thegpsstore.com/Si-Tex-M...r-P3172.aspx?gclid=CLnws_bg7bwCFRJo7AodLgsADQ

 

[ksanders]

I have a Furuno class B AIS

It uses ethernet to talk to the furuno nav equipment

 

[Rusty]

We had Comar AIS receivers on the last two boats.

Now we have a Garmin AIS 600 Transceiver with a dedicated antenna.

 

[Bob Cofer]

We have a Garmin AIS networked to our Garmin 740s Plotter via N2K. You can also connect via 183 if necessary.

VHF is connected to AIS then AIS to antenna.

Gives AIS info on plotter and seamless radio operation.

Best 200 bucks I have ever spent on Craigslist!

 

[harbor950]

Can I purchase and install this unit (the black box) myself or do you need someone to do it for me?

Has anyone else done it recently? What system did you choose?

Haven't done it, but I am curious as well. Using Xsbank's (while he is "Learning to Fly") plans as an example, I found the manual and it all seems quite doable. Begin on Page 8 and follow the installation. Installation (after configuration) using NMEA0183, NMEA2000 or wifi all seems straightforward. For US residents, the configuration must be done by the retailer or an installer.

http://www.comnavmarine.com/download/29010084_v1r0_Mariner_X2_Gen2_Installation_Operation_Manual.pdf

 

[Insequent]

Comnav AIS.

Easy to install: its own VHF antenna, GPS mushroom, fused 12V and then NMEA connection to chartplotter.

I did it in the USA and needed an MMSI before they will sell you one. I used my Australian MMSI of course, and it was fine.

 

[Baker]

I needed a new VHF radio. I always wanted an AIS receiver. I bought a Standard Horizon GX2150 which had an AIS receiver built in for $350!! The Garmin Receiver ONLY was $400+ depending on where you bought it. So I feel I got the AIS for free. Anyway, I have it hooked up with a Garmin 740s and am tickled pink with the whole set up....not to mention it sends GPS data back to the radio if you want to broadcast your position via DSC.

I think transponder is a generic term for an AIS transmitter. I may be wrong. But it is, in essence, a transponder.

 

[twistedtree]

Heres a nmea 2000 transceiver which should work with all modern chart plotters it sends (given you enter an mmsi#) and receives ais signals.
Si-Tex MDA 1 Metadata Class B AIS Transceiver The GPS Store

Except Furuno NaveNet 3D systems. They don't accept AIS via N2K, nor do they re-broadcast their proprietary AIS on N2K so other devices can use it.

 

[twistedtree]

I'd like to REALLY encourage you to get a full AIS transceiver (transmit and receive) so you can both see, and be seen. I think these receive-only devices are doing a huge dis-service to boating by leading people into believing they have AIS when they really don't. Tons and tons of people are checking "AIS" off their list because they can see the few boats that are transmitting, and now will never be visible to the rest of us. This seriously erodes the value of AIS, and slows it's full adoption.

 

[rwidman]

I needed a new VHF radio. I always wanted an AIS receiver. I bought a Standard Horizon GX2150 which had an AIS receiver built in for $350!! The Garmin Receiver ONLY was $400+ depending on where you bought it. So I feel I got the AIS for free. Anyway, I have it hooked up with a Garmin 740s and am tickled pink with the whole set up....not to mention it sends GPS data back to the radio if you want to broadcast your position via DSC.

I think transponder is a generic term for an AIS transmitter. I may be wrong. But it is, in essence, a transponder.

Your GX2150 only receives AIS signals so it's not really a "transponder".

I am considering a GX2150 connected to my Garmin MFDs as well. I have a feeling those big ships aren't going to concern themselves too much with my little boat so as long as I know where they are I'll just stay out of their way.

Transmitting my location might be nice so friends and family could see where I am might be nice but I don't think it's worth the additional cost and complexity.

 

[rwidman]

I'd like to REALLY encourage you to get a full AIS transceiver (transmit and receive) so you can both see, and be seen. I think these receive-only devices are doing a huge dis-service to boating by leading people into believing they have AIS when they really don't. Tons and tons of people are checking "AIS" off their list because they can see the few boats that are transmitting, and now will never be visible to the rest of us. This seriously erodes the value of AIS, and slows it's full adoption.

If every jon boat had AIS transmitting capability, the ships would have to turn them off. It would result in far too much clutter. They are a requirement for boats above a certain size.

As I understand it, the US government was considering requiring all boats to install AIS transmitters for "Homeland Security" purposes. Fortunately, someone with a brain pointed out that anyone bent on causing harm could just cut the wire.

The biggest mistake I see is people using an "app" on their phones getting AIS locations off the Internet and thinking they have an AIS receiver. Internet AIS data is old and very incomplete.

 

[psneeld]

just remember...till AIS is required for everything that moves on the water and even every navaid...your RADAR is by far the better tool.

Every boat that I have had a close call with in my foggy travel days both ICW, Chesapeake and Delaware bays was not required to have AIS.

For those that travel river systems frequented by large barge trains I certainly see your desire to at least be able to know what's coming.

Great tool but for many boaters ...but it's about the last electronic tool that will wind up on my boat because of how and where I boat (NJ to FL and back via the ICW).

I would be all over AIS if bridgetenders had to have a receiver....the bridge in Beaufort, NC almost closed on me because he had a guy go through ahead of me who hadn't spoke with him in over 15 minutes. He thought it was clear and almost closed on me. In the last 4000 miles of ICW travel...that's the closest I ever needed one and bridges I don't think are required to have them.

 

[twistedtree]

If every jon boat had AIS transmitting capability, the ships would have to turn them off. It would result in far too much clutter.

I don't buy the clutter argument. All those targets show up on Radar and we all seem to manage just fine. Why would it be any worse with AIS?

If someone is happy not being seen, then I think they also yield all right-of-way.

 

[twistedtree]

just remember...till AIS is required for everything that moves on the water and even every navaid...your RADAR is by far the better tool.

A couple of clarifications....

I'm not suggesting that AIS should be required, just as Radar is not required. Heck, even a VHF isn't required for rec boats.

I just think AIS is a very helpful ADDITIVE tool to aid in navigation. But it's only additive if people install it, and the value goes up exponentially the more people install it.

However, receive-only only helps YOU instead of helping you and everyone else who has AIS. The additive value of your receiver to the AIS community is zero because the pool of visible boats does not increase. Essentially you are freeloading off the rest of us who have added value to the pool of AIS visible boats by including a transmitter.

 

[psneeld]

A couple of clarifications....

I'm not suggesting that AIS should be required, just as Radar is not required. Heck, even a VHF isn't required for rec boats.

I just think AIS is a very helpful ADDITIVE tool to aid in navigation. But it's only additive if people install it, and the value goes up exponentially the more people install it.

However, receive-only only helps YOU instead of helping you and everyone else who has AIS. The additive value of your receiver to the AIS community is zero because the pool of visible boats does not increase. Essentially you are freeloading off the rest of us who have added value to the pool of AIS visible boats by including a transmitter.

I think this is dangerous thinking in the rec boat community...as I said there's way more things to hit and kill yourself out there other than what has an AIS transceiver. Untill EVERTYTHING has one...you are better off learning to use RADAR like an AWACS aircraft or avoid traveling in limited vis.

I think they are great and think having a transponder is the way to go...but it just being a tool...and one farther down the food chain for how and where I boat...I wouldn't condemn another for freeloading (it is a safety tool even if underutilized in many people's way of thinking).

 

[SomeSailor]

I don't buy the clutter myth either. Just like terminal control areas for planes, controllers weren't overwhelmed by aircraft with transponders. It might get crowded at higher range rates, but knowing who's out there, how fast they're moving and where they're headed is incredibly valuable in any weather.

We also have a Garmin AIS 600 Transceiver with a dedicated antenna. It works wonderfully and was one of the easier installs we've done.

 

[twistedtree]

I don't buy the clutter myth either. Just like terminal control areas for planes, controllers weren't overwhelmed by aircraft with transponders. It might get crowded at higher range rates, but knowing who's out there, how fast they're moving and where they're headed is incredibly valuable in any weather.

We also have a Garmin AIS 600 Transceiver with a dedicated antenna. It works wonderfully and was one of the easier installs we've done.

Right, in fact, the more there are the more important it is to see them all.

 

[Baker]

I disagree with twistedtree. The real question you need to answer(and what psneeld is getting at) is what is AIS for? What is it's purpose? It's purpose is NOT for traffic/collision avoidance. Like was said above, there is no substitute for radar. If you think it is for collision avoidance, then you are being lulled into a false sense of security. Sure it can aid in knowing the movement of vessels. But it's primary purpose is right there in the name.....IDENTIFICATION!

But until every single vessel is required to have AIS, then your argument does not hold water. And no, I am not freeloading. I will equip my boat as I see fit as long as it is within the regulations. I boat in one of the busiest ports in the world(Houston). And I honestly don't care whether a pleasure boat is transmitting or not. I just want to know the names(there's that identification thing again) of the large boat(tanker, tow, etc) I am near so I can hail them on the radio and coordinate any passing/overtaking maneuver. It helps wonderfully in blind turns in the ICW where a tow may have 3 or 4 barges strung out 1200ft long. If you meet that guy in a turn you want to be able to IDENTIFY and talk to him instead of just appearing around a corner. Anyway.....that is my purpose for AIS. In these areas, regardless of the rules, I always consider myself the burdened vessel because physics says I am. I want to be able to identify and talk to the vessel that might cause me harm. I doubt he is that worried about me...

 

[psneeld]

And thus lies the rub...till mandated...you'll never see them all and what's the count right now....1-2% of boats/ships have them???? tops 1-2% and I doubt that....

I always chuckle at comparing boating to flying....other than not doing either with your head up your you know what...the more I try or see other's try to compare the two...the less I see the comparison. Sure one little part compared to the other of similar nature...like both have compasses...or both can run out of fuel...but comparing overall boating to overall flying I just don't get.

Boats go every which way except for the really big boys...most planes go to airports....lot's more predictable in my book...almost every comparison between the two to me has pretty substantial holes in it. Again...if you operate in high traffic areas...up goes the importance.....I avoid shipping areas because I don't need them...an I do transit DelBay, ChesBay, Norfolk, Charleston, Savannah, Jax, etc...but only to cut across or parallel the shipping channel (I don't need 45 feet of water to operate in).

Again for the record...I think AIS transponders are valuable tools...but like a Snap ON torque wrenchs...they are out of place in the kitchen drawer of most beginner handymen except for maybe one job in hundreds.

 

[twistedtree]

...as I said there's way more things to hit and kill yourself out there other than what has an AIS transceiver. Until EVERTYTHING has one...you are better off learning to use RADAR like an AWACS aircraft or avoid traveling in limited vis.

Totally agree, and I have radar and use it. I didn't mean to imply AIS was a substitute or replacement for radar. I think most would agree that no one tool is a replacement for another, and AIS is no different in my opinion. That's why I say "additive". It doesn't replace radar, but rather adds additional information that is most often helpful. Similarly, radar doesn't replace looking out the window, but it sure adds to a visual watch.

I just see this trend where only big vessels will transmit AIS, and pretty much everyone else will only receive because, as has been pointed out in this thread, receive-only has near zero incremental cost. The result is that only big vessels show up on AIS, yet those are the vessels that are already the easiest to see visually, the easiest to see on Radar, the most likely to be monitoring VHF, and the most likely to understand and follow the rules of the road. The effect is to take a really good idea (AIS) and hollowed it out to the point of adding little to no value.

 

[psneeld]

Totally agree, and I have radar and use it. I didn't mean to imply AIS was a substitute or replacement for radar. I think most would agree that no one tool is a replacement for another, and AIS is no different in my opinion. That's why I say "additive". It doesn't replace radar, but rather adds additional information that is most often helpful. Similarly, radar doesn't replace looking out the window, but it sure adds to a visual watch.

I just see this trend where only big vessels will transmit AIS, and pretty much everyone else will only receive because, as has been pointed out in this thread, receive-only has near zero incremental cost. The result is that only big vessels show up on AIS, yet those are the vessels that are already the easiest to see visually, the easiest to see on Radar, the most likely to be monitoring VHF, and the most likely to understand and follow the rules of the road. The effect is to take a really good idea (AIS) and hollowed it out to the point of adding little to no value.

As I said...Inland Rivers....pretty important (as I have been told but haven't experienced but I'll take posters word on it for now)...

Most of the East Coast cruising (not the guy who sails NYC harbor every weekend...it might help him plan tacks)...because so few have it...it in my eyes it does have little or no value at this point...not till 75% or better of boats over 16 feet have it....till then as Baker said...all it really gives me is a name to use on the VHF.

And to the skippers that say they need speed and heading on a vessel to safely boat...wow...what have we done all these years in our toy boats that can stop or turn in a couple boat lengths.

 

[sunchaser]

Difficult to understand why pros like Baker and Psneeld are not avid supporters of send receive AIS. But then I have to remind myself that old time goalies like Gump Worsley and Jaques Plante hated the advent of hockey masks.

Tends to make me think that there is a syndrome at work that says full AIS is for sissies. Count me as one wearing a skirt here. My send/receive Class AIS is into its 5th season and much utilized on our vessel and appreciated by the commercial guys, so they say when the weather is closed in.

 

[dimer2]

Sure one little part compared to the other of similar nature...like both have compasses...or both can run out of fuel...but comparing overall boating to overall flying I just don't get.

Boats go every which way except for the really big boys...most planes go to airports....lot's more predictable in my book...almost every comparison between the two to me has pretty substantial holes in it..

I think you would be surprised at how much the two have in common and I personally think pilots make pretty good boaters.

For a start, they tend to not run out of fuel
Do a thorough pre departure engine/systems check.
Are professional on the radio.
Pretty good navigators.
Are constantly aware of traffic in the area.
Tend to have a plan, and an alternative, prior to departure
Scan their engine instruments every few minutes etc etc etc...

There are more airports (many are uncontrolled) than harbors and there are many aircraft still flying without even radios never mind transponders.

 

[twistedtree]

Just for kicks I started a Poll over here to get a sense of what types of AIS people have installed and/or plan to install.

 

[ksanders]

I'd like to REALLY encourage you to get a full AIS transceiver (transmit and receive) so you can both see, and be seen. I think these receive-only devices are doing a huge dis-service to boating by leading people into believing they have AIS when they really don't. Tons and tons of people are checking "AIS" off their list because they can see the few boats that are transmitting, and now will never be visible to the rest of us. This seriously erodes the value of AIS, and slows it's full adoption.

I agree completely!

Except Furuno NaveNet 3D systems. They don't accept AIS via N2K, nor do they re-broadcast their proprietary AIS on N2K so other devices can use it.

Yep, and so I had to buy the Furuno unit.

But...

Its nice to have easy integration of components into your main helm displays.

I do not know how other systems work but with furuno AIS targets appear right on your chart plotter displays, with heading lines emenating from them.

Very nice, easy. I like easy.

 

[ksanders]

I disagree with twistedtree. The real question you need to answer(and what psneeld is getting at) is what is AIS for? What is it's purpose? It's purpose is NOT for traffic/collision avoidance.

I disagree. AIS is a fantastic collision avoidance system.

Radar is great for open water, but near land masses the signal gets blocked.

I see this often where we boat. There will be a large tourist boat, just around the corner and you cannot see them on Radar. With AIS they know you are there, and you know they are there, allowing time to manuver, or make radio contact and decide on a passing schema.

The same thing applies in a crowded area, and the larger the boat the more important this is.

Yes, on my radar I can see targets. But it takes time for the eye to recognize target vectors. Ais provides that. I can see targets, and my chart plotter automatically draws its vector of travel so that I can visually see if there is a conflict.

And yes, echo trails kinda do the same thing, but echo trails see the history, AIS sees the future, and the future is what I'm concerned about.

Oh, and ther identification part is great too! If nothing more than for radio calls.

Instead of...

"pleasure craft off of beacon rock, this is MV Lisas Way"

We get....

"Seaside Charters this is MV Lisas Way, yould you like a port or a starboard passing today sir"

 

[twistedtree]

I disagree with twistedtree. The real question you need to answer(and what psneeld is getting at) is what is AIS for? What is it's purpose? It's purpose is NOT for traffic/collision avoidance. Like was said above, there is no substitute for radar. If you think it is for collision avoidance, then you are being lulled into a false sense of security. Sure it can aid in knowing the movement of vessels. But it's primary purpose is right there in the name.....IDENTIFICATION!

With all respect, I have to disagree too.

First, I never ever said that AIS is in any way the only tool one should use for navigation. I said (in a number of different ways) that it's another tool. Something that can be used in addition to other tools.

And I think it's absolutely about navigation and collision avoidance - otherwise why report anything other than the ships name and call sign?