Which Class B AIS do you have?

[SteveH]

I recently installed the Camino 101 class B AIS.
Welcome to Milltech Marine - your AIS experts
It's connected directly to the E-120 Classic via the NMEA 183 connection and integrates to the E-80 Classic via SeaTalk.

Works good.

SteveH

 

[Alex F]

I recently installed the Camino 101 class B AIS.
Welcome to Milltech Marine - your AIS experts
It's connected directly to the E-120 Classic via the NMEA 183 connection and integrates to the E-80 Classic via SeaTalk.

Works good.

SteveH

That's great to hear, Steve.

I looked in to the unit and wasn't 100% clear regarding the antenna. I see that it has no built-in antenna, but they say it takes external via NMEA0183. Does this mean that when you connect the AIS unit to the MFD via NMEA0183 it gets the antenna input from the MFD? Am I missing something?

Also, they claim to have good PC software. Have you tried it? Is it good and user friendly?

 

[SteveH]

I bought a separate GPS and VHF antennas that plug directly into the back of the Camino 101.
MA-700 GPS Antenna with TNC Connector

http://www.milltechmarine.com/VHF-Whip-Antenna-with-PL259-Connector_p_137.html

As I understand it, there is a way to use your already existing GPS antenna but seemed problematic with regard to NMEA connections so this was in my opinion a better way to go. Stand alone.

As for PC software, yes a CD does come with it and allows you to adjust settings..... unfortunately no support Apple format which I use, so I'm not too sure to what extent. The good people at Milltech Marine in Port Orchard WA set mine up for me.

SteveH

 

[Alex F]

I'm reading on another board discussions on screen cluttering and target filtering. What is your experience, guys?

I don't know if there was a dedicated thread on this topic. If not, can it be discussed here?

 

[twistedtree]

I believe the AIS spec calls for a dedicated GPS as part of the AIS device. With most the receiver is internal and you connect an external antenna that looks pretty much the same as a stand-alone GPS, but isn't. You can't for example, feed your ships GPS data to the AIS - it needs to be a separate source. At least to be compliant it does.

As for screen clutter, I think that's complete BS parroted by people who have never actually use AIS. If your chart plotter display were "cluttered" with rocks surrounding you, would you "turn some of them off" to reduce clutter? Of course not. It's preposterous to even consider. They show up because you should be paying attention to them. Likewise, if you are surrounded by AIS targets, you need to pay attention to them, not selectively ignore them.

One myth I've heard is that "professionals" turn off class B targets. I know of no AIS device that can filter that way. I think its total BS. What they almost all CAN do is ignore targets that aren't moving, and ignore targets that are more than a certain distance away from you. Both of those make perfect sense.

 

[dimer2]

"One myth I've heard is that "professionals" turn off class B targets. I know of no AIS device that can filter that way. I think its total BS. What they almost all CAN do is ignore targets that aren't moving, and ignore targets that are more than a certain distance away from you. Both of those make perfect sense.[/QUOTE]"

The following is copied from the Panbo site, written by Furuno tech. They have discussed this topic extensively and is easily pulled from the archives. I have no idea how accurate it is.

The problem may arise where the Class B Filtering is left on at sea unintentionally or intentionally. Then alarm conditions could be set too close to avoid an allision. I have seen the alarm conditions on our previous products and competitor's products intentionally set low because of too frequent AIS alarming conditions. On our newer products, as well as Navnet 3D, we added some unique filtering capabilities which were actually requested by the Washington State Ferries for their Furuno ARPA Radars. One of these features allows the AIS alarm to be ignored if monitored targets are slower than a certain speed (The default is 0.0 knots). This is so that anchored/moored vessels don't cause an alarm condition. I feel that if these kinds of advanced AIS Alarm Filtering are not considered and implemented, it is very likely that operators will either turn off the alarm features or make the parameters so low that allisions will be impossible to avoid. I have witnessed very high frequency of AIS Alarm conditions if advanced filtering is not utilized and I have been asked by Crew members to disable AIS alarms because they didn't want to be bothered!! Posted by: Furuno Tech - See more at: http://www.panbo.com/

 

[ksanders]

I believe the AIS spec calls for a dedicated GPS as part of the AIS device. With most the receiver is internal and you connect an external antenna that looks pretty much the same as a stand-alone GPS, but isn't. You can't for example, feed your ships GPS data to the AIS - it needs to be a separate source. At least to be compliant it does.
than a certain distance away

I always wondered why my Furuno AIS has a separate GPS feed.

I saw no technical reason, but compliance is a good reason all in its own.

Thanks!

 

[ranger58sb]

Do you mean a backbone? As long as your chart-plotter is N2k compatible any N2K capable ais will work, although I've been told NN3D won't receive ais data via N2k.

I forget details, but our NN3D does receive AIS data easily enough. Furuno diagrams show the FA-50 physical links can be either Ethernet or RS-422. http://www.furuno.com/en/business_product/pdf/marine/fa50.pdf

-Chris

 

[twistedtree]

I forget details, but our NN3D does receive AIS data easily enough. Furuno diagrams show the FA-50 physical links can be either Ethernet or RS-422. http://www.furuno.com/en/business_product/pdf/marine/fa50.pdf -Chris

Yes, that's correct. Ethernet works, NMEA 0183 works, but not NMEA 2000. They have said they will not fix it, so plan accordingly if you use NN3D.

 

[Alex F]

I'm trying to choose an AIS unit based on the features. One of the puzzles I have is where to display the data. I understand that the simplest way would be just connect it to one of my E-Series Classic displays or to my HS Network Switch, so both MFDs can display the AIS data. However, I have a lot of data on both displays and feel a need for dedicated display to minimize cluttering the screen.

Do you guys think it's a good idea to add an iPad and invest in the WiFi capable AIS Transponder hoping that by running Navionics App to have AIS overlay on it?

 

[N4712]

I'm trying to choose an AIS unit based on the features. One of the puzzles I have is where to display the data. I understand that the simplest way would be just connect it to one of my E-Series Classic displays or to my HS Network Switch, so both MFDs can display the AIS data. However, I have a lot of data on both displays and feel a need for dedicated display to minimize cluttering the screen.

Do you guys think it's a good idea to add an iPad and invest in the WiFi capable AIS Transponder hoping that by running Navionics App to have AIS overlay on it?

I'm not sure if the navionics overlay will overlay the ais data. I find it easier then looking at Vesper app's own display. It can get cluttered if you zoom out (like in picture) but not so much in the close ranges.

 

[Alex F]

So far I find that Vesper Marine WatchMate Vision has everything I need. The problem is that my helm is not setup for more than two MFDs. I would need to have a Pod installed with 3rd display and I'm not really sure about the looks and the expense. As I recall a Pod alone could run in $500 range. That's why I was thinking that having iPad (on a seasocker mount) connected via WiFi to AIS would be the easiest approach. I just need to fond out how practical is to have the AIS data displayed on an iPad.

 

[N4712]

So far I find that Vesper Marine WatchMate Vision has everything I need. The problem is that my helm is not setup for more than two MFDs. I would need to have a Pod installed with 3rd display and I'm not really sure about the looks and the expense. As I recall a Pod alone could run in $500 range. That's why I was thinking that having iPad (on a seasocker mount) connected via WiFi to AIS would be the easiest approach. I just need to fond out how practical is to have the AIS data displayed on an iPad.

I don't think it's worth the trouble to get an iPad, just display it on your MFD's.

 

[Alex F]

I don't think it's worth the trouble to get an iPad, just display it on your MFD's.

You might be right. It's just I had another idea behind the approach, which would be having backup for the backup. An iPad would be a 3rd level redundancy stand alone system, just in case if something goes really wrong and I loose my primary and slave MDF.

I've been in situations where while underway one MFD goes blank, but the other one was fine. On one or two occasions I had a situation where both MFDs entered a weird reboot cycle, at that time both were not available for navigation. So, this got me thinking about additional stand alone system.

iPhone with Navionics App is a great Plan C. But, the screen size is just too small. So, that's where the idea of adding an iPad to the mix came to mind.


The biggest challenge for me is to choose a unit, b/c based on the overall installation approach I need to choose a unit to support necessary features. E.g. if I go with iPad route, then I need WiFi capable AIS, which of course is more money. Otherwise, I can go with much simpler unit for less money.

Ah......decisions, decisions.......

 

[twistedtree]

Personally, I would overlay the AIS on the chart plotter. To me, that's where the advantage of AIS really shines through - namely seeing everything (chart, your boat's position and heading, AIS targets, radar targets, nav aids, and landmarks/features) together and in context. Placing AIS targets on a separate screen reduces "clutter", but you lose the relationship between those targets and everything else. To me, the whole concept of reducing clutter is counter productive. The more "clutter" there is, the more things there are that you need to pay attention to, and the more important it is that you see it all. If things are too cluttered, zoom in to get a closer look.

 

[Alex F]

Thanks for your opinion. All valid points. It makes sense and I might lean toward that route vs. an iPad.

 

[Bob Cofer]

Triple redundancy? Tried looking out the window? Why not adjust the alarm settings for whatever CPA you are comfortable with and ignore the rest?

 

[Wxx3]

Personally, I would overlay the AIS on the chart plotter. To me, that's where the advantage of AIS really shines through - namely seeing everything (chart, your boat's position and heading, AIS targets, radar targets, nav aids, and landmarks/features) together and in context. Placing AIS targets on a separate screen reduces "clutter", but you lose the relationship between those targets and everything else. To me, the whole concept of reducing clutter is counter productive. The more "clutter" there is, the more things there are that you need to pay attention to, and the more important it is that you see it all. If things are too cluttered, zoom in to get a closer look.

Totally agree. Clutter is good.

I'm going to export my ais (when i get it) to both my current raymarine e 80 mfd and the new chart plotter screen run by coastal explorer.

On a related note, for a combo vhf/ais attenda? Good idea or keep them separate? THis is asked bc I think I have a problem with my current attenda in any case.

 

[Alex F]

Triple redundancy? Tried looking out the window...

Have you tried it in the middle of the night or in a heavy fug and/or heavy rain?

 

[millennium]

Or around a bend in the canal.

 

[twistedtree]

On a related note, for a combo vhf/ais attenda? Good idea or keep them separate? THis is asked bc I think I have a problem with my current attenda in any case.

I prefer separate antennas. Not having a combiner box is one less thing to buy and one less thing to go wrong. And separate antennas helps ensure that a problem with one system doesn't impact the other system. It's more work to install, but you only have to do it once and it's done. Separate antennas might be more expensive too if the antenna combiner is built into the AIS unit or otherwise included, but an antenna isn't that expensive to begin with, so I think the cost difference shouldn't be a huge deciding factor.

 

[Billylll]

I have been using a NAVICO AIS Class B NMEA2000 transponder with my Garmin MFD's and Garmin VHF200 radios for at least 4 years. I like the way it integrates and works very well for a total integrated package. I have noticed the number of transponder equipped vessels is growing every year. When used in conjunction with Radar it sees around corners where the Radar doesn't. As far as the clutter debate I have never been ignored by a large mandatory Class A vessel when I have hailed them.
I wish more vessels were equipped with transponders. I don't count on the AIS to see targets that are not equipped with it, but the vessels that are equipped make cruising and identification a breeze.
I prefer seperate antennas for the VHF radios and the AIS. In fact I use an AIS antenna specifically tuned for AIS.
Bill