|
09-19-2013, 06:48 AM
|
#1
|
Guru
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,034
|
Circuit breaker question
The main circuit breaker on my 120 volt panel is toast I believe.
I have an older Taiwan trawler, 120 V 30 amp going to the boat. The main breaker is a double breaker, 2 singles riveted together with a single switch poking thru the panel.
My question is do I need a double or can I use a single breaker of 30 amps?
Current breaker trips randomly after being on for a while so I am thinking the contacts are shot. It is an Airpax and I am just starting to do a search for one. What I can read on the label says 220 V 50/60 Hz, 60 amps and I can't read the delay time.
Thanks in advance.
Jay
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
|
|
|
09-19-2013, 07:44 AM
|
#2
|
Veteran Member
City: Wausau,WI
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 54
|
Single breaker = 110V
Double breaker = 220V (110*2)
You have 2 wires coming into the panel, you need a breaker for each leg, hence the double breaker. Half of your double breaker might be getting weak - they are mechanical and they do wear.
You might also be overloading one leg - you need to make sure your load is balanced across both 110v legs
|
|
|
09-19-2013, 07:58 AM
|
#3
|
Guru
City: Seabrook Texas
Vessel Name: TheVenture
Vessel Model: 1985 Bestway Labelle Sundeck 40ft
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 560
|
On a marine shore line you are required to interrupt the neutral as well as the hot. You must go back with the double breaker.
|
|
|
09-19-2013, 01:28 PM
|
#4
|
Guru
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,034
|
Thanks for the replies. I see why there are two legs now.
Yes I believe only one leg is weak. When it trips, I still get a reading on the panel meter (top breaker) yet there is no power to the circuits (bottom breaker).
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
|
|
|
09-20-2013, 05:14 AM
|
#5
|
Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
|
IT is good practice to use a double breaker on the first on board breaker after the power inlet..Black and White wires break , never Green Ground wire.
This will protect the boat even IF the polarity is reversed coming on board .
|
|
|
09-20-2013, 06:27 AM
|
#6
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
|
I have seen 2 single breakers used and a tie bar...not sure if that's the best way...but it does work and I believe I have read that it meets the rule of breaking hot/neutral satisfactorily.
|
|
|
09-20-2013, 06:36 AM
|
#7
|
Guru
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,034
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
I have seen 2 single breakers used and a tie bar...not sure if that's the best way...but it does work and I believe I have read that it meets the rule of breaking hot/neutral satisfactorily.
|
What I have found so far all have tie bars. Mine only has a switch on the top breaker. I'll have to cobble up the panel to fit a tie bar breaker. I can doi that but it's not my first choice.
Luckily I have all winter to find an exact replacement.
Maybe I'll take mine apart and see what makes it tick. I worked at GE for a short while supporting a circuit breaker manufacturing plant so I'm dying to cut it open.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
|
|
|
09-20-2013, 06:51 AM
|
#8
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
|
|
|
|
09-20-2013, 11:14 AM
|
#9
|
Guru
City: Everett Wa
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
|
The ABYC also recommends a double throw breaker between the shore power plug and the main select switch to protect the switch whish is the cause of many electrical fires. Double pole is advised incase the polarity is switch so the break will still be thrown. We had an insruace survey and the electrric was the first and primary he looked at.
|
|
|
09-20-2013, 11:59 AM
|
#10
|
Veteran Member
City: Wausau,WI
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 54
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
|
If the breaker truly is one of these types, the reversed polarity trip coil will add another thing to check.
Someone please keep correcting me if I'm wrong on this. (my newbie boating electrical knowledge was evident in my last post)
The only thing available with to reference for reversed polarity with AC current would be checking voltage across a shunt between the neutral and ground legs. According to the specs, if there is more than 65vac potential across the neutral (white) and ground (green) legs, the breaker will trip.
|
|
|
09-20-2013, 12:32 PM
|
#11
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by theran5317
If the breaker truly is one of these types, the reversed polarity trip coil will add another thing to check.
Someone please keep correcting me if I'm wrong on this. (my newbie boating electrical knowledge was evident in my last post)
The only thing available with to reference for reversed polarity with AC current would be checking voltage across a shunt between the neutral and ground legs. According to the specs, if there is more than 65vac potential across the neutral (white) and ground (green) legs, the breaker will trip.
|
If you have reverse polarity (in it's simplest form) the neutral has been wired for hot and a voltmeter from neutral to ground will just show 110 or whatever the dock is carrying....
Many reverse polarity lights are nothing more than a 120V light wired directly between the neutral leg and ground bus bar.
|
|
|
09-20-2013, 03:21 PM
|
#12
|
Guru
City: Everett Wa
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
|
Not sure if a solution but if you have double throw breaker with a polarity light before the switch, you could go with a single after the main panel selector switch. I installed the new double throw with polarity light next to the shore power out let under the helm as there was no room/space in the panel. I think that would be better than a double after the switch. Any ABYC says before the main selector switch to protect. Just a thought. Might want to ask a marine electrician to be sure.
|
|
|
09-21-2013, 06:26 AM
|
#13
|
Guru
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,034
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
|
I think this is exactly what I need. THANKS
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
|
|
|
10-03-2013, 02:20 PM
|
#14
|
Guru
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,034
|
As a follow up....
I received the Paneltronics breaker that Scott suggested. Fit well but I had to file the sides of the hole with a small square file because the switch needed room to swing.
Other than that looks fine.
I'll know sometime next summer if this was the problem.
I did take the old breaker apart and the contact was down to a single point and looked a little arced. Hopefully that was the issue, causing it to heat up and open.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
|
|
|
10-08-2013, 05:32 AM
|
#15
|
Newbie
City: OC
Vessel Model: American Marine/ GB32 '67
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3
|
Circuit breakers do wear out. There are a few different types. I'm guessing the marine panel you got is from the family that that has switch like durability.
Gotta keep the mains a twin breaker. Reversed polarity AC is indistinguishable in operation (polarized refers to the plug, not the electricity), but is a shock hazard when a corroded internal wire falls onto the metal case of a two prong appliance. Scenario: a toaster gets plugged in and does not work because of corroded wires. User has revered polarity shore power and a single 30 A panel board (wired like a house). User shakes appliance and gets electrocuted.
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Trawler Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|