cheap idea for a bilge pump switch

[sdowney717]

Top Liquid Water Level Sensor Right Angle Float Switch | eBay

Bought 2 of these right angled ones. You can also get straights.

Frankly speaking, I am tired of buying bilge pump switches. Just recently found one that is sticking on. If I lift float, it no longer drops.

These magnetic reed switch, I plan to connect to a couple 40 amp Bosch relays to power two 3700 Rule pumps. I just need an angled bracket.

I already power on the pumps using a relay, so this magnetic switch will act just like my manual switch.

I thought about straight inline switches. Maybe could be mounted inside an inverted cup for more protection. My current switches are all open float. I have 5 bilge pumps and all use your typical float switch.

This Ebay switch is sealed up waterproof. The float has a magnet that rips the switch. A Bosch relay takes 160 milliamps or less to energize it's coil. So easily this switch will power a relay.

 

[caltexflanc]

Good luck!

I'd have to say personally that is one item I would never try to go cheap on myself. Bought myself Ultra Pumpswitches and never looked back.

 

[BruceK]

Good luck!

I'd have to say personally that is one item I would never try to go cheap on myself. Bought myself Ultra Pumpswitches and never looked back.

Conventional flipper switches are not necessarily cheap, but they are troublesome. I also fitted the Ultra, no problem since.
There was a thread about these a while back, worth a search. A non electrical switch involving water rising in a tube I think was mentioned and made sense. Unavailable commercially here,so I dismissed it as likely to bother insurers in the event of trouble.

 

[sdowney717]

ASFAIK that ultra switch is also a sealed magnetic trigger switch except it has a higher amp rating to work the pump directly instead of using a relay.
That type switch just makes sense to me for this type thing.

 

[Bruce B]

I've had a few Ultra Safety System pump switch failures in 20 years of boating but I do believe they are the best switches available.
Guy who owns the company is a little cranky though...
Bruce

 

[AusCan]

I've come to the conclusion that the main bilge pump will always fail when you need it most. If not the switch failing, then the pump, or the wiring, or skin fitting or hose, or a blockage.

I went with a backup pump & switch located slightly higher, along with alarm, separate wiring, separate battery bank & separate plumbing. It sits high and dry and clean waiting to be called into action.

 

[FlyWright]

Is it possible to sire this switch in parallel with a standard float switch so that you get the first response from the first switch sensing the water? I understand that this wouldn't solve the "stuck on" float switch problem, but it might be an improvement on the "didn't some on" problem.

 

[FF]

Since the mercury never wears out it might be simple to redo a mechanical switch to have mercury contacts.

Never tried it tho.

 

[psneeld]

Field effect Johnson pump Ultima switches.

Put one in my shower sump on a liveaboard....no issues yet....but then again the cheap float switch lasted 2.5 years....

 

[HopCar]

717, it looks like those switches turn on and off at the same point. That could make a bilge pump cycle very quickly. Bilge pump switches usually have about a 2" difference between turning on and off.

FF, bilge switches used to come with mercury switches. Your right the Mercury switches themselves never failed but the wires connected to them did. Every time the switch rose and fell it twisted the wires and they eventually broke.

 

[HopCar]

Bruce, I'm not sure what you mean by non electrical but both Groco and Jabsco make bilge switches that use air pressure in a tube to activate the switch which is mounted well above the water.

 

[FF]

"Every time the switch rose and fell it twisted the wires and they eventually broke."

Sounds like an extra inch of wire in a loop might have worked , but would have cost more.

 

[DHeckrotte]

Does anybody (else) like the electronic internal switches and pump that Rule makes? I currently have only one bilge pump, a Rule with a paddle switch, and a similar arrangement in the adjacent shower sump. I guess that counts as two, sort of. Won't be that way for long.

 

[sdowney717]

717, it looks like those switches turn on and off at the same point. That could make a bilge pump cycle very quickly. Bilge pump switches usually have about a 2" difference between turning on and off.

FF, bilge switches used to come with mercury switches. Your right the Mercury switches themselves never failed but the wires connected to them did. Every time the switch rose and fell it twisted the wires and they eventually broke.

I know what your saying about the range of float motion to on - off.
The 2 Rule 3700's are both emergency bilge pumps. They never come on normally.
I have a Rule 2000 forward of these two 3700 that is the main pump with a typical Rule switch. When the float switches come in, I will post back about how they function as to how tight they are on and off. They are designed for pumps to maintain a water level, so maybe they will work ok and not quick cycle. Also if they are pumping a large flat expanse of water, that would help limit that quick cycling too, which I tend to have, pump is not in a deep sailboat type space..

I may even have an old broken covered pump switch. This Ebay switch could be mounted into that by drilling a hole in the side.

I was thinking I need to replace the switch, cause if it did come on, then it would never turn off and that pump would drain the battery, and wear out the pump and it might be stiff enough that it would not lift up and so never tiun on. I think there is a rubber shaft seal that swells up do to trace amounts of oils in the water. The failed switch was a non mercury type 'seachoice-seaflow' switch, with wires coming out the top back part. It is about 4 yrs old.

 

[sdowney717]

I got the switches today.
They do have a range so they will not quick cycle on-off.
They feel rather strong and durable, look good.
Both function the same. The little float has plenty of side clearance.

I think a SS sheet metal angle bracket is what I will use for mounting..

 

[Lepke]

Remember that cheap switch could be the difference between your boat floating and sinking when you're not aboard.
I've been on the ocean since I was 7 and am 68 now. I've been aboard at least dozens of ships and boats. It doesn't make me an expert, but experienced. 30 years ago, most of the bilge pumps and switches were reliable for at least several years. I don't see that anymore. Most appear to be built in the same Chinese factory, but with different decals.
I have a boat with 5 WT bulkheads and 6 bilge areas-wood hull, but doesn't leak. The water I pump is from the rare hose/plumbing leak or wash downs. Except for Lovett, I have yet to find a current pump/switch or shower sump that lasts 2 years.
The only 100% reliable switch has been the float in a tube type. I have tried most brands but am replacing all with Lovett as the current ones fail.
I've never had a Lovett fail. One in a commercial boat was old when I bought the boat and much older when the boat was sold. Maybe 40 years.
Mercury switches worked good, but it must somehow be better to have all these junk pumps and switches in a landfill.

 

[alberto]

I agree
I installed 8 years ago an electronic one.
No movable parts, so no sticking.
One advantage is that it takes some time to activate and deactivate thus not activating with water moving in the bilge as your boat moves.
I think is one of the most important safety components in a boat, and to be connected properly to a buzzer

 

[rwidman]

Since the mercury never wears out it might be simple to redo a mechanical switch to have mercury contacts.

Never tried it tho.

The best float switches ever made used mercury switches to turn the pump on and off.

The government outlawed them and they haven't been made for years. I used to have some but they are gone now.

 

[rwidman]

"Every time the switch rose and fell it twisted the wires and they eventually broke."

Sounds like an extra inch of wire in a loop might have worked , but would have cost more.

Ultra flexible wire like that used in telephone cords (remember those) or loudspeaker coil to cone connections would last for eons. It consists of many fine strands of wire braided over a cloth core.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Does anybody (else) like the electronic internal switches and pump that Rule makes?

I for one do not like them.

Ultra switches are all I use.

 

[sdowney717]

This switch I am going to use for the emergency pump switch. I cleaned the existing standard type switch but it still is sticking on. So normally this switch will be above any standing water.

I looked at how the wire end seals into the plastic body, They used a white hard plastic like epoxy seal.
A failure could happen if that seal fails although it looks good. This switch is not flimsy or weak feeling.

I will add a little soft sealer to end where wire enters the switch just in case. And also use a bit of heat shrink tubing on the wires.

Plastic nut has a rubber seal, so it was designed to seal into a container with wires on the dry side.

I can mount the switch, then run heat shrink up over the threads and down onto the wires. and have some silicon gasket maker in between.

I have had Rule mercury switches fail in the wire. Somehow water got under the outer rubber covering and disintegrated the copper.

 

[sdowney717]

It works fine, got it installed yesterday the new reed switch.


I sealed up the wires to the reed switch and pulled the cube relay apart out of its case and put sealer on to keep it dry. Plan to put marine grease in the wiring plug. Used Loctite S30 polyurethane roof and flashing to seal this.

I am using that SS sheet metal to hold the switch.

This is an emergency type pump incase other pumps fail, and eventually plan to raise it up higher.

Power comes in on red wire shared to reed switch connected to green wire which grounds relay coil when water rises and lifts float.
The relay takes place of the original failed switch.

I imagine this could fail if some dirty sticky stuff gets stuck on the reed switch float. Although float has lots of side clearance
It has a plastic c-clip so can be removed and cleaned off.

Range is 1/4 inch on the switch, so turn it on, it is on till it drops 1/4 - 3/8 inch, it works fine in the water space it is in.

I put in a freewheel diode to protect the switch. Good explanation and shows small switches application.

https://reference.digilentinc.com/le...k-diodes/start
What is a Flyback Diode?

It looks like the diode is reverse biased on the install, so cathode goes to the positive side of the coil. Diode shorts the induced current spike coming from the relay coil when it turns off due to magnetic field collapsing when power to coil turns off.

Got the reverse biased flywheel diode 1N5819 cathode towards positive across the coil
http://www.diodes.com/_files/datasheets/ds23001.pdf
Sealed in hot glue, it fit into the center hole of the plug, and I put a band of heat shrink to hold the two wires secure.

 

[Rebel112r]

I had a Johnson Ultima switch in my shower sump fail, last summer. It was about 2 years old. Had to revert to wiring pump direct to 12 v and then switching on at panel, when shower in use.

 

[sdowney717]

I had a Johnson Ultima switch in my shower sump fail, last summer. It was about 2 years old. Had to revert to wiring pump direct to 12 v and then switching on at panel, when shower in use.

Ultra uses a reed switch with a 3/4" differential and a sealed 40 amp relay.
A free floating unhinged float is better than hinged I think.

One improvement I could make is to enclose the switch in a box with small openings for water flow. That would limit the effect of splashing water on the float. Having an old failed switch with the covered housing would be ideal, remove failed guts, drill a side hole and mount reed switch inside.

I have this mounted up high out of the water and it runs a Rule 3700 for emergency type pumping. I sealed the yellow wires in heat shrink tubing, and reinforced the end at the switch. And sealed it in a layer of Loctite s30. Switch is already sealed, but I make more certain and strengthened the wires.

 

[psneeld]

My Johnson Ultima switches I believe are solid state field effect types.

 

[kev_rm]

I have four pumps, three are on their own switches, plus a high water alarm using the johnson solid state switch. Sleeping comfortably.

 

[diver dave]

Field effect Johnson pump Ultima switches.

Put one in my shower sump on a liveaboard....no issues yet....but then again the cheap float switch lasted 2.5 years....

Mine lasted a year; looked the same.

It was an electronic defect.

Also, on all the mechanical types. Eventually, mine got taken out by "oily hair". That's a real mean test for things trying to move in the bilge, using light forces.
Almost as bad as a black water tank level switch. The things that tend to work well in these environments are ultrasonic level sensors and sensitive pressure switches, if you can keep the pickup tube from clogging.

Anyone remember the old time manually pumped system for level measurement? Tank Tender?

 

[Pieyed47]

I for one do not like them.

Ultra switches are all I use.

Has anyone used this type of switch?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_switch

https://www.amazon.com/Float-Switch-Cable-Water-Sump/dp/B00KUR867W

 

[rwidman]

I find it odd that so many people seem to have float switch failures. The only failure I ever had was on my previous boat and it was a hall effect switch in a shower sump that was hardly ever used.

I did have an actual bilge pump failure where the pump ran fine but the plastic impeller fell off the shaft. Fortunately, I noticed it when cleaning the bilge, not at sea under emergency conditions. I've often wondered why so many boaters claim they would never leave the dock without a radio check when so few boaters actually test to see if their bilge pumps actually pump water out of the bilge.

For anyone with serious worries about float switch failures, the simple answer is to install one or more additional switches in parallel with the original. If one fails, another will run the pump.

 

[sdowney717]

I find it odd that so many people seem to have float switch failures. The only failure I ever had was on my previous boat and it was a hall effect switch in a shower sump that was hardly ever used.

I did have an actual bilge pump failure where the pump ran fine but the plastic impeller fell off the shaft. Fortunately, I noticed it when cleaning the bilge, not at sea under emergency conditions. I've often wondered why so many boaters claim they would never leave the dock without a radio check when so few boaters actually test to see if their bilge pumps actually pump water out of the bilge.

For anyone with serious worries about float switch failures, the simple answer is to install one or more additional switches in parallel with the original. If one fails, another will run the pump.

Good, unless the failure is it sticks on. This last one did, float goes up and stayed up.