Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-11-2016, 11:05 AM   #21
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
This switch I am going to use for the emergency pump switch. I cleaned the existing standard type switch but it still is sticking on. So normally this switch will be above any standing water.

I looked at how the wire end seals into the plastic body, They used a white hard plastic like epoxy seal.
A failure could happen if that seal fails although it looks good. This switch is not flimsy or weak feeling.

I will add a little soft sealer to end where wire enters the switch just in case. And also use a bit of heat shrink tubing on the wires.

Plastic nut has a rubber seal, so it was designed to seal into a container with wires on the dry side.

I can mount the switch, then run heat shrink up over the threads and down onto the wires. and have some silicon gasket maker in between.

I have had Rule mercury switches fail in the wire. Somehow water got under the outer rubber covering and disintegrated the copper.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	white switch.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	54.0 KB
ID:	55141  
__________________
Advertisement

sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2017, 05:03 AM   #22
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
It works fine, got it installed yesterday the new reed switch.


I sealed up the wires to the reed switch and pulled the cube relay apart out of its case and put sealer on to keep it dry. Plan to put marine grease in the wiring plug. Used Loctite S30 polyurethane roof and flashing to seal this.

I am using that SS sheet metal to hold the switch.

This is an emergency type pump incase other pumps fail, and eventually plan to raise it up higher.

Power comes in on red wire shared to reed switch connected to green wire which grounds relay coil when water rises and lifts float.
The relay takes place of the original failed switch.

I imagine this could fail if some dirty sticky stuff gets stuck on the reed switch float. Although float has lots of side clearance
It has a plastic c-clip so can be removed and cleaned off.

Range is 1/4 inch on the switch, so turn it on, it is on till it drops 1/4 - 3/8 inch, it works fine in the water space it is in.



I put in a freewheel diode to protect the switch. Good explanation and shows small switches application.

https://reference.digilentinc.com/le...k-diodes/start
What is a Flyback Diode?

It looks like the diode is reverse biased on the install, so cathode goes to the positive side of the coil. Diode shorts the induced current spike coming from the relay coil when it turns off due to magnetic field collapsing when power to coil turns off.

Got the reverse biased flywheel diode 1N5819 cathode towards positive across the coil
http://www.diodes.com/_files/datasheets/ds23001.pdf
Sealed in hot glue, it fit into the center hole of the plug, and I put a band of heat shrink to hold the two wires secure.

__________________

sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2017, 08:22 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Rebel112r's Avatar
 
City: Birch bay wa
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Rogue
Vessel Model: North Pacific 42
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 290
I had a Johnson Ultima switch in my shower sump fail, last summer. It was about 2 years old. Had to revert to wiring pump direct to 12 v and then switching on at panel, when shower in use.
Rebel112r is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2017, 10:03 AM   #24
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel112r View Post
I had a Johnson Ultima switch in my shower sump fail, last summer. It was about 2 years old. Had to revert to wiring pump direct to 12 v and then switching on at panel, when shower in use.
Ultra uses a reed switch with a 3/4" differential and a sealed 40 amp relay.
A free floating unhinged float is better than hinged I think.

One improvement I could make is to enclose the switch in a box with small openings for water flow. That would limit the effect of splashing water on the float. Having an old failed switch with the covered housing would be ideal, remove failed guts, drill a side hole and mount reed switch inside.

I have this mounted up high out of the water and it runs a Rule 3700 for emergency type pumping. I sealed the yellow wires in heat shrink tubing, and reinforced the end at the switch. And sealed it in a layer of Loctite s30. Switch is already sealed, but I make more certain and strengthened the wires.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2017, 11:05 AM   #25
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,896
My Johnson Ultima switches I believe are solid state field effect types.
Attached Images
 
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2017, 12:49 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
City: Wherever the boat is
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Silver Quarter
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 243
I have four pumps, three are on their own switches, plus a high water alarm using the johnson solid state switch. Sleeping comfortably.
kev_rm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 11:59 AM   #27
Veteran Member
 
City: Fairport
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Field effect Johnson pump Ultima switches.

Put one in my shower sump on a liveaboard....no issues yet....but then again the cheap float switch lasted 2.5 years....

Mine lasted a year; looked the same.

It was an electronic defect.

Also, on all the mechanical types. Eventually, mine got taken out by "oily hair". That's a real mean test for things trying to move in the bilge, using light forces.
Almost as bad as a black water tank level switch. The things that tend to work well in these environments are ultrasonic level sensors and sensitive pressure switches, if you can keep the pickup tube from clogging.

Anyone remember the old time manually pumped system for level measurement? Tank Tender?
diver dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 02:18 PM   #28
Member
 
City: Compton
Country: United States
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
I for one do not like them.

Ultra switches are all I use.
Has anyone used this type of switch?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_switch

https://www.amazon.com/Float-Switch-.../dp/B00KUR867W
Pieyed47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 02:45 PM   #29
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,483
I find it odd that so many people seem to have float switch failures. The only failure I ever had was on my previous boat and it was a hall effect switch in a shower sump that was hardly ever used.

I did have an actual bilge pump failure where the pump ran fine but the plastic impeller fell off the shaft. Fortunately, I noticed it when cleaning the bilge, not at sea under emergency conditions. I've often wondered why so many boaters claim they would never leave the dock without a radio check when so few boaters actually test to see if their bilge pumps actually pump water out of the bilge.

For anyone with serious worries about float switch failures, the simple answer is to install one or more additional switches in parallel with the original. If one fails, another will run the pump.
WesK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 02:52 PM   #30
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
I find it odd that so many people seem to have float switch failures. The only failure I ever had was on my previous boat and it was a hall effect switch in a shower sump that was hardly ever used.

I did have an actual bilge pump failure where the pump ran fine but the plastic impeller fell off the shaft. Fortunately, I noticed it when cleaning the bilge, not at sea under emergency conditions. I've often wondered why so many boaters claim they would never leave the dock without a radio check when so few boaters actually test to see if their bilge pumps actually pump water out of the bilge.

For anyone with serious worries about float switch failures, the simple answer is to install one or more additional switches in parallel with the original. If one fails, another will run the pump.
Good, unless the failure is it sticks on. This last one did, float goes up and stayed up.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 02:57 PM   #31
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Good, unless the failure is it sticks on. This last one did, float goes up and stayed up.
If we have to have failures, we would rather they fail in "safe mode". Your failure might have been rough on the batteries or the pump itself, but it didn't put the boat in danger.

I would look into why it failed to return to the down or "off" position and my guess is that some debris in the bilge got caught in the switch.
WesK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 03:02 PM   #32
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Good, unless the failure is it sticks on. This last one did, float goes up and stayed up.
Had that issue with the assistance tow boat. Had to use a boat hook to reach up under the engine to knock it down a lot. Thankfully it was easy to hear on the smaller vessel when the engine shut down.

The was a few years back around 2005 that the cheap rule float switches had an astonishing failure rate. We went through dozens at the company...I had a couple fail, the internet was buzzing with the same info.

Not sure which years but it spanned a few and seems to have died off. Something got a little better...had to....between the float switches and burning pumps...Rule had become a dity word around a lot of boaters I knew.


So I can see where people are interested in inventing a better, cheaper mouse trap. Have kicked around a few ideas myself...but I just adjusted to off the shelf stuff as it has evolved as fast as mine either have failed or I needed to add one.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 03:14 PM   #33
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
If we have to have failures, we would rather they fail in "safe mode". Your failure might have been rough on the batteries or the pump itself, but it didn't put the boat in danger.

I would look into why it failed to return to the down or "off" position and my guess is that some debris in the bilge got caught in the switch.
I did take it apart. There was a metal shaft on a rubber bush, the metal shaft rusted and it became too stiff to move smoothly. the switch was a rule knockoff design, clicked off on on as the float moved, looked like a rule. I did get 5 years out of it. The rule 3700 pump ran for 2 days, but seems fine. It did not get hot. I heard it running when I got to the boat one day. We had a severe snowfall, 1.5 feet, the bilge flooded with melting snow. I have 5 pumps it is possible the bilge may have frozen too as the temps got in low teens for 5 days.

M quess by the 2nd melt day, the switch turned on and I got to the boat 2 days later.

My plan is to raise that pump up so if the bilge freezes, the pump wont be locked in ice.

Interesting that I posted this last july 2016, and the bilge switch never needed to move till the snow storm and deep freeze did force me to actually fix it.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 04:02 PM   #34
Veteran Member
 
City: Fairport
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 64
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
I have tried most brands but am replacing all with Lovett as the current ones fail.
I've never had a Lovett fail. One in a commercial boat was old when I bought the boat and much older when the boat was sold. Maybe 40 years.
Mercury switches worked good, but it must somehow be better to have all these junk pumps and switches in a landfill.
I keep playing the bad guy here.

Anyway, my first Lovett failure was due to a stretched O ring (drive belt).
I was able to replace the o ring and it worked for a few more years. Then, the motor shaft seized. Overall, I will say it lasted a tad longer than the Rule pumps I tend to favor.

There was a time where folks were in love with Mayfair float switches. If you remember it has a metal ball inside the float, and it would roll back and forth. The good part about this is the force, both to float, and to sink, are larger than most of the competition, and so, tended not to get stuck. But, I think the country of origin went wrong there some years ago.
diver dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 04:42 PM   #35
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pieyed47 View Post
Differential is huge.
Maybe the bilge water level has to go real high for it to come on.
Does work well in a sump pump arrangement.


My quess is used as a sump pump switch is infrequent, in a boat the wire would bend to much and eventually break from the flexing, if the boat's bilge gets wet frequently.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 06:10 PM   #36
Ted
Guru
 
Ted's Avatar
 
City: Campbell River
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Okisollo
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 547
In the last year I've had 3 Rule switches (Heavy Duty model) fail.
Two failed to turn on, one failed to turn off. The failures were
internal, not the float sticking up or down.
One of them only lasted 3 or 4 weeks.
The pump is a Rule 2000 running on 32v dc.
This last switch has been working for 5 or 6 months.

Ted
Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 08:09 PM   #37
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,176
I had Rule-a-matic pumps with internal switches fail. They turned on by a level switch and turned off by sensed current flow dropping low. Problem was the pump ran too long and sucked air so the current dropped but not enough to shut off the pump. It would then churn indefinitely until the battery died.
The pumps themselves worked fine with an added Sure-Bail external float switch wired to the manual override wire.
__________________

__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012