Charging At Anchor

[markpierce]

...

Regarding the wind generator, rarely do they make enough power at anchor to justify the cost, annoyance due to sound, vibration that can transmit through the hull.... we had one on our cruise across the pacific and it never did much except at sea.

Thank goodness my temporary neighbor's wind generator is absolutely, guaranteed to be quiet!

 

[O C Diver]

I work in the land of acronyms but don't get this one -- SOC?

State Of Charge is the answer I believe.

Ted

 

[BruceK]

Thank goodness my temporary neighbor's wind generator is absolutely, guaranteed to be quiet!

Midnight visit to epoxy the spinner solid?

 

[markpierce]

Midnight visit to epoxy the spinner solid?

Absolutely! Positively! No need to do that. I was terrified when I first saw that windmill, but haven't heard a sound with its whirling.

 

[FF]

Even the worst boat alt choice, a 1 wire - built in V regulator ,will eventually charge the batts . It should be putting out enough voltage to operate your AP as soon as the engine starts and is above idle.

Certainly even at 1000RPM warm up the voltage should be fine to run the AP.

Sounds like fixing the AP circuit would have the most bang for the buck .

A truck alt 12v 135A (-$150) is happier with dual belts but a single high quality belt will do fine , just wears out faster.

If you install a better alt treat it to a 3 stage regulator too.

SOC meter is State Of Charge , think of of as the gas gauge for your batt bank.

It is also possible that too many deep discharges has reduced the capacity of the batt set by 50% or more . Install the SOC first to find out.

Dead batts are like a black hole and will eat much of the output of a rated 60A car alt with ease.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Bay Pelican has an Airbreeze Wind Generator - small rather quiet unit. In our rather constant trade winds situation it puts out 7 to 12 amps per hour all day. At the diesel prices I pay this provides a 5 year payback on installation costs. More importantly, we can leave the boat for 10 to 14 hours and not worry about running the batteries down.

We are in a sailboat world (Caribbean) where most boats have a wind generator and many have two or more. Noise can be a problem if you buy the wrong unit, but then buying wrong is always a problem on a boat.

Marty

 

[Moonstruck]

I work in the land of acronyms but don't get this one -- SOC?

State of charge

 

[jleonard]

Not sure if you read my other posts. I have a meter and can't run twin belts, but plan on upgrading alternators soon.

If you incorporate a smart regulator (like the Balmar) you can "derate" the alternator a little using the belt manager function , that way you won't need twin belts.

 

[Codger2]

Not sure if you read my other posts. I have a meter and can't run twin belts, but plan on upgrading alternators soon.

Tom: In the FWIW department, I had my old 105 amp alternator rewound (increased the coils) to 140 amps. The only restriction to doing that is the clearance between the alternator's housing & the windings. In my case, I had sufficient clearance to add more windings. It works great and was fewer $$ than buying and mounting (bolt pattern) a new higher amp alt.

 

[Daddyo]

Scott... 3.5KW Genset... Not sure if that makes any difference, but I suppose I could use it for morning coffee too. ;-)

I have plans for a new alternator, but because of the engine and genset placement, I think 100A would be the MAX alternator I could put on because I don't have to room to add a wide belt. It's going to have to stay with a single v-belt alternator. So my options are limited. Still, it is in the plan for next year. I don't trust my Motorola to last much longer. Keep wanting to pull it out and take it in for a rebuild. Just ain't gotten to it yet. ;-)

Big believer in Victron Battery monitor too... I keep it on "I" (amp draw) and watch it every 5 minutes because I have no life :-D

Tom,
I tossed our Motorolas last year and replaced with $105 108A Delcos and couldn't be happier. Replaced the pulleys with smaller ones to spin the alts faster at our slow (1400) rpms. To balance wear on the main bearing and double the charge I added a second alt to one engine. Installed LED volt meters and tossed the shunted amp meters. Batteries are topped within a few hours always.

 

[hollywood8118]

Thank goodness my temporary neighbor's wind generator is absolutely, guaranteed to be quiet!

Does it not have any blades?

:lol:

 

[hollywood8118]

Not sure if you read my other posts. I have a meter and can't run twin belts, but plan on upgrading alternators soon.

Sure I read the post.. when you change out the alternator get a pulley with additional grooves.. you can also at that point look at the ratio and if it isn't optimum size it to give near max output rpm to the alt. at your normal cruise rpm.
Some of the advanced step charge regulators also have the ability to lower the charge output so you can add the big alternator and the reg, then dial down the output so you don't fry the single belt until you get around to changing out the pulley.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[MurrayM]

This thread is right up my alley.

Our electrical needs/demands are very low, but the way we use our boat is abnormal. We use our boat as a base camp for exploring and photographing the beaches, creeks, and forests on BC's north coast. We don't run the boat at cruising speed for hours because sometimes the next interesting spot to explore is right around the corner.

I'm working still, but when retired I can see us staying for days in each anchorage, so fast charging, or charging at a fast idle at anchor is critical.

This is the direction I've been leaning for our 100hp 4JH2-UTE Yanmar that cruises at 2700 rpm, probably with AGM batteries;

Balmar 165 amp AT series alternator
AT-Series Alternators

Altmount serpentine pulley kit
products

Smartgauge battery monitor
smartgauge-layout

I'm about six months ahead of laying out hard cash, so input is greatly appreciated

 

[fryedaze]

This thread is right up my alley.


This is the direction I've been leaning for our 100hp 4JH2-UTE Yanmar that cruises at 2700 rpm, probably with AGM batteries;

Balmar 165 amp AT series alternator
AT-Series Alternators

Altmount serpentine pulley kit
products

Smartgauge battery monitor
smartgauge-layout

I'm about six months ahead of laying out hard cash, so input is greatly appreciated

I am planning to change out my alternators. I have priced the Balmar ATs and I just cant see $1300 for an alternator. Even their cheaper model will set you back $1000. I will need two so the price doubles. I am leaning towards a 100 -120 amp of the shelf alternator in the $200 -$300 range that I can hook up to a smart regulator. Advanced Alternator Regulator

 

[psneeld]

I am planning to change out my alternators. I have priced the Balmar ATs and I just cant see $1300 for an alternator. Even their cheaper model will set you back $1000. I will need two so the price doubles. I am leaning towards a 100 -120 amp of the shelf alternator in the $200 -$300 range that I can hook up to a smart regulator. Advanced Alternator Regulator

Balmar has been having quality control problems if you can believe what you read on these forums.

 

[Tom.B]

I have planned on just going to a truck store (think: heavy equipment) for a new alternator. The Motorola that's on there isn't marine grade any more than the alternator on a dump truck. Also, an alternator in my bilge is far less harsh of an environment than... let's say... in the belly of a school bus. No, this is one of those time a piece of gear "designed for marine use" can be ditched. I'm following Mark's advice on this one.

Then take my current one in for a rebuild.

 

[FF]

Those big, heavy 8D batteries are not really deep cycle batteries and using them as such has cut their capacity to half or less.

8D is a size ., like 9W shoes.

It has zero to do with the TYPE ( deep cycle or start) of battery only where it fits.

 

[Codger2]

Walt, where did you get your system?

I bought my Victron 602s at Shelter Island Marine in San Diego for a couple of reasons. 1) The head sales guy is a friend of mine and 2) I was in a hurry to have one installed. I have since Googled Victron 602s and have found I could have saved a few bucks by buying on line. If you buy one and you have a separate starter battery, Buy the 602S. (The "s" indicates it will display starter battery voltage.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Vic...rg.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-beta

 

[MikeD]

To add a little more to the discussion, another thing to consider with deep cycle batteries is that you never want them to discharge below around 10.5V DC (this will vary slightly with different batteries). This is called the end voltage and if you do discharge below this level then there is a very real chance that you will not be able to recover the battery.

While the battery may still draw current from the charging system it may never get back up to 100% and will give you very unpredictable performance. In some cases it will simply not perform at, giving the impression of a very quick discharge i.e. much quick than previously experienced.

With most of the Battery Monitors they recommend that you set the DOD (depth of discharge) setting to no lower than 50%. This is to prevent the above from happening. Therefore if you are sizing a new battery bank, you should consider this from the beginning.

If your battery monitor is telling you everything else is Ok then ask yourself have you ever discharged below the end voltage. If you have and you are having problems, then you need to consider replacing the batteries.

Note: the above comments are specific to deep cycle batteries.

Mike

 

[psneeld]

To add a little more to the discussion, another thing to consider with deep cycle batteries is that you never want them to discharge below around 10.5V DC (this will vary slightly with different batteries). This is called the end voltage and if you do discharge below this level then there is a very real chance that you will not be able to recover the battery.

While the battery may still draw current from the charging system it may never get back up to 100% and will give you very unpredictable performance. In some cases it will simply not perform at, giving the impression of a very quick discharge i.e. much quick than previously experienced.

With most of the Battery Monitors they recommend that you set the DOD (depth of discharge) setting to no lower than 50%. This is to prevent the above from happening. Therefore if you are sizing a new battery bank, you should consider this from the beginning.

If your battery monitor is telling you everything else is Ok then ask yourself have you ever discharged below the end voltage. If you have and you are having problems, then you need to consider replacing the batteries.

Note: the above comments are specific to deep cycle batteries.

Mike

You say deep cycle but not what chemistry....

If lead acid ....you don't want to discharge below a little over 12.0V...not way down in the 10.5V area....

If you mean that's where they are not recoverable at all...that is one place you never want to be but with a good equalization charger...you may get some life out of them... but as I said, why even go there? Any lead acid battery left below 100 percent charge for any reasonable length of time starts to lose capacity....not just below the 10.5V.

As you say.... don't let them go below 50% discharge...and of course it's resting voltage which is usually a moving target and hard to really determine.

 

[MikeD]

I agree with you. 10.5V is really a no go area and I personally get nervous below 12V.

I had an experience 2 weeks ago where the voltage went down to 11.5V and it has never been there before. Coincidently I had just installed a new diesel heater and was testing it that night. The following night I did the same again and the voltage did not go below 12V.

In this case I think the issue was an end of life issue, i.e. the batteries had a 10 year design life and they were around 10 years old. Consequently I replaced the bank last weekend.

As to chemistry, I have AGM lead acid batteries. The figure of 10.5V is derived from the discharge curve (6 x 1.75V), 1.75V relating to a 20 hour discharge at a rate of 5A for a 100AH battery.

In a past life working with UPS (uninteruptible power supply) systems we would use this curve to size the battery bank. Typically the discharge on the bank would be at a much higher rate than in our boats and at the end of discharge the recharge cycle would be immediate.

Mike

 

[FF]

The Ft Meyers Detroit Diesel dealer had good sized 135?A alts that were built by Leece Neville , which are excellent .

With an excellent hot rating (not an auto boom box rating) they are a deal.

They need an external V regulator so are perfect for using as a marine batt set charger.

These are sold without the front pulley , so purchase one that will fit your existing belt (s?) and in as small a diameter as they can order.

 

[BigJim]

I will add my .02 to the generator Vrs wind power with a few things to consider.

Generators are noisy,smelly, they vibrate, consume fuel and require maintenance for their much higher Amperage output.

Wind generators output much less current, do not smell and do make a peculiar sound.

For me at a remote anchorage I would much prefer the sound of a WG to the sound and smell of an engine generator.

My estimate is that the WG may keep the house bank at or well above 75% of full charge.

My boat will have Propane cooking and Diesel heat.

So the electrical appliances I envision running while at anchor are; cabin, salon LED lighting, VHF, GPS, anchor lights, on demand pumps, alarm and status panels, AHU fan on demand. Well less than 10 Amps per hour. The WG could easily make this up.

The generator would be used to put a hard charge on the batteries as required.

/Flame on?

 

[CaptTom]

BigJim, no flame from this direction, your solution works for you, and probably many others.

My genset is almost inaudible outside the boat. The guy moored next to me (maybe 50' away) one morning didn't start his genset because he thought I might still be sleeping. Mine was already running (because I'd seen him up on deck and knew HE wasn't sleeping) but he didn't even hear it. And it was a very quiet mooring field, just those two boats in it. I've also run it at the dock, and stood directly behind the boat at the opposite dock, and it's barely audible over normal background noises.

Some people may find the sound of the wind generator more annoying than my genset. Personally, they don't bother me.

For me, the big power draw is refrigeration. I don't really want to go the ice box route, that's more of a backup option for me. I don't think a WG can supply enough power for that, unless it's a small fridge. We like ice cream and frozen drinks though.

Running the genset once or twice a day for an hour or so is plenty to recharge normal usage if I'm not running the mains much. On a trip with long runs between overnight anchorages, I'd never really need the genset.

 

[Northern Spy]

I will add my .02 to the generator Vrs wind power with a few things to consider.

Generators are noisy,smelly, they vibrate, consume fuel and require maintenance for their much higher Amperage output.

Wind generators output much less current, do not smell and do make a peculiar sound.

For me at a remote anchorage I would much prefer the sound of a WG to the sound and smell of an engine generator.

My estimate is that the WG may keep the house bank at or well above 75% of full charge.

My boat will have Propane cooking and Diesel heat.

So the electrical appliances I envision running while at anchor are; cabin, salon LED lighting, VHF, GPS, anchor lights, on demand pumps, alarm and status panels, AHU fan on demand. Well less than 10 Amps per hour. The WG could easily make this up.

The generator would be used to put a hard charge on the batteries as required.

/Flame on?

Sounds like a great plan. Except for the anchoring in the wind part. I try to anchor in the lee.

 

[hollywood8118]

I will add my .02 to the generator Vrs wind power with a few things to consider.

Generators are noisy,smelly, they vibrate, consume fuel and require maintenance for their much higher Amperage output.

Wind generators output much less current, do not smell and do make a peculiar sound.

For me at a remote anchorage I would much prefer the sound of a WG to the sound and smell of an engine generator.

My estimate is that the WG may keep the house bank at or well above 75% of full charge.

My boat will have Propane cooking and Diesel heat.

So the electrical appliances I envision running while at anchor are; cabin, salon LED lighting, VHF, GPS, anchor lights, on demand pumps, alarm and status panels, AHU fan on demand. Well less than 10 Amps per hour. The WG could easily make this up.

The generator would be used to put a hard charge on the batteries as required.

/Flame on?

Unless your boat is sitting behind a very low wind break ... enough to shelter the boat from wave but not wind action most wind generators if averaged over a 24hr period do not put out enough amp hours to be worth the hassle. On a passagemaker ( sail ) it makes much more sense.. Personally I seek for more sheltered anchorage... I don't like to keep a anchor watch just to get the wind required to make enough energy.. by sitting out in the open unprotected. Many places have winds that are a direct result of the topography and the daily heat production of the earth and as such winds may drop to nothing at night ( the same period the solar panels are not doing squat ). Can they help with energy production.. sure depending on location. Here in the PNW in the summer it would make a great clothes rack and a place for the gulls to pearch and crap all over the boat. In the trades behind a low atol you bet... although that is where we had ours and it wasnt worth squat... except the pole did make a killer place to fly our flag.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[BigJim]

Awesome! I am learning a lot here.

 

[Larry M]

.... In the trades behind a low atol you bet... although that is where we had ours and it wasnt worth squat... except the pole did make a killer place to fly our flag.

Don't short change the newer generation wind generators. After a year between Panama and in the Eastern Caribbean, I've changed my opinion. The manufacturers seem to be have been listening. They are extremely quite, more efficient and pretty much vibration free. When the Christmas winds are blowing 15-20 for 4 months straight in the anchorages, it's kind of hard not appreciate the wind power. Are you going get all your energy needs from one generator, no, but it sure seems to add the amps. We hung around with the sailboat crowd last year and it turned us into believers. Cruising in the PNW, now that's another story.

 

[psneeld]

How to produce energy is a location, cruising style and personal choice...unlimited bucks and the right amount of deck/cabin top space and sure...something for every occasion.

Whatever works for your style of cruisin' is the important ingredient.

 

[Earl34Mainship]

Me either... SOC?