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Old 12-06-2012, 10:06 AM   #21
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West Marine salespeople work on commision now?
My understanding in that store in electronics they did as it was always important to them that they shepherded any sales. I was wrong once before
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:07 AM   #22
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I was told by an expert that Xantrex is "Chinese crap", .............
I don't put much stock in a person who would say something like that.

If you think product "A" is inferior to product "B", tell me why. "Chinese crap" is not "why".
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:11 AM   #23
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My understanding in that store in electronics they did as it was always important to them that they shepherded any sales. I was wrong once before
I don't know that they are or aren't, but unlike a new car dealership, I've never had a West Marine employee push me to purchase anything. They seem very laid back and mostly helpfull, even to the point of looking up competitor's phone numbers for me when they didn't have what I needed.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:31 AM   #24
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What ever the brand I would not have an inverter/charger as one unit. I would have two separate units. As most of the time I use one at a time, either charging or inverter.

We have had a Xantrex 30A inverter for 16 years. Most years when the AC dock power goes out we use it for a couple of days. Even though itís a 30 amp the max amps we have used is about 20 amps. When not in use I turn the unit off as well as the battery switch. I think I paid 300 bucks for it.

Some people can make thing last the decades while others a couple of years? Do you think it might be the user?
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:37 PM   #25
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Many thanks to all for the input. Think I'll start researching the Magnum. Thanks again!
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:34 PM   #26
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Based on my personal experience, and the experiences of others on several boating forums, Xantrex products seem to have a much higher rate of failure than some of the other brands. Perhaps it's because they have a bigger market share or perhaps it's because they are not as well designed and constructed. I'm thinking the latter.

I've often wondered that, even as a happy Xantrex customer.

I've also wondered if, since Xantrex makes several lines of inverters ranging in price from some of the cheapest in the industry to pretty expensive, if many of the failure reports, and the companies reputation are based on the lower price point units.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:57 PM   #27
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What ever the brand I would not have an inverter/charger as one unit. I would have two separate units. As most of the time I use one at a time, either charging or inverter.

We have had a Xantrex 30A inverter for 16 years. Most years when the AC dock power goes out we use it for a couple of days. Even though itís a 30 amp the max amps we have used is about 20 amps. When not in use I turn the unit off as well as the battery switch. I think I paid 300 bucks for it.

Some people can make thing last the decades while others a couple of years? Do you think it might be the user?
I can't see where you would ever use an inverter and charger at the same time except in the one case of the guy who was trying to use his inverter to charge his batteries and wondered why they kept running down!

As far as the comment about some people using things for decades while other people can only use theirs a couple years, some things were built better decades ago than they are being built today.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:14 PM   #28
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The reason you would use both the invert and charge functions simultaneously is in the case of a load sharing inverter. In that situation the inverter will "protect" the shore cable from overload by drawing supplemental power from the batteries. I don't have that ability but if I ever do replace my Hearts it will be to gain load sharing.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:49 PM   #29
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The reason you would use both the invert and charge functions simultaneously is in the case of a load sharing inverter. In that situation the inverter will "protect" the shore cable from overload by drawing supplemental power from the batteries. I don't have that ability but if I ever do replace my Hearts it will be to gain load sharing.
How would it do that? Would it seperate the AC load into two circuits and power one while letting shore power handle the other? How would it know?

I have overloaded my shorepower just once or twice in four years and all that happened was, the breaker on the dock or the master breaker on the boat tripped. If it was a problem, it seems upgrading the boat either to 50 amps or two 30 amp circuits would be a better solution.

*** Now that I read your post again, if the inverter/charger is drawing power from the batteries to suplement the shore power, but trying to charge the batteries at the same time, it's just not going to work.

At best, an inverter is 90% efficient so running the inverter to charge the batteries is a losing proposition. They will eventually be discharged, not charged.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:01 PM   #30
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If you are always snuggled up to 30 or 50 amp service you're right - you don't need it. Obviously it doesn't charge the batteries while it is discharging them. Google load sharing. I have no interest in typing out an explanation.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:11 PM   #31
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I'm a big fan of Newmar Power System products.. their chargers are very reliable. Their customer service is first class.
Disclaimer: I may be biased as I sell a lot of Newmar products.. I don't get returns.
+1. I have an original equipment old Newmar charger which I assume to be a ferrous-resonant type, unlike my multi stage "smart" solar controllers. Works fine, though I only use it when on board.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:37 AM   #32
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If you are always snuggled up to 30 or 50 amp service you're right - you don't need it. Obviously it doesn't charge the batteries while it is discharging them. Google load sharing. I have no interest in typing out an explanation.
You're going to post something and then decline to back it up?
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:54 AM   #33
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The better chargers will alow the batts to take up a load from a weak power source.

Shore line , noise maker , whatever.

Starting air cond from a properly sized noise maker will require perhaps 1/2 secomd of make up current, then the unit goes back to charging.

Running the air cond and the washing machine from a 15A dock cord requires good batteries , and the charge will take place as soon as the load drops below the 15A setting.

This is one form of load sharing , but my favorite is a priority relay used for load sharing.

EG ther HW heater is secured as the air cond starts .

This works great and the relay is only $60 or so.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:55 AM   #34
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You're going to post something and then decline to back it up?
Your personal lack of understanding isn't my problem.

FF has already explained it for you. Load sharing inverters sync to the grid and monitor power use against whatever setting you have allowed for the shorecord. When use exceeds what is available the inverter picks up the difference. When use drops below what is available the batteries get recharged.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:58 AM   #35
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Your personal lack of understanding isn't my problem.

FF has already explained it for you. Load sharing inverters sync to the grid and monitor power use against whatever setting you have allowed for the shorecord. When use exceeds what is available the inverter picks up the difference. When use drops below what is available the batteries get recharged.
You couldn't have just posted that without the insult?
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:10 AM   #36
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Maybe your recent statement "I am an electronics technician also" lead readers to think that load sharing would be part of an electronics technician's vocablulary and knowledge base?

It is not exactly a new concept, even at the low end of the recreational vessel inverter market.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:24 AM   #37
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Maybe your recent statement "I am an electronics technician also" lead readers to think that load sharing would be part of an electronics technician's vocablulary and knowledge base?

It is not exactly a new concept, even at the low end of the recreational vessel inverter market.
Does everyone become a jerk when they log on to this forum or are they naturally that way?

I understand the concept of load sharing and the concept of load shedding. In my work, I never came upon a system for load sharing. I have not seen it on a boat and am asking how it would be done and why it would be needed.

FF's idea of load shedding (not sharing) by using a relay to disconnect one load when another, higher priority load comes on line is fine but it shouldn't be necessary with shore power or even a proper genset. On my boat, on inverter power, I cannot run the microwave oven and the coffee maker at the same time. That's a form of load shedding, done manually.

If you can be civil about it, please demonstrate your vast knowledge of the subject of load sharing as it applies to a boat. If not, just let it go.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:36 AM   #38
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No need for you to be a jerk about it, just look it up and learn. It shouldn't be too great a stretch for an "electronics technician" and the exercise will enhance your knowledge of power management systems and electronic controls as they apply to boats of all sizes.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:02 PM   #39
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Does everyone become a jerk when they log on to this forum or are they naturally that way?

I understand the concept of load sharing and the concept of load shedding. In my work, I never came upon a system for load sharing. I have not seen it on a boat and am asking how it would be done and why it would be needed.

FF's idea of load shedding (not sharing) by using a relay to disconnect one load when another, higher priority load comes on line is fine but it shouldn't be necessary with shore power or even a proper genset. On my boat, on inverter power, I cannot run the microwave oven and the coffee maker at the same time. That's a form of load shedding, done manually.

If you can be civil about it, please demonstrate your vast knowledge of the subject of load sharing as it applies to a boat. If not, just let it go.
The topic intrigued me, so I did a little 10 minute Google investigation.

Some units are capable of doing load shedding and load sharing

Many of the descriptions for this are related to solar charging, and utility power grid. Many solar units are also capable of selling the excess power back to the utility.

Most common and easiest device to load shed is an electric hot water heater.

Usually load sharing is done for something like air conditioner start-up, while other devices, like the refrigerator, freezer, icemaker, dishwasher, microwave and clothes washer are running. Also don't forget about the myriad of lights, pumps and entertainment devices on board.

When power demand increases, load shed devices will be turned off. Then the charger/inverter unit goes into load sharing mode, as power demand increases, the charger circuit shuts down, and the inverter cycles on to supply makeup power. As demand decreases and makeup power is no longer needed, the inverter idles, and the charging circuit comes back on-line. When the load reduces enough, the shed load (water heater) will come back on-line.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:29 PM   #40
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The topic intrigued me, so I did a little 10 minute Google investigation.

Some units are capable of doing load shedding and load sharing.
See how easy that was Ron.

My Freedom 25s are capable of load shedding to the extent that they will curtail their charging draw depending on what power I have indicated is available. That's actually pretty handy because at least briefly the Hearts will pull a heavy load if they see a discharged battery bank and available shore or noisemaker power. Sometimes I'd rather use limited shore power to warm the hot water tank or make supper before I let the Heart recharge the batteries.

I believe it is the SW24 series of Heart inverters that has load sharing ability so if you have a 24 volt house bank and can find one of them they would be an excellent and likely reasonably priced choice.
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