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Old 02-03-2015, 09:53 AM   #1
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Capacitor start system.

The newest issue of PBB has an article about this new (expensive) capacitor start system.

Basically there is NO start batt , just a capacitor , that is charged from the house bank for 30 seconds and Wham, 2500 CCA of starter juice available.

Should start anything from sport fish to a sailboat with a lawn tractor engine as power. All for 11 lbs.

To my mind it becomes cost effective when one thinks of all the stuff that is no longer needed.

No rotary switches , sized to carry amps to start a diesel in the cold.

Only one charge system , the house , no solenoids , merge wiring , no transistor seperation gadgets, no rotary switches to parallel .

The unit could be quite close to the engine so those long runs of heavy 04 cable would no longer exist.

Best the batts could be out of the heat of the engine space , and wiring from the house set could be fused .

Looks like a win - win,

as soon as the Chinese knock them off for $100 each retail the start battery may become as obsolete as a start crank handle.






www.osimicronpowerpack.com
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:10 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by FF View Post
The newest issue of PBB has an article about this new (expensive) capacitor start system.

Basically there is NO start batt , just a capacitor , that is charged from the house bank for 30 seconds and Wham, 2500 CCA of starter juice available.

Should start anything from sport fish to a sailboat with a lawn tractor engine as power. All for 11 lbs.

To my mind it becomes cost effective when one thinks of all the stuff that is no longer needed.

No rotary switches , sized to carry amps to start a diesel in the cold.

Only one charge system , the house , no solenoids , merge wiring , no transistor seperation gadgets, no rotary switches to parallel .

The unit could be quite close to the engine so those long runs of heavy 04 cable would no longer exist.

Best the batts could be out of the heat of the engine space , and wiring from the house set could be fused .

Looks like a win - win,

as soon as the Chinese knock them off for $100 each retail the start battery may become as obsolete as a start crank handle.






www.osimicronpowerpack.com
Pray tell, what is PBB? Some of us are alphabet soup challenged.

Well, what is the useful life of this contraption?
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:25 AM   #3
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Sounds very interesting; the link didn't work....
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:47 AM   #4
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Professional Boat Builder mag?
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:54 AM   #5
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Link not found


My guess is that it would have to be recharged after sitting for a while. Capacitors are prone to leaking down. How long would that take??
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:56 AM   #6
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I think this is the link
Micron Corporation
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:20 AM   #7
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Scarce tech details. I'm sure a capacitor can provide the amps and volts for a start, but what about having to spin over a cold or airloaded diesel? That requires amps volts and time, otherwise known as energy content.

Similar complaints with airstart and hydraulic starters. You get one or two cranks, then have to recharge the storage, whatever it is.

Batts are old skool tech, but a grp 31 can crank a diesel quite a few times, totaling into minutes.

Still interesting. Could see apps where these things are integrated into a system.

No mention of cost.
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:46 AM   #8
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A setup like that would still need some serious switching to "charge" the capacitor and I imagine it would be prudent to have a main disconnect. Also, if charged off the house bank, there is the old problem of running down the house bank at anchor would not be able to start the engine.

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Old 02-03-2015, 12:28 PM   #9
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The Capacitor article is in the Feb/March 2015 issue of Professional Boat Builder. They do say it has little to no discharge but it cannot be used like a battery and imply that an engine battery is still needed. Not sure why one would want one of these other than a backup to start the engine. $650 as tested.

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Old 02-03-2015, 01:34 PM   #10
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I would still recommend a properly sized AGM located close to the charger and the appropriate re-charge relay. Solid technology, no maintenance.
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:16 PM   #11
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Sounds quite feasible with a large enough cap. I would like to see more product data and some practical demo applications like the semi mentioned on the site.
I like the idea. You could leave most of the starting battery wiring in place and increase the size of the house bank. If for some reason the cap was not enough (doubt it because it could be recharged off the house bank in <1 minute), switch to the house bank (or jumpers) and start on that. You would definately not want a "BOTH" connection!!!
The limiting factor for years has been capacitor capacity/size.
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Old 02-04-2015, 06:08 AM   #12
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The unit is only charged , just before its use.

It carries NO charge except when being used for starting.

The total recharge time is 30 SECONDS , so multiple start attempts are no problem.

Air or hyd start systems can be replenished but not in 30 seconds.

The weight of a bunch of 8D or ser 31 could be in the house system , increasing the lifestyle aboard.

The web site is under construction , have to wonder if the Chinese copy cats will beat them to to advertising the units.

Pro Boat Builder is the ONE mag , if you can only have one to read.
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Old 02-04-2015, 06:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
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The unit is only charged , just before its use.

It carries NO charge except when being used for starting.

The total recharge time is 30 SECONDS , so multiple start attempts are no problem.

Air or hyd start systems can be replenished but not in 30 seconds.

The weight of a bunch of 8D or ser 31 could be in the house system , increasing the lifestyle aboard.

The web site is under construction , have to wonder if the Chinese copy cats will beat them to to advertising the units.

Pro Boat Builder is the ONE mag , if you can only have one to read.
Just wondering what the 'loss' would be by using the battery to recharge the capacitor......
50%
25%
10%
...???
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:40 AM   #14
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No free lunch. If smaller house batts are to charge this device they will have to be drained considerably. The equation is simple, the watts used to start the engines quickly come from the small batteries slowly. Where is the benefit?. A big boat wants big house batts that will work fine as starting batts. A small boat with small house needs can be started by smaller batts with better CCA ratings.
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:20 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
The unit is only charged , just before its use.

It carries NO charge except when being used for starting.

The total recharge time is 30 SECONDS , so multiple start attempts are no problem.

...

Pro Boat Builder is the ONE mag , if you can only have one to read.

I can't cut and paste because of PBB's application so I will practice my typing skills, or lack there of.

Quote:
...
Using a controller and solenoid, supplied with the Power-Pak, the "system" (it's not a battery) is wired to the vessel's starting circuit, where it is designed to provide the start current, allowing a conventional battery to "coast" along as it were, supply other after-start, engine-running loads.

After the engine starts, the PowerPak recharges in about half a minute. It's important to note, because it's not a battery per se, the unit has practically no reserve capacity, so with any sustained load it will be depleted quickly.
...
However, the unit's merits are clear: reliable power for cranking engines, no or low self discharge, and a blindingly quick recharge cycle.
...
The only value I see in this device is the ability to act as a reserve to start the engine, or if the batteries were marginal, charge the capacitor enough to start, or maybe in really cold environments. The article mentions the US military wanted these things and I wonder what circumstances they wanted to use the device.

PBB is amazing. I have bought all of the prior issues of the magazine to read. It is a great resource.

Later,
Dan
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:28 AM   #16
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Wow.

Just do a Google and it's amazing what turns up.
There is an interesting looking PDF from 2001

Here is link to a commercial thing

Cantec Systems - CAN-CRANK™ Capacitor, Ultra Capacitor Solutions for Engine Start, Low Battery Engine Start, Diesel Engine Start, Engine Idle Reduction, Anti-Idling, Green Energy
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:30 AM   #17
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I may have done this BEFORE I added the dedicated start battery

This PDF was written in 2007, but is really interesting.

It's amazing that this stuff is out there and we have not talked about it til now.

http://www.cantecsystems.com/ccrdocs...capacitors.pdf
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:18 PM   #18
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Its wired in parallel with your house battery. So you can have a large deep cycle house battery with the cap supplying starting current with no damage to the soft lead battery plates. Better than dual-purpose batteries. I would like to try it at some point after I switch over to all GC's.
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