Cable Crimper

[BaltimoreLurker]

I need to crimp a 1/2 dozen or so terminals onto #6 AWG battery cable and am thinking I can use one of these gizmos.* I realize it's not the perfect solution, but it looks reasonable, much, much less expensive than buying a proper crimping tool and a lot less hassle than running back and forth to West Marine to use theirs.*

Anyone had experince with this low tech, low buck tool?

Thanks

 

[RickB]

Those things work quite well, but because it makes a better mechanical connection than electrical since it only crimps a small area compared to a proper crimping die, I would also solder the connection to prevent corrosion forming inside the shell.

 

[troy994719]

RickB wrote:

Those things work quite well, but because it makes a better mechanical connection than electrical since it only crimps a small area compared to a proper crimping die, I would also solder the connection to prevent corrosion forming inside the shell.

*I would use heat shrink to keep moisture out on battery cable, it makes everything look neat and clean along with keeping moisture out.

 

[FF]

Depending on the size , as a rag bagger we have a Nicropress cable tool on the smaller heavy wiring like #6.

It does crush the hell out of the terminal end .

There are mixed opinions on soldering BIG (04) starter sized wiring.

WE use a discarded cable cutter die ground to have flats on the ex cutting edge.

This crush locks the heavy terminals in a number of rings and seems impossible to pull off, we have tried.

So the mechanical portion of the requirement is done.

WE do chose to use a plumbers ladle filled with molten solder to dunk the end into on starting circuits.For the electrical requirement.

So far 35 years and no failures,

FF



-- Edited by FF on Friday 19th of June 2009 04:39:10 AM

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I think I may have found an even better, low cost solution.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66150

I realize Harbor Freight doesn't sell top-of-the-line tools, but for casual use .....

I can't walk through their stores without finding something I just have to have.* Talk about impulse buying!

 

[Keith]

Harbor Freight - the new Sears! At around $50, that hydraulic crimper looks like a pretty good deal. They have a retail outlet near me, which I avoid like the plague unless I have a written shopping list.

 

[FF]

To get a "proper" (made both mechanically and electrically ) terminal end requires some concern.

We use Anchor wire and Anchor terminal ends and the Anchor brand crush tool.

IT will only release after sufficient force is used to "cold flow) the solder.

THE requirement for a good end.

Weather the Chinese Hyd unit has any such protection is open to inspection.

So I would dip any Chinese ends in a solder dunk, to be sure on the electric requirement .

FF

 

[troy994719]

The anchor crimp tool makes the best connection, but its a pretty expensive tool. Online they sell for about $180.

FYI solder is a big ABYC no no on boats.

 

[FF]

"FYI solder is a big ABYC no no on boats."

I understand their reluctance on starting cable , usually unfused, a starter can create enough heat to actually melt the solder and spray it out of the terminal end.


Not a hassle with well crimped ends as there should be little room for solder.

I think the ABYC fears builders that will use JUST solder for both the mechanical and electrical requirements .

 

[RickB]

troy994719 wrote:
FYI solder is a big ABYC no no on boats.

ABYC Standards and Technical Information Reports for Small Craft
July 2008 -2009

E-11AC and DC Electrical Systems On Boats

11.14.5.7 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connecton shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing*of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.

EXCEPTION:* Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.

I haven't received*my new standards manual yet, but I have not been informed that this has changed recently. Please refrain from giving advice based on ABYC standards if you are not familiar with them.

 

[Keith]

Well hell, RickB... if you'd just answer the questions faster, none of us would ever need to come in here and make mistakes, except to ask you a question.

-- Edited by Keith on Tuesday 23rd of June 2009 08:02:16 AM

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Solder or no solder aside ... FF mentioned an issue that I'm also struggling with - the starter cable.

Mine goes straight from the battery to the engine, unfused.* I "thought" it was supposed to run through the main battery switch first, but that's a long run and back with some heavy cable.* I've see drawings of both configurations.* Is it* a matter of convenience and/or preference?

I am trying to sort out the Frankenstein wiring on my boat that has been through at least 2 previous owners.

 

[troy994719]

*

*
My apologies, but Just reading that rule sure looks to me like they want you to stay away from soldering.
*

*
Are you referring to the main switch on your DC panel?
It should have a disconnect switch, if you have a starter hang you will not be able to shut it off. You would have a real mess by the time you got the battery cable disconnected!
If you have a run from the battery bank to the starter now it would be easy to add some kind of switch. Something like this BlueSea switch would be inexpensive, they also make one with a remote mount switch that you could put outside the engine room.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/80609/377%20710%201642/0/Battery%20Switches%20&%20Cable/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%201642&Ne=0&Ntt=Battery%20Switches%20&%20Cable&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=9&classNum=297
*
*


-- Edited by troy994719 on Tuesday 23rd of June 2009 09:12:23 AM

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

troy994719 wrote:
My apologies, but Just reading that rule sure looks to me like they want you to stay away from soldering.
*
Are you referring to the main switch on your DC panel?
It should have a disconnect switch, if you have a starter hang you will not be able to shut it off. You would have a real mess by the time you got the battery cable disconnected!

I'm definitely staying away from solder, I'm going to depend on a good crimp.

Yes, the main switch on the DC panel.* The current set-up is a cable from 1 batt bank (+) straight to the engine.* There is also a pair of smaller cables going from the + to the switch.* They appear original and I'm guessing they used 2 small cables instead of 1 large one becuse that's what they had laying around.

The other batt bank (+) goes straight to the DC panel switch.

I'm still deciphering exactly what's what under the hood but it appears that the "Off-1-2-All" switch may be determining where the charge goes.* It does also shut everything down in the "Off" position.

Either 1, 2 or All on the switch will start the engine.* So I'm sort of scratching my head and saying, "Huh?"

Electricity mystifies me at the best of times.* Because of multiple rewirings, no color code discipline and multiple previous owners I spend a lot of time sitting and looking at stuff wondering, "WTF?".

*

*

*

*

 

[RickB]

Keith wrote:

Well hell, RickB... if you'd just answer the questions faster, none of us would ever need to come in here and make mistakes, except to ask you a question.

-- Edited by Keith on Tuesday 23rd of June 2009 08:02:16 AM

If you don't want answers don't ask the questions. If you only want answers from certain people don't ask in public. If you don't want specific information don't read* answers that give references to source documents.

I* could care less if you want to play boat fixer in total ignorance, neither I nor any of my family will be on your boat so do what you want. The results are between your and your (or your guests) insurance company and lawyers.*

ABYC standards are not compulsary, they are advisory. You can do whatever you want. As an ABYC member, I would prefer that those who contribute advice or information they claim to be ABYC*"rules" at least know what the standards are.

*

 

[Keith]

You get so irritated so easily rickbee....

 

[RickB]

I only get irritated about things I care about.

But, as the old saying goes, I do not suffer fools gladly.*

 

[FF]

"Just reading that rule sure looks to me like they want you to stay away from soldering."


"11.14.5.7 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connecton shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor."

"I'm definitely staying away from solder, I'm going to depend on a good crimp.


READ the "rule" again ,

As stated they simply do not want solder to be the ONLY fastening to a terminal end.

Mechanically , AND electrically is required for a proper connection.

With out the proper tool ($$$) to assure cold flow , only solder can assure the electrical connection was made.

Either you spend the CA$H to do it right , or you do the best you can.

In our business of outfitting , most owners will not pay to rewire the entire vessel so the only choice is to take loose every wire , touch solder the usually crimped auto terminal ends and reinstall with star washers , and hope for the best.

And folks wonder why I don't usually love TT's.
House wire and auto crimps , and splices hidden behind overheads , is a start.

FF

 

[troy994719]

Please tell me your not going to get started on the TT and Mainship dream killer rant again!

-- Edited by troy994719 on Wednesday 24th of June 2009 06:55:11 AM

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

troy994719 wrote:
Please tell me your not going to get started on the TT and Mainship dream killer rant again!

Let the kill-joys rant all they want about TT's.* I now have a fun, running and safe boat that cost me less than the cars most of my co-workers drive.*

 

[RickB]

FF wrote:
...*so the only choice is to take loose every wire , touch solder the usually crimped auto terminal ends and reinstall with star washers , and hope for the best.

That's about the only way to ensure good connections. The star washers are good protection against corrosion causing a high resistance connection that is incredibly difficult to trace, and a well* made solder joint provides a good electrical path to the connector which a poor crimp just doesn't do and the resulting high resistance or intermittent connection is very hard to troubleshoot.

FYI, ABYC has a table of "tensile test values" for*crimp connections of various*wire sizes. For example an 18 gauge wire*crimped to a connector must withstand a 10 pound pull for one minute. The*test pull*goes up to 225 pounds for a 4/0 cable.

That 4/0 cable can be soldered without crimping to an appropriate*battery connector as long as the length of the solder joint is about 3/4 of an inch (.69 is the*minimum length) So you can see it doesn't take much solder to do the job right.

 

[FF]

"touch solder the usually crimped auto terminal ends"

Folks that need to do this procedure will need a tool not usually in a boaters kit.

A heavy roofing iron (actually its made of copper) of about 3# and a propane torch.

A soldering iron or gun is way too wimpy , and by time it has heated the terminal end , it may also have melted and hardened the wire outside the terminal end.

A good hot roofing iron allows one to touch the terminal end for a short enough time that only the wire IN the terminal is soldered , and you don't loose the flexibility paid for in multistrand wiring.

A 3x heat shrink over the wire and terminal end is a good idea at keeping moisture out of the wires.

FF

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

I couldn't wait any longer for my back-ordered crimpers from Harbor Freight so I found a set at a local rental center.* Little doubt the crimps are not ABYC compliant, but I couldn't pull them apart and the connections sure seem to work.

I finally got the Xantrex XC3012 charger installed and fired up.* No, I haven't checked the specific gravity of all the individual cells, nor run a meter on each of the 4 batteries, but I will say this - the charger came to life, recognized the 2 banks of 2, 8D batteries and, according to the display panel, started humping some serious amps into them at 14.1V - 14.4V!* The next morning both banks were in the "float" mode at something like 13.3V.

I'm going to let the electrons soak in for a week or so and then check out the "equalization" mode.

Barely touched the start key and the Lehman roared to life!* Even ran the 'fridge off the inverter for a while, just 'cause I could.

Time will tell, but so far I could not be happier with this product that seems to do exactly what was advertised.* Microporcessors are a wonderful thing!

 

[troy994719]

Not sure how old your batteries are but*when the 8d's go bad you might consider the golf cart batteries. I traded my two 8d's in for 8 golf cart batteries.
I have hauled quite a few 8d's and never want to see another one, they are HEAVY!

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

troy994719 wrote:Not sure how old your batteries are but*when the 8d's go bad you might consider the golf cart batteries. I traded my two 8d's in for 8 golf cart batteries.

I have hauled quite a few 8d's and never want to see another one, they are HEAVY!

Absolutely right on there, Cap'n!* I don't take them home in the winter and I paid the $ to get a real charger in order to breathe some more life into them.* When they do die I'm not sure how I'm going to wrestle them out of there.

Golf cart batts are my #1 candidate for replacements.

 

[FF]

Depending on the size if the battery box you might consider Trioan L-16 ,which are tall but Deep Cycle .

The other size that might work is series 31.

These make great cold weather starts and are cheap as most trucks use them in pairs.

The L-16 will work just fine as starts and a pair (12V) have enough robustness to start most boat diesels (maybe not if you have a 12V71) in anything over freezing , after 60% of the charge is used .

It may be crude , bur weight and amps are directly related, usually the heavier the better in wet cell.

FF

 

[Forkliftt]

Crimp if you want, this is still the easiest way to bed cable in solder. I think it is important to match the terminal to the correct wire size. IMHO I believe 2/0 cable handles most diesel engines for cables up to 6-8 feet. Be sure to use cable cutters to cut a clean end that you can stick into the terminal easily without having strands peeling off.Steve
http://www.trawlerforum.com/index.spark?forumID=115492&p=3&topicID=25899224

 

[FF]

. Be sure to use cable cutters to cut a clean end that you can stick into the terminal easily without having strands peeling off.

Good advise ,

BUT if you don't have cable cutters a tight heavy wrap if electrical tape , prefferably with the insulation still on, and a 32 tooth metal hack saw blade , a workman like job can be done.

 

[carvendive]

One additional thing you might want to include in your process is to use some 5200 under the shrink.* NO Moisture - EVER!

I'm getting ready to redo batteries and wire on my boat.* I'm sure it'll be a long process.* I figure I'll go ahead and buy the Anchor crimp tool.* Then once I'm done with it I'm sure I'd be able to sell it here or on one of the many other cruising sites.

Also, while I don't have the technical document close at hand, there is new information coming out against the new (no lead) solder.* I forget the term but it's not good - reminded me of the use of aluminum wire oxidizing and eventually causing arcing.* Like I said, I don't have the document but you might want to do some investigation on it if you are using it.

 

[FF]

. "NO Moisture - EVER!"

Sorry but 5200 CURES with moisture and intact may be "water proof" but not moisture (vapor) proof.

To get the best ,either the shrink tubing with glue inside ,

or find a Phone Ca guy and get a few fistfuls of their tiny goo capsules.

Phone wire is single strand of thin wire , and with it being used for internet they are really picky about corrosion.

The caps are not monitored , so most guys will easily part with a bunch.

FF