Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-11-2018, 03:24 PM   #1
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,639
Broad Brush Statement I Heard

So I was watching a YouTube channel the other night and the "Tuber" made a bit of a broad statement that I wanted to run past you guys for discussion. In a nutshell, he said there are basically three companies supplying comprehensive electronics packages for boats. He didn't like Raymarine because it lacked some of the features he wanted (he is a sailboat owner) and that Garmin tends to just find products that work and just buy them... like Navionics... and AC. Moreover, he hasn't been super impressed with their customer service. He continued by saying that Lowrance is geared to the smaller, center-console fishing community and SimRad caters more toward larger powerboats. So as a sailor, he went with B&G since they specifically tailor to sailboats (and yes... Lowrance, SimRad, and B&G all have the same parent company, Navico).

Now, please don't shoot the messenger here, however, I AM interested in the validity of any or all of a statement like this. I will be in the market (MAYBE) in a year or so to completely re-vamp out electronics. I have not even started researching, but thought running a broad-brush statement through the TF wringer may be fun. Maybe...
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 03:27 PM   #2
Guru
 
Woodland Hills's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alzero
Vessel Model: Hatteras 63' CPMY
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 693
Where does Furuno fit into that picture?
__________________

Woodland Hills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 03:36 PM   #3
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,485
Pretty happy with my Raymarine products. It does seem that after about 2 years, regardless of brand, the unit you bought is now obsolete in some form or another.

I have a C97 and the only "new" unit that would talk to it was an es127. Then Raymarine came out with the Axiom and new Lighthouse III programming. The LH III won't even talk to the C97.
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 03:39 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
AdmiralS's Avatar
 
City: Stony Point, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Varka
Vessel Model: Ranger Tugs R-27 & Helmsman 43 PH
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 96
I agree with Woodland. Furuno is the 4th. Outside of that, its basically the market. Northstar is pretty much out, and TimeZero has its own requirements.

We will be doing a complete electronics package on our new Helmsman in the next month or so. I am an IT person by trade, so technology flows in my veins. I also do most of the electronics installs and refits at our boat club for the members so consider myself quite knowledgeable across the different manufacturers and their products dating back to the early 2000's.

Raymarine may be re-inventing themselves with Axiom and LightHouse, but the mental trauma they have caused me from the past C & E Series immediately crosses them off the list from ever being a contender. I have nightmares of SeaTalk, SeaTalkNG, 0183, 2000 swirling around my head at night...

I like Furuno, but it is definitely geared towards Commercial and Serious cruising. Lacks a lot of the bells and whistles included by the other vendors.

B&G is definitely geared towards the sailing market and is mostly the same hardware as the SimRad kit.

Our previous boat was Garmin, with all the bells and whistles and we did love it.

I really really wanted to love SimRad, as we really liked the user interface and the look and feel of the equipment, but it fell short in a number of areas -

1. Cameras are limited to only the display it is connected to
2. The smaller GO panels lack networking so cannot consume Radar/Sonar or cameras from the other MFDS
3. Auto routing is still rather basic with sharp turns when computed
4. Now that Garmin bought Navionics, they are pushing CMAP

We will be proceeding with Garmin kit for our new Helmsman as it solves the shortcomings of SimRad above. BlueCharts g3 is now built with Navionics so we will have the best of Navionics and Active Captain data.
AdmiralS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 04:10 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Tomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 164
Fifteen years ago a sailboat friend referred to his B&G instruments as "broke and gone". His auto pilot spent more time in transit for repair than on his boat. Hopefully they have become more reliable.
Tomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 04:32 PM   #6
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,363
Wifey B: Well, Mr. Sailboat sort of lost his credibility by not even mentioning Furuno and that's without his omission of Timezero and others, but it seems to me it's a sailor who just feels this inner desire like a disease to be different and that meant going away from the mainstream.

Now, with electronics, that seems sort of unwise. Isn't it smarter to be with the ones with more complete offerings and more products and more customers unless they're really really really really bad bad bad.

We're Furuno and Transas and Timezero fans but out last boat we bought Garmin as they offered Garmin, Raymarine, or Simrad. Garmin is so simple to go with as they have it all and it worked fine and we had no complaints. We were prepared if we didn't like it to rip it out (not literally, remove it with care) and replace with Furuno. I don't like Raymarine but they'd be my next choice and then even Simrad before B&G. With technology there's a big advantage to staying mainstream. Something goes wrong and thousands will be screaming rather than a few who are easily ignored. I'm staying mainstream.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 04:34 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
NightCrawler's Avatar
 
City: Southport, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Shangri-La
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 174
We outfitted Shangri-La with all new Garmin in 2016. Took some getting used to all the techie features - but their customer service and the installer have been just great answering our questions. Very happy. MFD's, sonar and radar.
__________________
Jan & Lee

Eat Life -
www.grandpapickers.com
NightCrawler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 04:59 PM   #8
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightCrawler View Post
MFD's, sonar and radar.
Wifey B: To go with the bluebirds and fountains.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 05:09 PM   #9
Guru
 
Wayfarer's Avatar
 
City: Oneida Lake, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Radio Flyer
Vessel Model: Wilderness Systems Aspire 105
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,131
I watched that episode too! I don't have experience with many of the aforementioned companies, but I have worked with Furuno pretty extensively at work. I've had very little issue with any of their equipment over the last 12 years. Like BandB said, it's not as flashy, but I'll take simple and reliable 100 times out of 99 anyway.
__________________
Dave
Just be nice to each other, dammit.
Wayfarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 05:19 PM   #10
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,823
Have 20 year old Furuno on my charter boat. Rock solid, and designed for people who put more that 250 hours per year on their engine.

Have probably 8 year old Garmin on my trawler. Extremely happy with it and hope the next electronics upgrade is the next owners quandary.

Sadly, past performance of a manufacturer's electronics is not necessarily a guarantee of future products performance.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 05:25 PM   #11
Guru
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 517
We went through the process of upgrading our electronics "kit" last season and formed a similar opinion about these vendors. We did not consider Furuno as we categorized it as "pro" and similarly size solutions came in above our budget.

Overall I found that the big "recreational market" vendors provide very similar features with minimal product differentiation. Some people like the interface on Simrad more than RayMarine or Garmin, others swear by the Simrad AP and build around that. In the end each person will be attracted to a particular brand based on their use cases, value points, budget and equipment already onboard.

In the end we chose Garmin for a few reasons:

1. Integration. Everything works and connects. We were replacing everything and planned to add on in phases so this appealed to us
2. Ease of use, something either of us can use quickly without deep dive RTFM sessions.
3. Budget. We set one for this project that was inline with the boat, our use cases and vessel value (don't over improve). Garmin had various options that fit the bill.
4. Brand. I must admit I had some Garmin brand loyalty from aviation and cycling. I'm also a fan of their technology acquisition strategy to date. It' expands their portfolio and advances the roadmap quickly.

Ultimately I would love to move to PC based electronics. Perhaps on the next boat especially if our use cases define that need.

Finally, I'm hopeful that open protocols for radar and sonar options become a reality in the future. In this case - Furuno currently has the advantage.
__________________
FORTITUDE
Blog: mvfortitude.com
Instagram: @mvfortitude
Facebook: Bluewater 40 Owners Group
Airstream345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 06:18 PM   #12
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
Where does Furuno fit into that picture?

Do they offer full-suite solutions?
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 06:23 PM   #13
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,639
Y'all are missing some of the original premise here. Are the generalizations even remotely accurate? Do Simrads lean toward motoryachts? Do fisherman prefer Lowrance? That kinda thing?
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 07:25 PM   #14
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,823
I doubt any of the named manufacturers' electronics won't do what you want them to do. It's probably more what your priorities are and which manufacturer's version of a feature you like better.

If I were in your situation, I would go to the Miami boat show for several days, play with all the ones you are considering, go to your hotel room, and study the material. Then go back the next day and play some more with the simulators and ask more questions. Then go back to your hotel room and go through it all again. By the third day of the show, you will be ready to shoot yourself or know what you want. You may think I crazy for suggesting the above, but consider how much you're going to invest in time and money to buy new electronics. Finally, have a few pictures of your boat, helm station and flybridge along with area dimensions for displays. Let the manufacturer's representatives see your serious.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 08:15 PM   #15
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,192
To answer the original question. There is a grain of truth in his statement. However the grain is small. Yes Garmin of late has bought some companies but in truth they pushed the market to innovate. Their purchase of navionics had nothing to do with the marine market. It had everything to do with aviation and they have absolutely revolutionized the aviation market.

In the 90’s B & G was the best thing for racing sail boats. No one else was close, then they all but died. So is B&G back or is just a different interface to the Lorwance equipment. Simrad bought up Robertson and their auto pilots were increadable for power boats but their integration, until recently was way behind the others.

Raytheon came out with LCD radar displays in the early 90’s and for the money no one could touch them. Their early chart plotters were crude but they were ahead of the others. The whole thing was spun off into Raymarine and and the integration was amazing, you could connect a autohelm AP (1980’s)to a E90W (2000’s)to an A68 with depth (2010’s) and they would all talk, but then Raymarine really lost their way.

There are just to many other issues to putting any credence in that old grain of truth. Right now there is an all out war going between Garmin, LowranceSimradB&G and FlirRaymarine. Ask me after the Seattle boat show and i’ll Let youn know who is on top this week.

I’m not ignoring Furuno. There is a reason why it’s the only thing the fishing fleet will buy.
tiltrider1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 08:25 PM   #16
Guru
 
LaBomba's Avatar
 
City: Beaverton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Looking Glass
Vessel Model: Carver 370 Voyager
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,111
We had Lowrance on our last boat and on our new purchase this year we needed to upgrade all of the electronics. I went and spent a number of hours at the largest electronics store in our area. One statement the saleperson made was that Lowrance seems to be best suited and purchased by fisherman and stated a few reasons, that I have forgotten (surprise). In the end we chose Garmin as it seemed to have a full lineup that networked very easily, plug and play as they say. I have all but the autopilot working and that is in process. Works good so far and it was extremely easy to install.
__________________
Allan & Ann
The Arc was built by amateurs
The Titanic by professionals
LaBomba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2018, 04:14 AM   #17
TF Site Team
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,209
Furuno own 50% of Time Zero, so there is seamless integration.

You can run a PC with the convenience of a mouse, and have a Furuno radar overlaid on the charts of the PC, or split screen on a 24" monitor (which I love), fully integrated Furuno NavPilot (autopilot) managed via the mouse. I have a Furuno chartplotter on the flybridge as part of the networked system, but if starting again I would try and find a daylight-viewable & waterproof monitor instead. Probably a lot cheaper than the Furuno touch screens.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2018, 06:47 AM   #18
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,928
The commercials I have been on try to get the LAST version of Furuno , rather than the latest and greatest.

Seem to serve then well both on price and reliability.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2018, 08:44 AM   #19
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
Do they offer full-suite solutions?
They offer the fullest suite of solutions and options of them all.

The thing that really made me a Furuno fanboy was their outstanding customer service on equipment well out of warranty.

All that said, there are also the more specialized vendors of equipment, such as ComNav, JRC, Standard Horizon, Icom, Vesper et al. that integrate easily into the major suites, often at better cost and superior perfomance.

By the way I think we left Sitex off the list, who often has good economy solutions and offers "suites" as well.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2018, 09:05 AM   #20
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
I will be in the market (MAYBE) in a year or so to completely re-vamp out electronics. I have not even started researching, but thought running a broad-brush statement through the TF wringer may be fun.
I have spent countless hours at WM playing with all the systems you've named. (and more) They all pretty much display the info a cruiser would ever want or need. So what was my reason for choosing a Raymarine suite? Their systems were the most intuitive. IMHO.

Having played with just about everything out there, I found Furuno to be the least intuitive. (MHO)

Also, although Raymarine was not the least expensive, it has a lot of "bang for the buck" and delivered anything I wanted to know.
__________________

__________________
Codger 1941.. Constant pursuit of the ultimate SoCal Cruising boat.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012