Broad Brush Statement I Heard

[kchace]

Y'all are missing some of the original premise here. Are the generalizations even remotely accurate? Do Simrads lean toward motoryachts? Do fisherman prefer Lowrance? That kinda thing?

Yes. In the Navico universe, Lowrance is geared towards fishing, B & G towards sailing and Simrad larger boats.


Ken

 

[sunchaser]

Y'all are missing some of the original premise here. Are the generalizations even remotely accurate? Do Simrads lean toward motoryachts? Do fisherman prefer Lowrance? That kinda thing?

No, the only things seem to that leap out on this thread are:

• Anything can work for general simple duty
• Furuno is a reliable navigation workhorse favored by longer distance folks,
• Garmin and Raymarine are intuitive and fit into short term plug and play desires
• The others are bit players

 

[caltexflanc]

Our experience:

Transas. Primarily used by commercial ships. Has functions and features that are incredible and very worthwhile when traveling far offshore. Overkill for anything like coastal cruising. They do build incredible simulators too.

Furuno. Full featured, great support, does anything we want and need. Does lag slightly in new features but when they are released they always work right. Their radar is the best in my experience. Even with Transas, we've used Furuno radar.

Simrad. We very carefully considered it. Have used their autopilot a lot. When we had the choice between it, Raymarine and Garmin, it just didn't match up feature for feature with Garmin.

Garmin. We chose Garmin on the one boat and we were very happy with it. I do think Furuno radar is still better. Service is very good. Garmin is very good if you're looking for everything from one vendor as they sure have it all. One thing too we found out as we had Furuno as backup. Garmin's charts for lakes and rivers are far superior to anyone else's. We had it for the Loop and glad we did.

Timezero. Talked into it. Thought we'd never use it as it wasn't our primary system. Really nice for coastal cruising. Only navigation but for $500 you get two workstations, complete US charts in both raster and vector, and 3D and satellite photos.

Raymarine. We hear things about a renewed effort to provide better service but until it's proved we just won't bite. We love FLIR so certainly that gets our attention. They've made a lot of progress in broadening their offering and trying to extend their appeal. We used Raymarine in school and while it didn't compare to our Furuno we were using at the time, it was older. That is a key factor to in evaluation as the major companies will go back and forth in who has the newest features. I know they've used FLIR's R&D to help them upgrade in many areas but I'm just not fully comfortable yet, so remain not a fan of Raymarine.

I have no experience with any other manufacturers.

Transas and TimeZero are navigation software, not hardware manufacturers.

 

[CaptTom]

...Something goes wrong and thousands will be screaming rather than a few who are easily ignored. I'm staying mainstream.

Right. But with Garmin, they simply ignore thousands, instead of a few.

 

[BandB]

Transas and TimeZero are navigation software, not hardware manufacturers.

You are correct. Transas is a bit of it's own creature with mostly software, although not limited to navigation, and some hardware but not the traditional packages. TimeZero is strictly navigational software but an alternative to the hardware and software packages and a low cost but solid approach. Since backup systems often comes up in conversation, we do see TimeZero as a good back up to the chart plotter and navigation functions of the complete systems.

I included them as systems we've used, not as hardware.

 

[Tom.B]

Yes. In the Navico universe, Lowrance is geared towards fishing, B & G towards sailing and Simrad larger boats.


Ken

Is that the universe with Ironman or Aquaman? :lol:

 

[Seevee]

I am guessing you perceive navionics as charts. Navionics is actually a layering software that loads images and manages the relationship of those images. It’s the software that is of value not the data files.

Tilt,

Don't see the point.... Navionics, Garmin charts, CMaps..... all provide similar info and play on a chart plotter. While there's differences, the basics of charts are pretty much the same. The only one I really don't care for is CMaps... just don't like Jeppesen.

 

[twistedtree]

"Go to a boatshow, play with all the toys and see what you like. I can not stress enough that electronics that are easy for you to understand and intuitive to operate will be the correct choice for you, regardless of brand."

The question to me is weather the operation of the device is what is desired ,
or weather the fun of showing off what it should do dockside is the desire.

Folks that want function are willing to read the book , so intuitive means little to someone that actually uses the equipment.

 

[Boat]

Something about an angry sea reduced to an LED screen that I can't reconcile.

The clock made longitude determinable. Where are we now?

Get my coffee cup and let's go.

 

[tiltrider1]

Tilt,

Don't see the point.... Navionics, Garmin charts, CMaps..... all provide similar info and play on a chart plotter. While there's differences, the basics of charts are pretty much the same. The only one I really don't care for is CMaps... just don't like Jeppesen.

You are stuck on what you see. Garmin is not interested in the part you see. Garmin is interested in the software that is referred to as layering technology. I am not sure were they are at in the certification process.

 

[twistedtree]

You are stuck on what you see. Garmin is not interested in the part you see. Garmin is interested in the software that is referred to as layering technology. I am not sure were they are at in the certification process.

But isn’t that old tech that everyone has? Everyone and their brother can render images, tile them together, overlay various layers, do pyramiding to display different resolution and scale data based on zoom level. This has been around for decades and is done my myriad of different products in many different fields.

What does Navionics have that’s special? TimeZero was supposed to be some special rendering approach, but in my opinion it’s end user performance is a big Zero, pun intended.

 

[senangsekali]

I know the video and YouTube channel you are talking about. They are good at what they do, If you have unlimited funds and hire an expert to do all your work. I don't agree with all of there statements but they have some good points. I do believe that if a company sells certain brands, they endorse that product. To each there own. I like raymarine and also like other companies products. So how does a person decide. Experience or opinions from installers go along way. Im sure most electronics are fairly reliable nowadays. So go with seem right for you and research and try it hands on if possible. My rant for tonight.
Cheers

 

[Airstream345]

I kinda want to see the video in question. Can anyone link it or provide hints so I can find it?

 

[Nomad Willy]

SeeVee wrote;
“As for the marine market, my last install was SimRad, and that has worked out "reasonably".”
Agree

 

[Wayfarer]

The video in question. These guys have been YouTubing for years, and have turned out to be a pretty good channel.

 

[Garywbryan]

As a professional mariner I went pc based on my trawler. Rosepoint navigation software. Airmar xducers for wind,GPS compass, outside temp, BP ECT. It links with Furuno or jrc radar and AIS all over my NEMA 2K. Oh and it talks to my old AP35.
This subject is all about eyes of the beholder. Everyone has the own opinion and there is no right answer! I also love the new raymarine. But pricey.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Trawler Forum mobile app

 

[IndigoStar]

I had a Garmin chart plotter on my sailboat and Nexus electronics including autopilot. Loved it. We bought a trawler with ten year old Raymarine electronics. I stayed with Raymarine, replacing the chart plotters with Axiom chart plotters and Quantum radar. A Raymarine bridge allowed me to keep the autopilot and a second depth sounder. The first depth transducer that was connector to a sonar module plugged directly into the new chart plotter providing the sonar picture. I worked with an electronics guy at the Fort Myers WM store to figure out the cable requirements. With that assistance I had no trouble with the installation. A Raymarine rebate and triple WM points helped too.

 

[Bigsfish]

Many years ago an installer friend of mine told me to go to the boat show and try each machine without knowing anything about how to operate it. The one that is intuitive to you is the one to buy as all are good and will do most anytime you want. I bought a Garmin and have been happy for twenty years. BTW their support via phone is second to none.

 

[ssobol]

... BTW their support via phone is second to none.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to buy stuff that doesn't necessitate calling someone for support.

 

[FF]

"Maybe it's just me, but I tend to buy stuff that doesn't necessitate calling someone for support."

Stand alone gear is usually the easiest to install and live with.

When you E.mail your depth sounder to state the condition of the battery bank and fullness of the holding tank , it can get complex.

However the delight of mastering a complex install is why some folks mess about in boats.

 

[Bigsfish]

Ssobol

I fully understand and feel the same way but I usually like to update my charts, tide tables, active captain, operating system, ect to keep everything current but if I didn’t care I would feel exactly like you.

Cheers

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
OK. Confession to make. At some point in the near future, I too will be updating some if not most electronics on board. Some of our current units date from the 90's. MY "problem" is the apparent, to me at least, complexity of even what everyone says is the simplest unit. I do NOT need or want the latest and greatest multiple screen/capacity/function stuff.



Take radar as an example. I simply want to know where land is and the location of other boats and/or navigational aids. That's it! That's all!


Case in point: I've been looking for a simple tide clock. The Admiral thinks that is foolish as we have tide tables on our entry level Garmin GPS/sonar. Fair enough but if I'm sitting on the aft deck and I'm curious what stage the tide is at, I have to go to the pilot house, turn on the unit, scroll through several screens IF I can remember and find what buttons to push simply to find out the very same information that a quick glance at the bulkhead will accomplish.


A second example: I purchased a car radio for our small boat two years ago. Wired the fly bridge speakers as "rear" and the saloon speakers as "front". Still, after 2 years and almost memorizing the damned manual I have yet to be able to switch the speakers to the saloon. I think next year I'll simply switch the wiring and forego music on the FB OR take the radio out of our '71 VW van and install it. Analogue, baby.



I can fully appreciate some who DO like and use all the features but I'm not that person. KISS.

Edit: I hope to keep our Wood Freeman autopilot...

 

[ssobol]

Ssobol

I fully understand and feel the same way but I usually like to update my charts, tide tables, active captain, operating system, ect to keep everything current but if I didn’t care I would feel exactly like you.

Cheers

Don't get me wrong. I'm for new(ish) technology and I usually update the data in my various devices. However, I think that I should be able to do all that and install and properly connect systems together without having to call someone for help. If it is necessary to call support to use the system as it is intended, then (IMO) the system and/or its documentation are poorly designed.

 

[Wayfarer]

I do NOT need or want the latest and greatest multiple screen/capacity/function stuff.

Take radar as an example. I simply want to know where land is and the location of other boats and/or navigational aids. That's it! That's all!

I tend to agree. I like my radar to just be a radar. I don't even like having AIS targets showing up on radar. People tend to ignore the actual ARPA data, and rely solely on the AIS for collision avoidance. They treat the radar like a big AIS display. It bothers me.

The Rose Point PC Plotter we use at work is excellent. It does just what I want it to do. It shows me where I am on a chart. Unfortunately, Rose Point was recently bought out by someone who offers much more advanced (complicated and expensive) electronic chart display information systems (ECDIS). I'm sure we'll 'upgrade' sometime in the next few years.

I'm nervous about that. Some of the people that will be using it barely know how to make Microsoft Word work, and this is a system will allow you to turn off the blue shading that shows you where the shallow water is. Why the hell would I want that? It's like a new car that allows you to turn off the windshield.

 

[Wil]

TT, I followed your electronics systems trials and travails on the old boat with great interest. If so, do you have a general summary of what you will be installing for Nav/Com on your new boat?

For every complex problem there is a simple answer..... and it's wrong...

There are elements of truth in your friends broad brush statements, but an equal amount that is wrong or missing. Furuno, for example, who are the biggest in the industry, yet more focused on commercial, are not even in the list. But they have a consumer line that is as complete and integrated as others, if that's what you want.

I think you just need to spend time with all of them, or work with an installer who you trust. Different people "bond" with how different systems operate. Some people find Garmin's single-source charts preferable, where others find it a non-starters. In some areas Navionics is good and C-map will run you aground. And vice versa in other areas. Different system use different charts, so it can be a big factor in system selection.

And while we are throwing around generalizations, here's one to consider.

If you want Consumer Electronics on your boat, buy Garmin,

Simrad/B&G/Lowrence, or Raymarine. By "Consumer Electronics" I mean products that have the latest gadgets and features, work with your phone, socialize, etc. They also need to be updated frequently, things don't always work, and advice like "turn it off an back on again" will solve many problems. Plus product life cycle will be about 3 years start to finish. In a year there will be a newer, better version of what you have, and withing 3 years your product will be obsolete and no longer repairable.

If you want Navigation Equipment on your boat, buy Furuno. By "Navigation Equipment" I mean products that have all the required navigation features, are rock solid in operation, but are slow to have newer features. The product life cycle will be 5-10 years, and you will still have a good shot at repairs on 15-20 year old equipment. It will all "just work" day in an day out.

 

[Wil]

Excuse me--'Ship'

 

[twistedtree]

I tend to agree. I like my radar to just be a radar. I don't even like having AIS targets showing up on radar. People tend to ignore the actual ARPA data, and rely solely on the AIS for collision avoidance. They treat the radar like a big AIS display. It bothers me.

The Rose Point PC Plotter we use at work is excellent. It does just what I want it to do. It shows me where I am on a chart. Unfortunately, Rose Point was recently bought out by someone who offers much more advanced (complicated and expensive) electronic chart display information systems (ECDIS). I'm sure we'll 'upgrade' sometime in the next few years.

I'm nervous about that. Some of the people that will be using it barely know how to make Microsoft Word work, and this is a system will allow you to turn off the blue shading that shows you where the shallow water is. Why the hell would I want that? It's like a new car that allows you to turn off the windshield.

I don't think Rose Point was bought out by anyone. Perhaps you are thinking about Navionics? Or maybe C-Map?

 

[twistedtree]

Excuse me--'Ship'

eh, they are all boats...


The electronics plan will be nearly identical to what I ended up with on the N60.


Furuno Radars. This time two of the 12kw units since I'll have space, and really prefer the track ball control over the silly rocker button to move a cursor.



Furuno sounder. Probably the same little 627



Furuno auto pilot. Really like it, but need to build a take-command switching system for the FFU steering controls which is a nuisance.



Em-Trak Class A AIS. Same as what I had before



Not sure about VHFs. I really like the radio part of the Icom M506, but the N2K interface is still a mess and I don't like giving business to a company that doesn't fix their bugs.


Chart plotting will be Coastal Explorer


What did I miss?

 

[Bigsfish]

Senor Fly. I agree 100%, over half the “stuff” on my Garmins I don’t use or want to know how to use them. My old school dad always bought a new car with an am radio, no ac, now heater (lived in southeast Florida), crank up windows. Funny think is nothing ever broke in his car and he was happy. I’m not that extreme but close. Simple is best.

 

[Wayfarer]

I don't think Rose Point was bought out by anyone. Perhaps you are thinking about Navionics? Or maybe C-Map?

I could be wrong, but that's what the company's electronics guru said. I can't remember who he said bought them out. I don't see anything online about it.