Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-10-2008, 11:35 PM   #1
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 800
Boiled Batteries?

OK, I screwed up my maintainence schedule and let my 2 1/2 YO*lead acid*8d batteries run low on water.* Now they don't seem to be accepting a full charge from my xantrex truecharge 40.

Anything I can do to bring them back?

Thanks
__________________
Advertisement

Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 06:06 AM   #2
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
RE: Boiled Batteries?

You could try a desulphator. I've brought back dead batteries that way, but it takes some time.
http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-...ation/12-volt/
__________________

Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 01:20 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Chris Foster's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Juz-B-Cuz
Vessel Model: 38' Rawson Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Any thoughts on the performance of the powered ones versus the ones that stay attached to the battery all of the time and use the battery energy to power the desulphator??
Chris Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:10 PM   #4
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 800
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Do you reccomend the powered charger types or the chemical you add to the cells?

Doug
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 03:05 PM   #5
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Well, I've never used the chemical additives, nor the 12V powered desulphators. However, the desulphator would probably work just the same whether powered by 110V or 12V, since I'm guessing the 110V model just steps down the voltage anyway. The 12V would use battery power, but at the dock you've probably got the charger on anyway. The good thing about using the 110V one is that when I shut off the shore power, it shuts off as well without me having to do anything, thus not running my 12V power down while cruising. I also use the 110V model in the garage on the truck occasionally.
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 03:41 AM   #6
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Both Equalization and a pulse charger will take care of sulphation , but not the reversion and white crud that takes place when a batt is dried out.

Even ETDA will not help the batt.

Either learn to live with the reduced capacity , or change them out.

FF
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 09:12 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
CamanoFolks's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Whimsy
Vessel Model: Camano 31
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 71
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Just an FYI.* The battery powered desulfators we are using only kick in when the battery voltage reaches 13.5 vdc and drops out when battery voltage drops to 13.2 vdc.* So we desulfate when underway or the genset is charging or we're tied to shore power and we're on float.* Seems to be working as our battery capacity has never been as high as it is now (battery bank is one year old).
CamanoFolks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 11:28 AM   #8
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Yep....I'd say give the equalization mode a try. While it may not bring them back to full capacity, it should help...I have been there...and it did help.
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 04:14 PM   #9
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 800
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Do you guys remember the procedure using my xantrex?

Thanks
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 06:39 PM   #10
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Gentlmen:

Does this thread also apply to AGMs?
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 03:31 AM   #11
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Does this thread also apply to AGMs? confused

Unfortunatly AGM suffer the most from a high voltage overcharging .

Cook the water out and there scrap , NOW!

However for some rare folks that have the ability to actually charge at very high rates , the noisemaker run times can be very reduced.

Check out the great article on Pro boat builder , this month.

FF
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 07:02 AM   #12
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Yea, if you cook what little water there is out of an AGM, it's history, because there's no way to replace it.

However, the pulse*desulphators work great on AGM's.
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 08:14 AM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Boiled Batteries?

ANd it does require active participation on your part. You must check the specific gravity as they equalize and you must add water as needed. Just remember you should never add water while the batteries are under charge.
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 08:15 AM   #14
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:

Gentlmen:

Does this thread also apply to AGMs?
Nobody gave you a straight answer and that answer is NO!
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 03:37 AM   #15
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
RE: Boiled Batteries?

AGM are NEVER Equalized , high V kills them.

If you boil them , you toss them, no second chance with greatly reduced output.

Just scrap.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2008, 08:23 PM   #16
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Boiled Batteries?

We have a Heart Freedom 25 made prior to the Xantrex merger/takeover so I don't know how it compares to the units made under the Xantrex corporate umbrella. I'm pretty sure the equalization cycle has to be started and controlled from the remote panel--- I don't think it can be done at the inverter itself but I could be wrong. It is a timed process and if it runs its full time it takes about eight hours. Battery water MUST be topped off before the equalization process is started, and the battery(s) MUST be at a full charge already.

I have never found it necessary to add water during the equalization process or after it. But this could vary from boat to boat and battery type to battery type as well as the actual condition of the battery(s).

What is REALLY important is that you periodically check the temperature of the battery or batteries (by feel) during the equalization cycle. As the process continues the batteries can get quite warm to really hot. The marine electrical shop that installed our Freedom 25 said that if the batteries start getting really warm, stop the equalization cycle--- it's accomplished what it's supposed to accomplish even if it doesn't run the full cycle time.

FWIW the cycle initiation process on our Freedom 25 is to first disconnect any echo charger wires (the Freedom 25 can accommodate up to two echo chargers) and then with the charger on and the inverter off select "Setup" on the remote panel, then push "Setup" and "Charge" together and hold them down until the three battery condition lights (red, yellow, green) start to sequence rapidly or "flash" as the manual says. Stopping the equalization cycle early is just a matter of pushing the "Charge" button or shutting off the AC power to the inverter/charger and then turning it on again.

It's a good idea to check the water in the battery(s) after equalization to make sure the levels are still good. Also, don't forget to reconnect the echo charger wires if you have echo chargers.

Because equalization shoves a higher than normal voltage into the battery(s)--- up to 16 volts according to the Freedom 25 manual--- it's a good idea not to turn on any DC items on the boat during the cycle--- lights, instruments, electronics, pumps, etc.

It's also REALLY important to ventilate the area where the batteries are. Battery box covers should be removed or opened and the space ventilated so that the potentially explosive battery fumes will be rapidly dissipated. We open a floor hatch and put a small AC fan in the rear of the engine room blowing air to the front where the batteries are and out the engine room air intakes which on our boat are quite large. It's a good idea to check for battery fumes periodically during the equalization cycle to make sure they aren't building up.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 03:59 AM   #17
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Because equalization shoves a higher than normal voltage into the battery(s)--- up to 16 volts according to the Freedom 25 manual--- it's a good idea not to turn on any DC items on the boat during the cycle--- lights, instruments, electronics, pumps, etc

For boats in motion the better 4 stage alt volt regs monitor the bat set temperature AND monitor the vessels / vehicles (many RV use them) electrical demand.

If lights are operated the Equalization is stopped.
Todays electronics don't seem to mind 16v at all.

Pumps love the higher voltage , as does the bow thruster or windlass.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 01:52 PM   #18
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Quote:
FF wrote:


Todays electronics don't seem to mind 16v at all. Pumps love the higher voltage , as does the bow thruster or windlass.
I dunno..... When the inverter/charger manual, our marine electric shop who installed the unit, and our marine electronics shop all caution me NOT to turn on any 12vdc appliances or accessories while the equalization cycle is in progress, my inclination is to figure they all have really good reasons for telling me this. So I always pass this advice along in a discussion of battery equalization. If someone wants to risk finding out if 16 volts is okay for their radios, radar, fresh water pumps, etc, that's fine with me. But boating is expensive enough as it is without adding to the expense by challenging what the equipment manufacturer, installer, and other pros in the business have cautioned me about.

*


-- Edited by Marin at 14:57, 2008-06-15
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2008, 04:47 AM   #19
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
RE: Boiled Batteries?

"If someone wants to risk finding out if 16 volts is okay for their radios, radar, fresh water pumps, etc, that's fine with me."

Motors run far better on higher voltage , all motors, even the blender , happiest is usually the macerator which may have a fair service life if the voltage is kept high.

The modern electronic gadgets accept wide voltage swings , low being harmful.

Simplest is to check DA Book that comes with each toy and read the Mfg specs.

9 to 40V is not uncommon.for a modern nominal 12v toy.

FF
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2008, 01:00 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Chris Foster's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Juz-B-Cuz
Vessel Model: 38' Rawson Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
RE: Boiled Batteries?

Shouldn't be a real problem at 16V. Anuything should be able to take 15V since it's not unheard of for alternator output to go that high (not optimal, just not unheard of). By the time you get to the breaker panel, thru the distribution wiring, and subtract any ground drop, it's not too unusual to lose some voltage by the time you're at the device.

The most likely victims of the extra voltage are light bulbs - they won't blow, but they will have their lifetimes reduced if they're on while equalizing. Especially true of halogen cabin lights, nav & anchor lights, anything that's a "bright" incadescent.
__________________

Chris Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help understanding my batteries 7tiger7 General Discussion 14 03-07-2011 11:47 PM
Checking the batteries Keith Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 8 08-02-2010 04:28 AM
batteries... albin43 Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 6 03-26-2010 09:45 AM
Batteries..... Baker Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 9 10-14-2007 12:04 AM
Batteries - New Technologies marinetrader Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 1 10-07-2007 09:52 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012