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Old 12-30-2013, 01:17 PM   #21
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I should have clarified. I understand the need for the fuze/breaker, but don't know why the pump wasn't wired into the breaker panel.

Jim, Sent from my iPad using Trawler
some previous owners and even yard help are clueless/lazy.....do it in one of the many possible safe manners and move on...I'd go crazy if I dwelled on why my PO did to this poor boat.
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:41 PM   #22
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............I am concerned however that I may have either drain the water tanks prior to working on this pump or have a bung (or two) at the ready to control the water flow while I work on the pump. I'm worried the system will siphon otherwise. I don't believe there is a shutoff on the tank side of the pump.
Take the hose off the inlet to the pump and raise it higher than the water level in the tanks. Or plug the end of the hose.
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:29 PM   #23
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Sorry for the belated late response. I've only just got back to the boat to look at things. As mentioned, it has a 15 amp fuse. The unit is a Shurflo 5901-2212 (Extreme Pro-Blaster). The spec sheet says a 20 amp fuze is recommended. I'm concerned that if I go to a 20 amp fuze it might be too much for the wire. Also, it says this is for wash down applications. Spec sheet says it has a a sealed adjustable pressure switch that will be difficult to get at. There is no in-line strainer.

Would you recommend the installation of shutoff valves either side of the pump? Also is this the correct pump for my application? Spec sheet says.."Marine fresh or salt water wash down installation. Other uses may include 12V DC pressurized water system in cabins. This pump may be used for general water transfer."

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Old 01-04-2014, 01:15 AM   #24
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...I should add that there is also breaker for the FW pump on the DC breaker panel, in addition to the in-line fuze.

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Old 01-04-2014, 07:08 AM   #25
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We always get a deck wash down pump for house Fresh Water service.

Take a look and the motor is usually 2x as long.

This makes it longer lasting. A great idea if it can not be heard , and is not secured after each use.

Your CB on the panel should protect the existing wiring , the 20A fuse, the pump.

These units with a larger motor will start at a higher Amperage , but a CB is slow responding so should not pop.

Running they use about the same amps as the tiny motor style.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:22 AM   #26
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...I should add that there is also breaker for the FW pump on the DC breaker panel, in addition to the in-line fuze.

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I'm assuming there is nothing else connected to the circuit the pump is connected to.

There's no reason to have two overcurrent protection devices on one circuit. Check the gauge of the wiring from the circuit breaker to the pump and back to negative. If it's #12, a 20 amp circuit breaker is appropriate, do away with the fuse. if it's #14 you need a 15 amp circuit breaker and the pump is designed for too much current for your wiring. Replace the wiring or the pump.

While your pump may work for a potable water system, you would be better off with one designed for that use. And you should install a filter just before the pump inlet.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:58 AM   #27
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I should have clarified. I understand the need for the fuze/breaker, but don't know why the pump wasn't wired into the breaker panel.
Maybe because the installer followed Shurflo's installation instructions to the letter without regard to existing wiring, or the existing breaker or wiring may not have been adequate for the new pump.

If the wiring and breaker are adequate, rewire it that way.
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:19 AM   #28
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Check your filter(s)- they could be clogged enough to cause this.

I replaced the pump before i realized it was the filter.
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:26 AM   #29
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>There's no reason to have two overcurrent protection devices on one circuit.>

There are frequently very good reasons to use 2 over current protections on one circuit.

The CB usually protects the wire , the fuse at the user protects the device.

A car radio can be fed with a 10G or 12Ga wire and proper CB , but all it may require is a 5A fuse , so an internal short (deck leak?) will pop the fuse rather than ignite the radio.

This also allows for more than one light user to be on a supply circuit and be protected.

Modern gear can easily be installed , radar used to be a big power draw , today almost minor.

The old heavy radar wiring can still be used to supply the new unit , IF the new unit has its own protection.
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:43 AM   #30
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The CB usually protects the wire m, the fuse at the user protects the device.
If the distribution system has a breaker labeled "pump" then that that breaker protects the branch that supplies the pump. Since the wiring supplying the pump should be properly sized for current and voltage drop for that pump, there is no need to size the breaker for the wire. It should be sized to protect the pump.

Think about it for a moment ... if the pump draws 15 amps maximum it should be fused for around 20A or whatever the manufacturer specifies, the wire should be sized to handle more than 20A, considering the circuit is DC the wiring is probably "oversized" a bit to control voltage drop anyway. So, a fuse rated for the pump is all that is needed. A fault before the pump will pop the breaker and protect the wire, and a fault in the pump may pop the breaker and hopefully prevent a fire.

It is both uneconomical and pointless to have two differently sized circuit protection devices on a branch circuit that supplies one consumer. It is also foolish and dangerous to "steal" power by piggybacking on another branch circuit. That sort of thing is what leads to the light flickering and dimming and loss of electronic readouts (and damage) that we always read about here.

If the breaker on the switchboard or distribution panel says PUMP then that is all it should supply and it and the wire it feeds should be sized accordingly.
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:28 AM   #31
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I also found that the UV water purifier and filter system is on the same circuit breaker as the water pump. I will put a 20 amp fuze in-line for the pump as the manufacturer suggests.

Any thoughts on why this fuze has started blowing when it worked fine during the summer and fall season? Age starting to catch up with the pump? There is a small bit of gurgling when the pump is on indicating some air in the line.

Jim

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Old 01-05-2014, 08:16 PM   #32
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I will try again. My first tome got wiped out, timed out.

With the additional info you added I think more info from you is needed.
-Size of main C.B. supplying the W.pump , filter setup, UV lgt.
-Size of main supply wire from C.B. to the equipment
-is the other equipment fused and the size of those fuses.
-size of the wire to the other equipment
-amp draw of the equipment


Industrially it is common and perfectly good to use a large C.B. and heavier wire, sized for the combined total load, for the bulk of the run untill close to the equipment and then use individual fuses or circuit breakers close to the point of use for individual pieces of equipment.

Most of the equipment I used to work on often brought in a large cable of 480-600V and hundreds of amps capacity into a breaker panel or machine control box. Then each sub piece of equipment , motors, heaters, controls, had their own smaller feeds protected by fuses or C.B.

You case is of course pushing the analogy a lot but it still works. Is there extra C.B. space at the panel as lack of space is often the driver for similar setups. The builder usually does not leave enough spare openings for additional breakers over the years.

In your case If the P.O. used a large C.B. and main supply wire, + & -, large enough to supply adequately and allow for voltage loss, the pieces of equipment you mentioned may be well served as they are, with smaller fuses/C.B. to protect the wiring and equipment beyond. Just be sure the above is paid attention to.

In this case the UV light and filters [?] are not of much use when the pump is out of commission since all work as a system yet each piece will be protected. Of course the sub connections should also be covered and the joins/connections done properly.

Check the fuse holders. Loose clips, springs or dirt/corrosion/oxidation will cause nuisance failures of fuses. The looseness/dirt will create unwarranted heat which will melt the fuse element from the fuse cap inside the fuse body. If the fuse blew from a true overload then usually the narrowed actual fuse section will fail.

If heat from looseness is the problem often the element will be intact but will separate from the cap. Often an ohmmeter is needed to check it.

Same is true for the blade type fuses, ATO.

The pump could also be blowing the fuses now due to the bearings getting tight from rust. Pumps have shaft seals and they can leak allowing water into the motor area causing the bearings to rust. That will cause increased current to be drawn blowing the fuse.

How is the pump oriented? Ideally the motor should be atop the pump. If the pump is atop or even horizontal to the motor, water will have a much easier time entering the motor when the seal fails.

The labouring sound and the gurgling may indicate a leak of water and air past the seal and water damaging the bearings.

It may be time to rebuild the pump including the bearings.

When removing the hoses, quickly raise the ends above the tank if possible and cap and tie them up.

I installed mini handle full flow 1/2" ball valves to close off the supply and output hoses. I also installed BRASS, good quality, threaded hose fittings to easily separate the pump for service. The fittings are installed reversed, supply to output, so the connections will not be easily reversed.

DO NOT USE PLASTIC HOSE FITTINGS. Some may be ok but if not they will blow and make a big mess and you could lose all the water if not caught quickly.
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Old 01-06-2014, 07:00 AM   #33
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>It is also foolish and dangerous to "steal" power by piggybacking on another branch circuit. That sort of thing is what leads to the light flickering and dimming and loss of electronic readouts (and damage) that we always read about here.<
Thats all fine in theory , but few , even big buck boat assemblers ,leave a few dozen unused circuits of various size for the next few decades of future boating desirements .
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Old 01-06-2014, 07:09 AM   #34
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Thats all fine in theory , but few , even big buck boat assemblers ,leave a few dozen unused circuits of various size for the next few decades of future boating desirements .
I have yet to see a "big buck boat" that doesn't have room on the switchboard to install more breakers.

It is low rent to add mystery loads to an existing breaker. If the breaker and wire are adequate for the additional loads, a sub-panel can easily be installed nearby or in the compartment where the loads are located,with breakers or fuses for those loads. If that is done, the breaker feeding the subpanel should be relabeled to show what it supplies.

It costs less to do it right than spend hours or days or have to hire someone to figure out why something doesn't work.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:29 PM   #35
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.................
It costs less to do it right than spend hours or days or have to hire someone to figure out why something doesn't work.
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Old 01-08-2014, 06:48 AM   #36
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It costs less to do it right than spend hours or days or have to hire someone to figure out why something doesn't work.

Except on a used 20-40 year old boat , that is a fantasy.

Reality is usually a snake pit of layers laid on , good enough ?, over the decades.
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Old 01-08-2014, 06:41 PM   #37
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Let's put this another way - If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how are you going to have time to do it over?

Just because other things may have been done incorrectly on your boat (or house or car, etc.) doesn't mean you shouldn't do what you are doing correctly. Take some pride in your work.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:19 PM   #38
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Let's put this another way - If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how are you going to have time to do it over?

Just because other things may have been done incorrectly on your boat (or house or car, etc.) doesn't mean you shouldn't do what you are doing correctly. Take some pride in your work.
the trouble is there is no "correct" way of doing a lot of things on a boat...there's quite a range from extremely dangerous to extreme overkill....

please don't bring pride into it as it take a huge back seat to time available, basic boat construction and layout, budget, reasonableness, etc...etc...
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:07 AM   #39
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please don't bring pride into it as it take a huge back seat to time available, basic boat construction and layout, budget, reasonableness, etc...etc...

Indeed some folks see it as a religion ,, OVERKILL.

Hard to argue with ,>too well done , with too good materials<.
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:52 AM   #40
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In response to the last two posts, I have one question: Do you think the OP's situation where someone tapped off the water pump circuit to add an accessory and then used inline fuses (for whatever reason) to the water pump and we would assume, the accessory, is the "right way"?
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