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Old 03-05-2012, 03:56 AM   #1
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Big Battery Charger

It seems strange but in looking for a battery charger it seems a large 100 to 120 amp 3 bank battery charger can't be found. There are several battery charger/inverter combo's that are this big, but not battery chargers.

Anybody know of any?
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:12 AM   #2
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RE: Big Battery Charger

The bigger problem is that only on dock current or a large 10KW or larger noisemaker could a big charger be expected to produce near rated output..

Want big DC? , get a big alternator and a smart V regulator.
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:29 AM   #3
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Look at Iota Battery Chargers.* You go stack multiple units in series or parallel for increased amperage or voltage.

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls.htm

Why a charger that will charge 3 banks?***
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:19 AM   #4
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Quote:
timjet wrote:
It seems strange but in looking for a battery charger it seems a large 100 to 120 amp 3 bank battery charger can't be found. There are several battery charger/inverter combo's that are this big, but not battery chargers.

Anybody know of any?

It's probably hard to find one because there is little need for one in the recreational boating industry.

Why would you need such a high powered charger?* Will your batteries accept a 120 amp charging current?
*
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:16 AM   #5
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Newmar makes chargers up to 100 amps. We've had very good experience with Newmar products. If you decide to buy one, I'd love the opportunity to quote you on it. http://www.newmarpower.com/Level_2/B..._Chargers.html
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:37 AM   #6
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Quote:
rwidman wrote:

It's probably hard to find one because there is little need for one in the recreational boating industry.

Why would you need such a high powered charger?* Will your batteries accept a 120 amp charging current?
*

*Referencing my "Understanding my Genset Alternator" thread below; I have 4 110 AH AGM's for house bank, soon to be added 2 Engine start wet cells and a single 92 AH genset start battery. It's my understanding the AGM's will take a 100 amp charge each, so with all these batteries I think I need at least a 100 amp charger or the genset is going to run many hours to charge up all these batteries.*

As noted in the referenced thread, my electrical use is about 150 amps per 12 hours period, so a large charger is necessary.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:49 AM   #7
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Big Battery Charger

Quote:
FF wrote:
The bigger problem is that only on dock current or a large 10KW or larger noisemaker could a big charger be expected to produce near rated output..

Want big DC? , get a big alternator and a smart V regulator.
*My genset is 7.5 KW and if my figures are correct: 7500 watts/120volts equals 62.5 amps. I believe the specs on a 100 amp/ 2000 watt magnum charger/inverter states an amp draw of 15 amps when in batt charging mode. Is my thinking not correct??


-- Edited by timjet on Monday 5th of March 2012 09:51:17 AM
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:56 AM   #8
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Quote:
timjet wrote:rwidman wrote:

It's probably hard to find one because there is little need for one in the recreational boating industry.

Why would you need such a high powered charger?* Will your batteries accept a 120 amp charging current?
*

*Referencing my "Understanding my Genset Alternator" thread below; I have 4 110 AH AGM's for house bank, soon to be added 2 Engine start wet cells and a single 92 AH genset start battery. It's my understanding the AGM's will take a 100 amp charge each, so with all these batteries I think I need at least a 100 amp charger or the genset is going to run many hours to charge up all these batteries.*

As noted in the referenced thread, my electrical use is about 150 amps per 12 hours period, so a large charger is necessary.

*Tim,

You don't want to mix wets and AGMs.* Even as separate banks.* Your chargers and Alt regulator can not be set to handle both at the same time.* One or the other. The charging voltages between wet and AGMs*are different as is the program.

You may get away with wet cells for the starts and gen start if you are using an Echo charge but you need to check with the Echo charge folks.* The higher voltage of the AGMs going to your wet cells may boil water out.

Two Grp 31 AGM*as start batteries should be fine.* One might be enough.* It really doesn't take much to start the engine.* It is high draw for such a short period.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:17 AM   #9
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RE: Big Battery Charger

*
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:34 AM   #10
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RE: Big Battery Charger

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JD wrote:
*Tim,

You don't want to mix wets and AGMs.* Even as separate banks.* Your chargers and Alt regulator can not be set to handle both at the same time.* One or the other. The charging voltages between wet and AGMs*are different as is the program.

You may get away with wet cells for the starts and gen start if you are using an Echo charge but you need to check with the Echo charge folks.* The higher voltage of the AGMs going to your wet cells may boil water out.

Two Grp 31 AGM*as start batteries should be fine.* One might be enough.* It really doesn't take much to start the engine.* It is high draw for such a short period.

I believe you are confusing AGM batteries with Gel batteries.

AGM and flooded cell batteries use the same chemistry and the charging is close enough that it's not a problem.* Many chargers use the same setting for both and a different one for Gel batteries.
*
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:02 AM   #11
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Quote:
rwidman wrote:JD wrote:
*Tim,

You don't want to mix wets and AGMs.* Even as separate banks.* Your chargers and Alt regulator can not be set to handle both at the same time.* One or the other. The charging voltages between wet and AGMs*are different as is the program.

You may get away with wet cells for the starts and gen start if you are using an Echo charge but you need to check with the Echo charge folks.* The higher voltage of the AGMs going to your wet cells may boil water out.

Two Grp 31 AGM*as start batteries should be fine.* One might be enough.* It really doesn't take much to start the engine.* It is high draw for such a short period.

I believe you are confusing AGM batteries with Gel batteries.

AGM and flooded cell batteries use the same chemistry and the charging is close enough that it's not a problem.* Many chargers use the same setting for both and a different one for Gel batteries.
*

*You may be correct as to charging rates.* Sorry.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:13 PM   #12
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RE: Big Battery Charger

If the AGM batteries are thin plate technology then the charge characteristics are much different from flooded cells. The best way to charge batteries is to use a charger that will react to the needs of that particuler bank, a multi bank charger will usually react to the active bank and the other banks will be over charged. Check the battery recommended charge and look at how the charger works, hopefully it is fully adjustable and doesn't just use presets.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:39 PM   #13
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RE: Big Battery Charger

The charger should correctly charge what ever kind of batteries you have.*That is why I have recommended having more than one charger and being able to gang charge the batteries.*The best bang for the buck is still the good old flood/wet cells for start and/or deep cycle house as they do not require a fancy expensive charger.* Gel and AGM are not recommend as a start battery and both require a 14.2+ volt and a 3 stage charger.* So before you spend the money make sure you have the correct charger and understand the battery requirement.* The gel over all is a better house battery than the AGM.*****
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:05 PM   #14
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Quote:
timjet wrote:FF wrote:
The bigger problem is that only on dock current or a large 10KW or larger noisemaker could a big charger be expected to produce near rated output...

*My genset is 7.5 KW and if my figures are correct: 7500 watts/120volts equals 62.5 amps. I believe the specs on a 100 amp/ 2000 watt magnum charger/inverter states an amp draw of 15 amps when in batt charging mode. Is my thinking not correct??


-- Edited by timjet on Monday 5th of March 2012 09:51:17 AM

Tim:* You're right but I think you will only get the published output out of your charger/inverter*under the conditions that FF*has stated.* I don't know the reason why but that's been our experience and we have learned to live with it.**We have a 125 amp charger on our 2800 watt inverter and get ~102 amps max out of the charger powered by an 8kW generator.* Our last boat had basically the same specs on the charger/inverter with a smaller (5kW) generator and we saw the same thing.* We have now added a second 40 amp charger and get a maximum of about 132 amps out* both chargers running at the same time, about 80% of the charger specs combined before they taper off.* Maybe someone can explain why?
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:04 PM   #15
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Typical (Sears Diehard Platinum Marine for instance) AGM batteries can be dropped in place of flooded cell batteries with no adjustment to either the engine's alternator/charging system, or an external charger powered by shorepower or a genset. These batteries are fine for starting the engines or genset.

These AGM batteries cost a little more than the equivalent flooded cell batteries, but they do not need periodic inspection and topping off with water. On some boats (mine) this is a significant advantage as the batteries can be hard to get to and hard to see into or add water to.

While Gel batteries may or may not be better than AGM or flooded cell batteries for a house bank, having a combination of Gel and AGM or flooded cell batteries on a boat really complicates the charging system. Seperate appropriate chargers can be connected for genset or shorepower charging, but it would be very difficult to rig the engines to supply a proper charging voltage and current for two different requirements. Flooded cell or AGM batteries are much more readily available than Gel batteries if you find tourself needing a battery in a hurry in some out of the way place.
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:46 PM   #16
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RE: Big Battery Charger

Thanks Ron.

From my research you are correct, mixing wet cell and AGM's is OK because the bulk and float charges are very close. No so with*Gel Cell's

I'm still trying to decide on a battery charger. There are some pretty cheap ones out there that I don't think will hold up in a marine environment.

I have a 30 amp 3 bank Charles battery charger and wonder if I can incorporate this into my future setup. I'm thinking of moving all my house batteries to one battery bank, that;s 4 AGM with a total of 440 AH, buy a charger for these batteries and use the current 30 amp Charles charger to charge the gen start and engine start batteries which are on separate banks.

I think I still need a 100 amp charger or one close to that capacity if I don't want to run the genset for hours. Using 150 amps every 12 hrs would require an hour and a half gen run time with a 100 amp charger. Actually it's much longer than that because from what a tech at Magnum said AGM's will take 100% charge until 80% full then the AGM's acceptance charge falls off rapidily, like a wet cell.* BD has mentioned that AGM acceptance rate is 100% until full. Which ever is true I can accept an 80% charge which should take an hour.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:43 PM   #17
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RE: Big Battery Charger

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timjet wrote:
Thanks Ron.

From my research you are correct, mixing wet cell and AGM's is OK because the bulk and float charges are very close. No so with*Gel Cell's

I'm still trying to decide on a battery charger. There are some pretty cheap ones out there that I don't think will hold up in a marine environment.

You're welcome.

I wouldn't use anything but a charger designed and built for marine use on a boat.* And if your boat is gasoline powered and the charger is in the engine space, you need an ignition protected charger as well.

There are a few well respected brands so try to select one of them.* Their customer service people may be able to help with your choice.

My choice was a Pro Mariner when I had to replace a failed Xantrex charger a year or so ago.

*
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:52 AM   #18
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Big Battery Charger

" about 80% of the charger specs combined before they taper off. Maybe someone can explain why? "

Small noisemakers make some power , but the sine wave they produce does not have the power of a shore power sine wave, its as tall (the voltage is OK) but never as broad .

Power is ALL the area included in the sine wave so a skinny wave has less power to offer the batt charger.

Also many batt chargers rating is BS, they claim and make full rated out on a dead battset 10.5V or similar.

Far different concept to make that full rated output at 14.4 , do the watts and see.

*

10.5 x 100=** or 14.4 x 100=


-- Edited by FF on Tuesday 6th of March 2012 05:55:07 AM
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:00 PM   #19
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both chargers running at the same time, about 80% of the charger specs combined before they taper off.* Maybe someone can explain why? [/QUOTE]


That brings up a question. Would there be a problem with charging a 3 bank set up if one charger was connected to charge all 3, and an inverter charger was connected as an additional charger to the house bank? Moonstruck has a 12 kw generator, and should well be able to handle the load.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:41 AM   #20
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For the fastest charge of a batt set that has the ability to accept a huge charge , an alternator and smart regulator still makes the most sense.

A small charger can handle the tiny loads of the starts.

The alt setup should monitor the batt case temps during the charge.

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