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Old 08-06-2010, 01:45 PM   #21
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

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FF wrote:Burying rotten plywood and glass with yet another heavy layer of plywood and glass is still not a "fix".
Totally agree.* But .... if it buys me 10 years ...

I'm just guessing here, but the additional effort to take up the layer of glass, dig out the soupy core then re-core sounds like a substantial amount of extra work.* Double the effort?* I dunno.*
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:03 AM   #22
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

dig out the soupy core then re-core

You didn't read my version of a cure,

You peal off the teak , glass on top (even if it has to be faired with Bondo) lay the foam core in and glass the deck top surface.

No fixing or messing with the rot , it will dry out and only stink on really wet days.

Structurally it will be stronger than the origional.
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:32 AM   #23
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best lower helm electronics?

FF, apart from the concept of using a foam (synthetic) core instead of the marine ply I suggested, (which I admit might be even better than ply), how does your 'fix' differ from mine. I might add what was done on my boat was to use thick treated ply, (not even marine grade actually, as that only differs in that the grains are better with no knots etc, wasted when sealed in layers of GRP), however if has lasted 10 years and no sign of any issues, because sealed in GRP as it is now, with no teak decking piercing it, it is still dry and stiff.
I therefore think, know in fact, it is a viable alternative when in the position Lurker (Darrell) is in, when the boat really does not justify the more expensive re-coring operation.* And it does not smell, even on the wettest days.* Don't dismiss the idea Darrell, but the idea of using foam core instead of ply is probably best if not too expensive.


-- Edited by Peter B on Saturday 7th of August 2010 05:40:05 AM
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:45 AM   #24
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

Ah, I got it now.* And, I'm liking the idea more and more.* It's not a project for this weekend, I have enough going on in my life as it is.* But, I now have a solution to work with that seems within my skill set and and finances.

Thanks guys!
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Old 08-08-2010, 05:20 AM   #25
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

After the teak is removed , and the first layers of glass , say 3 layers of 1 1/2 oz matt , or better 1 1/2 mat 24oz woven roving and another layer of mat , the deck may be OK for inland cruising.

It will be water tight , but not at all stiff , any stiffness will come from the structure below , maybe enough?

But ,if it is reasonable stiff you can take a year off , save cash and install say 3/4 foam and the proper glass on top. A real cure.

Cheap sand paint would be a bear if chosen as no skid during this phase , as sanding up sand paint is messy.

A better solution is commercial no skid , usually ground walnut shells, far easier to later remove.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:05 AM   #26
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

So I bought one of those $30 GPS/USB gizmos, downloaded a free copy of OpenCPN and some NOAA charts, installed on an old laptop and I'll be danged if that thing doesn't work slicker than snot on a doorknob!* I almost like it better than my Garmin chart-plotter.* Excellent for the lower helm, too much stuff to fool with on the fly bridge.* And, it's in color and on a big screen.* Very nice.* Thanks for the heads-up.
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:17 AM   #27
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

I'm looking at a total electronics upgrade next Spring. Seriously considering using the Furuno NaveNet 3d chart plotter. Would connect to it over the network from the down below steering station using my laptop and their software, MaxSea Time Zero. Cost is >$1000 but I will get everything that the chart plotter gets, even 100% control of my radar and the weather station. So its a lot more than simply chart plot software.

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Old 08-25-2010, 11:40 AM   #28
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

Wow, talk about thread drift lower helm electronics=deck repair? Anyway, we use a computer at the lower helm connected to a Garmin hand held and sitting under the front window it has never lost the signal. The hand held can do double duty when needed. the computer can be connected to another monitor for the upper bridge if you like. Depending on which software you use, you can integrate radar and lots of other electronics to your computer. It depends on how complicated you want to get. We prefer the laptop at the lower helm to our plotter at the upper helm but the disadvantages of the computer on the flybridge makes this combination work for us. Our flybridge is completely open except for the bimini.
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Old 08-27-2010, 12:03 PM   #29
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

Capn Chuck what software are you using on the laptop?** Is it one that can integrate radar, etc?*

Has anyone used SeaCear?* It is another free software I saw mentioned on a different boating site.

I have my USB GPS receiver on order!** Can't wait to play with some new toys (mostly the NEW BOAT!!)

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Old 08-27-2010, 02:43 PM   #30
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

Jennifer, We are not big on integration. We have used Seaclear for a long time and like its simplicity. But it takes some getting used to. Let me know and I can send you a link to a site that has a good tutorial on it. We currently use an older version of Capn we have been using for years. It allows us to download the free NOAA charts and use them, or pretty much any other chart we can get on the computer. Chuck
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:27 PM   #31
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

thanks for the info Chuck.* We are looking forward to trying out the systems currently on the boat we are buying.* Everything is separate and we are used to them all being integrated (sailboats only have so much room by the wheel).* The only thing I would for sure want to integrate is an AIS receiver but that appears to be easily done.**We are thinking it might be preferable to have the radar on its own screen as it tends to clutter up the chart.* and heck, there is all that room!

We went on a long trip last month (sailboat)*using both a Raymarine chartplotter and Raymarine nav software on a laptop.* It seemed like we got more info from the computer so I was not sure why we were killing our batteries running both!!* That definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities of using a laptop as a chartplotter.**

There is no chart plotter on the new boat.* The current owner said "the GPS works but the display is bad".* How do you know the GPS is working if there is no display???* does he mean the antenna works?* Guess we'll learn more*once we start playing with things.* The owner is a sweetheart and has owned the boat for 18 years but he was not familiar with the electronics at all.*

If you wouldn't mind passing on that site with*the SeaClear tutorial, I will definitely take a look!* I'd love to play with the software on our labor day cruise.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:18 PM   #32
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

Jennifer

Give openCPN a try also as you will find it has all the features but very easy to use. Easier than SeaClear I think.

I have got a pro master that used Capn but he thinks open CPN is just as good with a few less features but more than enough for weekend boaties

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Old 08-27-2010, 05:28 PM   #33
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

thanks Allan I will check that out as well.*
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:28 AM   #34
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

Glad this thread got back on track as very interesting to me. As we are getting near the stage of installing electronics, I was trying to decide weather to put in two displays, one upper, one lower, or just an upper where 99% of the driving is done, and use the trusty laptop at the lower helm. Even at wholesale, and with all the work yet to be done to the interior, I was not liking the idea of two displays....

On a side note, I am glad I don't have to worry about deck rot, that sounds like ALOT of work...I just lay awake at night thinking about my zinc's and stray current....
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:09 AM   #35
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

Tim
I suggest you go read the thread I started Furuno NavNet 3d

I discuss the very same dilemma you are describing.

I'm installing a new Furuno system on my fly bridge and will use the laptop for those occassional times that I need to steer from down below. The Furuno MaxSea Time Zero laptop software allows me to have 100% access to everything the chart plotter has, including radar, routes, waypoints, weather data, etc.

R.
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:16 AM   #36
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

We just got our boat last week and went on our first cruise over the long weekend.* We had loaded opencpn onto our laptop,*downloaded the approriate charts had the GPS dongle all hooked up.* And didn't use it other than to show someone at the cruise out how cool it was.* We navigated from the upper helm with two iphones, one running the Navionics iphone app ($9.99) and one using ship finder AIS to keep an eye on ferries and freighters.* I think the laptop will be great down below but I am not sure how much we will be down there.***Now we are looking at "best UPPER helm electronics" LOL.* We are thinking an iPad but have heard it is impossible to see the screen in sunlight.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:32 AM   #37
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RE: best lower helm electronics?

Dont underestimate the engineering that goes into producing a dedicated chart plotter, including the READABILITY in bright ambient conditions, the dedicated processor and memory and storage. Its a dedicated device essentially even thought its called multi-function because it can also be used to show depth,* weather, camera video, etc.

I look at this this way.

There is no greater reliability and availability than up to date paper charts. Its always there and readable, even if the power goes out.

Second to that is a dedicated chart plotter whose engineering and production history now has shown extremely good reliability and availability. Most users of these devices are quite happy and have learned to rely on them.

Then you have the laptop PC or handheld data device, which was designed for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT purpose, but now has the ability to run the application program to provide your needed nav info. The reliability and availability of THESE DEVICES is much lower than a dedicated chart plotter.

R.
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