Battery replacement

[JD]

bobofthenorth wrote:JD wrote:Keep in mind the 4D's are not true deep cycle where as the golf cart 6V are.4D, 8D, Group 31 are all form factor descriptors.* They say nothing about the technology inside the case.**But the important takeaway is that the form size doesn't say anything about what's inside.

*But what the battery was designed for from the get go is also important.* And 8D and 4D were for the most part used as starting batteries for large trucks.* So what some builder puts on the case in wording isn't always the where all or be all.* They can't be both, or rather should not be used for*both.*

6V golf cart batteries have been designed for deep cycle due to the kind of service they get.

 

[bobofthenorth]

Call me naive but I like to believe the mfr specs at least until I see a good reason not to do so.

 

[Fighterpilot]

FlyWright, yes the boat we finally bought was the first LRC we looked at in the spring. Subsequent to that one we look at bayliners, had a contract on a 36 Chris Craft, sea trialed two bayliners, and two LRCs, and went back to the 34LRC when we saw it on ebay for a lot less than spring price. Plus it was only 60 miles from home dock.

 

[chc]

Originally, our boat had 2 8D's buried behind the port engine for start & anchor windlass. 4 6V golf cart batteries wired to essentially produce a bank of 2 12V batteries for the house use. These were buried behind the starboard engine ( Detroit 8.2's). Service to either bank was ugly. Given that we cruise w/o much marina use, and don't have AC or an onboard generator, I pulled all the old batteries & paid the yard muscle to put in 2 8D AGM's on each side. No mess, no fuss, no crawling around checking cell water levels & a week later finding new holes in whatever I was wearing that day. However simple that turned out to be, I suspect that 4D AGM's may very well be our next choice due to weight & space requirements.

 

[Edelweiss]

bobofthenorth wrote:JD wrote:
*Keep in mind the 4D's are not true deep cycle where as the golf cart 6V are.

4D, 8D, Group 31 are all form factor descriptors.* They say nothing about the technology inside the case.* This is probably a gross oversimplification but I believe the difference is related to the thickness of the plates.* More, thinner plates allows a larger current outflow for a start application.* Less, thicker plates is more suited to deep cycle applications.* But the important takeaway is that the form size doesn't say anything about what's inside.

Yes 4D is the form factor and they come in either a Standard or Deep Cycle versions.* Interstate Batteries for example sells both an industrial 4D starting battery (commonly used in transit buses and my boat) and a 4D Deep Cycle battery (which does what it's name implies).*

They are designed for*different purposes and have different internal components. Their outer case appearance and the liquid*acid design are what they have in common.********

 

[FF]

The plates , insulation and internal construction between Starts and Deep Cycle batts will be very different ,

but the WEIGHT of the lead is what you pay for.

 

[Fighterpilot]

Stopped by Sams and they have all kinds of starting batteries as well as the 6volt golf cart batteries. Form factor numbers go clear up to the 70s and 90s numbers. Just have to sort out the hook ups, CCA, and the weight. On the 6volts, hook ups, AHr, weight, and price. Thanks for the information. It would appear that I could get them all at Sams at a reasonable price.

 

[bobofthenorth]

FF wrote:
The plates , insulation and internal construction between Starts and Deep Cycle batts will be very different ,

but the WEIGHT of the lead is what you pay for.

Ain't that the truth!* The harder they are to wrastle into place the more amp-hours they will deliver.* The 6 Volt golf cart batteries typically deliver the most power/weight for the least cost but at the expense of many more connections which come with their own set of challenges.

I've got 3 x 8D Lifeline AGMs in the bus.* I hate moving them around but fortunately I don't have to except for when I initially put them in place 8 years ago now.* Gray Hawk has 8 x 6v Trojans that have to be watered regularly.* I like the AGMs better.* The price premium is worthwhile IMHO.

*

 

[Codger2]

bobofthenorth wrote:
I've got 3 x 8D Lifeline AGMs in the bus.* I hate moving them around but fortunately I don't have to except for when I initially put them in place................

******** I have had the same experience. Yes, they are heavy and hard to move around but once in place it's "heaven" for a very long time. There will be those that swear by wet cells but most have not wanted to spend the extra money for AGMs. No contest...it's AGMs, hands down.

 

[bshanafelt]

sometimes you can get a great price on agm's.

When I upgraded my house bank some 4 years ago, I had planned on using 6v wets, which were priced around $120/ for Trojans. I thought I would shop around to see what else was out there.

I found a battery wholesaler in Everett, who had comparable 6v's in AGM - the brand was Fullriver - chinese.

Of course a bit leary of the quality etc of anything coming out of a Chinese factory, I did some research a found that this particular brand had a very good rep.


I ended up buying 12ea. of the AGM 6v batteries - I can actually get quite a few more units in the space as battery boxes were no longer needed, and I could orient some of the batteries on a slight slope.


The price of these batteries at the time were $165/ea. To me, well worth the price bump.



So far, the bank is tremendous, and no measurable loss of capacity.

 

[Fighterpilot]

Do you have all AGM batteries. I plan on using lead acid for start hence didn't think I ought to mix lead acid an other batteries and I wanted the start batteries to have the high CCA. For price consideration had to use Lead Acid for them. Thanks

 

[Moonstruck]

Fighterpilot wrote:
Do you have all AGM batteries. I plan on using lead acid for start hence didn't think I ought to mix lead acid an other batteries and I wanted the start batteries to have the high CCA. For price consideration had to use Lead Acid for them. Thanks

*No, if they are on the same charger, you shouldn't mix types or age of batteries. *Moonstruck has two 500np engines. *2 group 31 AGMs do the job of starting quite nicely. *We have a group 27 to start the 12kw NL generator, and 8 Ds on the house bank.

 

[bobofthenorth]

On the boat I have all Trojans - no separate bank - the house bank starts the Lehmans and theres a single 4D to start the gennie.* On the bus I have 3 x 8D AGM deep cycles for a house bank and 2 x 8D lead acid start batts for the start bank.* If/when I replace the house bank I will replace all 5 8Ds with AGM deep cycles and use the entire bank as a combined house/start bank.* That's unusual in the bus world but I think not so uncommon on boats.* Switching to AGMs is also the plan for the boat whenever the Trojans die a natural or unnatural death - I'm more likely to kiil them than they are to die.* On the bus the two banks are tied together when we're going down the road so the alternator charges both banks - I guess that's not ideal (having the deep cycle AGMs and the lead acid starts charging at the same time) but 8 years into their life it doesn't appear to have any ill effects.* When we're parked the connection drops out and the inverter supplemented by the solar controller takes over charging duties.

 

[FF]

I guess that's not ideal (having the deep cycle AGMs and the lead acid starts charging at the same time) but 8 years into their life it doesn't appear to have any ill effects.

All the batts sets see is VOLTAGE , so if the top charge is not too high for the AGM , no problems.

Trojan 6V deep cycles are $90 each less 5% for cask outside Ft Meyers.

A reasonable price .

 

[Ron T]

Blue Seas is coming out with a new line called Pacific Battery Charger in 20-30-40 amp unit. one charger will have the settings to charge one wet bank, one AGM bank and one Gell bank. So if you have wet batts for start and AGms or Gils for the house it will take care of different top end voltage requirements. Hoping to get mine soon.

 

[Fighterpilot]

What do you do with your alternator for the different types of batteries?

 

[FF]

"What do you do with your alternator for the different types of batteries?"

Hook the Voltage regulator to "see" the bat set that requires the highest voltage.

Hook the voltage regulation thermometer to the house set IF you have a 3 stage regulator and a huge alternator.