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Old 02-03-2015, 01:16 AM   #41
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I have a question: When the engine is running The alternator is charging the batteries.
Does the voltage regulator automatically know what type of battery you are charging?
and if you had two different types of batteries that take different charges wouldn't that really screw things up??


I have to go stare at it and scratch my head for a while.


SD
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:25 AM   #42
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OK guys here it is. I did not want to take over this thread. Maybe this will put it to bed.

Battery Saga
Hey BlueYonder,

Here it is. I live an 11 hour drive from my boat. Because of obligations at home, I may be away from the boat for fairly long periods.

I hired a crew of "ladies" to detail the boat. I never leave the air conditioners running. When I got to the boat time before last the air conditioning cooling water pump was running. Well, the "lady" came by for money, and I asked about the A/C being on. She said that it was only on for a couple of days. I showed her moss growing under the outlet. That had never happened before,. They weren't through. So, I told her to stay out of the electrical box, and turn no switches.

When I got back to the boat last time, several switches had been turn on, and the battery charger had been turned off. The house bank consisting of 2 LifeLine AGM 8d batteries was completely flat. Absolutely no register on any meter. I tried several days to do a reconditioning charge, but they would only accept about a 60% charge. Even with lite loading they would be down to 50% in about an hour. They were trashed.

We had planned a 10 day cruise down to Biscayne Bay and the upper Keys. I had to order the batteries, put flag terminals on them. By that time it was too late to go.

I fired the "ladies", and changed the lock on the boat. What a disaster.

Don
What age were the Lifelines??? This is relevant to the topic since this is the exact scenario I rationalize the extra money for AGM. My boat is rarely unattended for long periods of time. But I consider some of the extra money paid for AGM batteries insurance for events like this. Obviously it did not pay off in this case....unless the batteries were on their way out anyway.
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:32 AM   #43
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The ,advantage, of AGM is with a huge source you can charge them faster than LA.

So few folks have 150+ amps of charging available that LA is usually chosen.

Locally , Ft Myers ,the batt guy gets $88 each for Trojan 105 cash with core required.

$98 for plastic pay.+ core.
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:38 AM   #44
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There are other advantages FF. Basically all of the disadvantages of LA are not present in the AGM. One is that they can accept a bigger charge as you have stated. But they also store well without a float charge. They can also remain in a depleted state without damage(in theory....as Don's experience did not adhere to that theory). They do not gas. They do not spill. They do not require filling of water, etc.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:22 AM   #45
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I go top brand LA... all the way! Inexpensive comparatively, easy to maintain if charge system is set up correctly and batts are in easily accessible location. Use little water if not "boiled" by having charger on too often (check/fill water-level once or twice a year). Last for many years if not abused by too deep draw-downs or left drawn down for long periods. I always make sure 100% charged when leaving boat for any length of time.


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Old 02-03-2015, 08:56 AM   #46
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SD, I have three banks----house, engine starting, and generator starting all are AGMs. I have two 80 amp alternators charging through a combiner. According to my battery monitor about 100-120 amps is the max they will put into the house bank. That's about a 20-23% of capacity charge rate. That seems to do the job.

Baker, About 4 years old. Since the "ladies" have lied to me before, I have no idea how long they stayed flat. Maybe 4-5 weeks. At least the combiner protected my other banks.

Art, I use AGMs for several reasons. One is I am not there to tend them all the time. Two the house bank resides under my generator. It would be difficult to slide them out for servicing. Three I can charge them faster without worrying.

Edit: Baker, the Lifelines had a 5 year prorated warranty. That would be against list price which would still make them about $800.00. I thought the Dekas were the best deal at $485.00 ea.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:16 AM   #47
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OK guys here it is. I did not want to take over this thread. Maybe this will put it to bed.

Battery Saga
Hey BlueYonder,

Here it is. I live an 11 hour drive from my boat. Because of obligations at home, I may be away from the boat for fairly long periods.

I hired a crew of "ladies" to detail the boat. I never leave the air conditioners running. When I got to the boat time before last the air conditioning cooling water pump was running. Well, the "lady" came by for money, and I asked about the A/C being on. She said that it was only on for a couple of days. I showed her moss growing under the outlet. That had never happened before,. They weren't through. So, I told her to stay out of the electrical box, and turn no switches.

When I got back to the boat last time, several switches had been turn on, and the battery charger had been turned off. The house bank consisting of 2 LifeLine AGM 8d batteries was completely flat. Absolutely no register on any meter. I tried several days to do a reconditioning charge, but they would only accept about a 60% charge. Even with lite loading they would be down to 50% in about an hour. They were trashed.

We had planned a 10 day cruise down to Biscayne Bay and the upper Keys. I had to order the batteries, put flag terminals on them. By that time it was too late to go.

I fired the "ladies", and changed the lock on the boat. What a disaster.

Don
You forgot to include the part about the UFOs
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:35 AM   #48
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You forgot to include the part about the UFOs
Yeah, I also skipped the part about the water buffaloes. I used them to do the heavy lifting on the 180# batteries.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:43 AM   #49
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There are other advantages FF. Basically all of the disadvantages of LA are not present in the AGM. One is that they can accept a bigger charge as you have stated. But they also store well without a float charge. They can also remain in a depleted state without damage(in theory....as Don's experience did not adhere to that theory). They do not gas. They do not spill. They do not require filling of water, etc.
My understanding is that they survive an unusually deep discharge with less damage than an FLA, but they do not do well if left discharged deeply for a long time, or if not pretty fully recharged most of the time.

Another advantage, for those of us who store the boat over a cold winter, is that they are less susceptible to freezing damage.
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Old 02-04-2015, 06:14 AM   #50
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The usual LA looses 1/2% (new) to 3% (almost shot) of its charge per day.

A fully charged batt will seldom freeze , but a dead one will.

The fact that AGM loose slower than LA makes them better for winter storage with no power for 5 or 6 months.

We have wintered with old LA with an 85W solar panel , that charges each time the snow melts , with no hassles.

Lots cheaper than an AGM , and with only a 135A truck alt faster charging doesnt come up.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:10 PM   #51
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And if you're curious why it won't freeze when fully charged, look at the difference in freeze points. Info is from Trojan Batteries:

"The only way that a battery can freeze is if it is left in a state of partial or complete discharged. As the state of charge in a battery decreases, the electrolyte becomes more like water and the freezing temperature increases. "

"The freezing temperature of the electrolyte in a fully charged battery is - 92F ( -69C). At a 40% state of charge, electrolyte will freeze if the temperature reaches 16F (-9C) degrees."
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:10 PM   #52
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I have not had good experiences with AGM batts. 6V LA GCs on the other hand have exceeded my expectations by far. I have 8 T105s and a pair of 2000 watt inverter/chargers that can charge at a combined 200 amps and a 15 kw gen. ZERO issues in 5 years, just check the water and add a little sometimes.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:53 PM   #53
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Don`s sad story reminds me of the ICU ward story where patients in one particular bed, one after the other, hooked up to monitors and machines, were dying overnight. Eventually a night surveillance camera was installed. Next morning showed Gladys the cleaner, unplugging the electric cord to the various machines, dutifully hoovering, then plugging the removed cord back in.
Not true, of course, or is it.
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:39 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperdude View Post
I have a question: When the engine is running The alternator is charging the batteries.
Does the voltage regulator automatically know what type of battery you are charging?
and if you had two different types of batteries that take different charges wouldn't that really screw things up??


I have to go stare at it and scratch my head for a while.


SD
Dave, my stbd alternator knows the type of house battery bank b/c it's got an external, programmable Balmar regulator. My port alternator charging the start battery doesn't know with its internal dumb regulator.

I recabled my boat so that the alternator charge goes directly from the alternator to the respective battery. If I need to share the charge from one side to the other, I flip the switch on the combiner to tie the 2 banks together during charging.
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