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Old 09-03-2013, 09:06 AM   #21
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PS.... Based on the logic of the people who like wet cell batteries, we'd all be driving gasoline powered boats!!....ie diesel engines provide only slightly better performance and efficiency and are easier to maintain, but they cost a whole heckuva lot more money!!!
I guess following that logic and your devotion to exotic battery technology, we should be looking for you in a Prius trawler soon.

Ted
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:17 AM   #22
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I am at a loss why people "maintain" batteries...sure I check them randomly every couple of trips or weeks as the case may be...but I haven't added water to any flooded cell batts in years on my boat and several work boats I run.

If you are boiling off water....maybe it's not the batteries fault.

You need to be checking the connections for looseness and corrosion far more often than water in my book.

So while I appreciate AGMs for what they are...I don't get where flooded are that much trouble...

If you can't easily get to your batteries...as important as they are to getting around...just to be able to visually check and a couple quick tugs regularly...they should be readily accessible in any boat.

Oh well...I'd rather spend the money on my genset to run my ac even though I have a white boat and a manson supreme....
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:21 AM   #23
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So while I appreciate AGMs for what they are...I don't get where flooded are that much trouble..
I agree. Most of it is advertising hype, very good hype too. Taking a step back, the logic of buying a 2 or 3X the cost battery to do essentially the same job with about the same longevity is a great marketing success.

I have two AGMs under the forward cabin sole for the thruster, a good choice for the relatively unventilated interior location.

As psneeld says, if your batteries are boiling off water maybe it is not the battery. Check for overfilling or a bad charger.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:35 AM   #24
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PS.... Based on the logic of the people who like wet cell batteries, we'd all be driving gasoline powered boats!!....ie diesel engines provide only slightly better performance and efficiency and are easier to maintain, but they cost a whole heckuva lot more money!!!
Well, I strongly disagree with almost everything said.

Wet cell batteries have their place: long life, easy to measure state of charge, cheap. The one real drawback is that you do have to check electrolyte levels periodically. I typically have to add water once or twice each year.

So preferring wet cells doesn't make me a Luddite. It makes me a hands on boater.

Diesels are a lot more efficient than gasoline engines. A modern diesel produces 18-20 hp per gph and a fuel injected gasser produces 11-13 hp per gph.

Modern diesels require more maintenance: Ignore fuel filtration and water removal and you can trash a common rail diesel. A high output diesel requires servicing of its air cooler. Neither of these are issues on a gasser.

Diesels do cost about twice what a gasser costs but they do last a lot longer.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:12 AM   #25
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I guess following that logic and your devotion to exotic battery technology, we should be looking for you in a Prius trawler soon.

Ted
Actually, quite the opposite. I was doing my yard the other day and my leaf blower and weed eater are made by Homelite(my chainsaw too). And I thought to myself, I have had these yard "implements" for 9 years and have done absolutely nothing to them but put gas/oil in them. They sit around all Winter totally inactive. And then start right up the next season. My leaf blower was $49 and my weed eater $39!!

Then I began fantasizing about a Homelite powered trawler.......

Back on subject, my batteries are not boiling off water. They are all Full...and still near death at 4 years old. I have only owned this boat a few months so have no clue how they were treated before me.

There are "unplanned" events that can occur that will harm certain types of batteries over another type. Like somebody turning off your shore power...or a breaker popping. Your wet cell batteries drain down(Fridge)....and then sit for a week in a depleted condition without a charge. Quite possibly the worst thing you could do to a wet cell battery. And that is what recently happened on my boat and is likely what finished them off. Maybe you are at anchor and not worried about managing power because the genset is on and you are pulling many amp hours and don't realize you forgot to turn the battery charger on and you have been running like this for 2 or 3 days....a deep discharge....again, wet cell batteries do not like that sort of treatment and if you have a few events like this on your battery bank, their life will be shortened. An AGM battery would be much more tolerant of this sort of treatment.

So I will agree....In a vacuum, maybe AGMs are not worth it. Add a little real life abuse and maybe a few imperfect events, and then they might be....along with the fact that they are maintenance free and do not spill and are much more resistance to physical movement(ie vibration) and are much more tolerant to differing charging profiles and cycles....

Thanks for the input!!! It is greatly appreciated!
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:20 AM   #26
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So preferring wet cells doesn't make me a Luddite. It makes me a hands on boater.
I'm sticking with my analogy. And just because I might prefer AGMs does not mean I am not a hands on boater....it just means I may prefer to put my hands somewhere else!
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:23 AM   #27
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There are "unplanned" events that can occur that will harm certain types of batteries over another type. Like somebody turning off your shore power...or a breaker popping. Your wet cell batteries drain down(Fridge)....and then sit for a week in a depleted condition without a charge.
That's exactly what happened to me last week. Forgot to switch on the charger (first time) while the boat sat in the marina with shore power hooked up. The house AGMs were down to 19% charge after one week's time due to the refrigerator. The four-hour Napa River run brought them up to 80%. Checked on them a couple days later and they were back to 100% after being charged from shore power.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:34 AM   #28
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If your battery system is working for you, is there a reason you want to change your system? Unless you need more battery capacity, it sounds like your "simple 12 volt system" has served you well? How many years do your current batteries last you? That's usually a good measure of your battery systems health. Anything over 7 or 8 years and you're doing good.
I am not looking into changing the system. Just the battery type. And if you are getting 7-10 years on your batteries, you are doing much better than most.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:38 AM   #29
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That's exactly what happened to me last week. Forgot to switch on the charger (first time) while the boat sat in the marina with shore power hooked up. The house AGMs were down to 19% charge after one week's time due to the refrigerator. The four-hour Napa River run brought them up to 80%. Checked on them a couple days later and they were back to 100% after being charged from shore power.
That is the kinds of things that happen when people use their boats!!!! We may not be perfect.....but we are having fun!!!!
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:06 PM   #30
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I guess following that logic and your devotion to exotic battery technology, we should be looking for you in a Prius trawler soon.
That would suit me to a "T". I'm on my 3rd Prius since 2007 (I lease my cars) and love them! BTW, I don't add water to my hybrid battery either, Must be an AGM? (of sorts)
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:40 PM   #31
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That would suit me to a "T". I'm on my 3rd Prius since 2007 (I lease my cars) and love them! BTW, I don't add water to my hybrid battery either, Must be an AGM? (of sorts)
Probably not AGM as the weight to amp hours isn't good. More likely they are NiMh or Li-ion.

Guess hybrids are good for city driving. I'm a highway driver, and nothing beats the simplicity (reliability) and fuel efficiency of a good diesel vehicle (IMO).

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:45 PM   #32
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Probably not AGM .......
I know....I was just being facetious.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:52 PM   #33
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I agree. Most of it is advertising hype, very good hype too. Taking a step back, the logic of buying a 2 or 3X the cost battery to do essentially the same job with about the same longevity is a great marketing success.

if your batteries are boiling off water maybe it is not the battery. Check for overfilling or a bad charger.
-------------------
I am with you guys. I service my wet cell batteries on a schedule twice per year. At the end of boating season in October I inspect the battery terminals and check the water. In April just before Lingcod season, I clean the terminals, cable connections and check the water. I added no water this year. Most of my maintenance time on the batteries is terminal connections.

If you are adding water on a weekly or monthly basis then there is a problem in your battery or charging system. Most likely an overcharge situation or your drawing down your batteries too hard.

Before I installed a Xantrex smart charger with a remote monitoring panel(years ago), that was the case for me too. I used a lot of battery water due to constant overcharging and my batteries would last 4 - 5 year if I was lucky. The smart charger system is left on 24 - 7, it's off switch is the panel circuit breaker. Never turning it off prevents accidental discharge and it never overcharges.

The bottom line, If your batteries don't last 7 or 8 years minimum, then there is something wrong with your battery system.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:10 PM   #34
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Baker,
look around at truck equipment dealers that are battery wholesalers. they might not have the AGM marine battery on the shelf but they can get them very easily. Truck guys have not yet learned that you can stick a picture of an anchor on something and charge double. My boat came with Deka AGM's when i bought it 7 years ago and I have had no problem with them. My last boat had wet cells and they lasted about three years on average. in the last boat the batteries were under the cockpit so i did not worry about gas. This boat has them under the salon so i do worry about gas.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:15 PM   #35
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I installed six Trojan 105 Plus golf cart batteries for my house bank on the 10th of July, 2007, which now makes them over seven years old. I tested their charge this week with an hygrometer (I'm laying the San Simone up for the winter) and found each and every cell to be in excellent condition. The gravities were all essentially in the "New" range.
I attribute this to having installed a 12 volt Powerpulse unit on each set of two - six volt batteries. This pulse technology is now being employed by the US Army for their fleet. Expectations are to at least double battery life... I'll let you know how it works out in another fifteen years!

See this site for how the unit works...
http://www.pulsetech.net/Content/Our...echnology.aspx

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:12 PM   #36
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I installed six Trojan 105 Plus golf cart batteries for my house bank on the 10th of July, 2007, which now makes them over seven years old. I tested their charge this week with an hygrometer (I'm laying the San Simone up for the winter) and found each and every cell to be in excellent condition. The gravities were all essentially in the "New" range.
I attribute this to having installed a 12 volt Powerpulse unit on each set of two - six volt batteries. This pulse technology is now being employed by the US Army for their fleet. Expectations are to at least double battery life... I'll let you know how it works out in another fifteen years!

See this site for how the unit works...
http://www.pulsetech.net/Content/Our...echnology.aspx

BW

Which one of the pulse tech units are you using and what do you know about the solar units
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:17 PM   #37
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I had to replace my batteries two years ago and opted to go with the Lifeline AGM L-16s because they gave me what I wanted out of my batteries - the largest pile of amp hours available, so I could run my genset less. I can use 700ah before starting the genset and when I do, the two inverters can both pump 120amps back in. The higher charging rate and less maintenance were wins for me. I still check the connections regularly (monthly) and IR temp check them most times I am in the engine room checking other items.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:03 AM   #38
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I've a 1998 NAPA 27 starter batt on 7.5 Kohler genset... charged by solar panel along with genset generator when its running. A 2005 NAPA 27 starter batt in o/b runabout. 4 2010 31 deep cell Battery Plus batts as house bank and twin screw engine starters. A 2010 Battery Plus combo marine batt held completely separate and fully charged as on board spare in its own black batt box... all wet cell.

I check the water levels once per year. Occasionally a little distilled is needed.

Never let the deep cells go below 50% charge. Never let the "distilled" water get too low. Never over charge wet cell batts for more than an hour.

Wet cell works real well at affordable cost ... IMHO - Jus Sayen!
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:09 AM   #39
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Batteries

koliver,
Re: the dink and lawn mower batteries. Sounds like you are in the cat bird seat; can't cut the grass 'cause the mower won't start, might as well head for the boat.http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/i...es/sk/rofl.gif
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:51 AM   #40
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I installed six Trojan 105 Plus golf cart batteries for my house bank on the 10th of July, 2007, which now makes them over seven years old. I tested their charge this week with an hygrometer (I'm laying the San Simone up for the winter) and found each and every cell to be in excellent condition. The gravities were all essentially in the "New" range.
I attribute this to having installed a 12 volt Powerpulse unit on each set of two - six volt batteries. This pulse technology is now being employed by the US Army for their fleet. Expectations are to at least double battery life... I'll let you know how it works out in another fifteen years!

BW
I changed out my four, seven year old Trojan 105 this week. I found one cell dead so I figure they were due for replacement. Take a look at the positive terminal post and see if it has swelled and is bulging the top casing.
I put eight 235 amp-hr Crown batteries in. I now have a big bank at 940 amp-hrs.
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