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Old 02-04-2011, 06:58 PM   #1
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Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

What type of Autopilot or Wheel pilot do you all have on your 36 ft trawlers? I have hydraulic steering and my boat is 22,000 lbs on the lift. *Any recommendations?
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:48 PM   #2
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

What is the make and model of the hydraulic steering?
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:54 PM   #3
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

cap, It depends on what type of cruising you plan to do and where. If it will be weekend and occasional longer trips in mostly protected waters, a wheel pilot will do fine. If you plan on long distance and serious cruising, you will get caught out in unpleasant conditions from time to time, you will want a below decks pilot attached to your hydraulics. I highly recommend the Simrad AP24. Chuck
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:54 PM   #4
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Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Hydraulic steering is Wagner A-W. *

Planning on taking the boat up the north coast (slog) from SF Bay area up to Washington.


-- Edited by cap10kat on Friday 4th of February 2011 09:02:44 PM
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:55 PM   #5
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Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

We put a Raymarine autopilot in our boat last year. We have chain drive so that limited us a bit. I think the core system was the X3. We put in Raymarine ST70 multifunction control heads in both the upper and lower helms.

I should add that we have Garmin chartplotters. NMEA2000 is supposed to allow different devices to work together, but in this case it does not seem to work. We had to use NMEA0183 to get the autopilot to talk to the chartplotters. Some of the Garmin route functions work, like following a route, but some don't, like using the "navigate to" function.


-- Edited by Rusty Lewis on Friday 4th of February 2011 10:25:22 PM
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:09 PM   #6
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

With Wagner steering, you should be able to find an old Wagner S50 AP that was designed for that steering. A dinosaur compared to modern electronics, but relatively bullet proof. I had a wag S 50 on my sailboat, 19000 lbs, Wagner hydraulic steering, 1982 vintage. I also have it on my present trawler, 44000 lb, 1980 vintage. Same auto pilot. I have looked at more modern pilots, but other than interfacing with the Nav program (so you can send your boat home without being aboard) they don't do anything else any better.
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:28 PM   #7
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Quote:
cap10kat wrote:

Hydraulic steering is Wagner A-W.


Planning on taking the boat up the north coast (slog) from SF Bay area up to Washington.

You might check out the Accu-Steer HRP75 pump, which could be the right size, although that depends on the Wagner cylinder size.* Accu-steer pumps are very good, they have a size to fit most any system and interface with whatever autopilot control unit you find.* http://www.accu-steer.com/HRP75.html

Given your intended usage, something like this will probably work best when coupled with a good control head, course computer and rate compass.* Ocean steering is a whole lot more challenging that coastal because there is so much more motion going on the unit needs to intelligently correct, that cheap systems may not do the job.

*
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:19 PM   #8
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Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

We have a Wagner.* *

www.marine-plus.com/wagner/wagner

www.jastram.com/service/wagner-engineering.htm

www.comnavmarine.com

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Friday 4th of February 2011 10:22:04 PM
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:10 AM   #9
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

IS the Wagner a pump driven from the engine , an electric pressure unit , or a pump incorperated in the helm?
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:27 AM   #10
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Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Raymarine, Hydraulic steering, electric driven pump. 2003 Monk 36
Steve W.

-- Edited by Steve on Saturday 5th of February 2011 06:28:25 AM
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:48 AM   #11
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Wagner is an 12 volt DC pump under the helm.*

I saw at the boat show a autopilot that cost $1800 that*clamps on to the helm wheel that si 12 volt DC www.cptautopilot.com that is easy to install.* *
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:58 AM   #12
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Quote:
cap10kat wrote:
What type of Autopilot or Wheel pilot do you all have on your 36 ft trawlers? I have hydraulic steering and my boat is 22,000 lbs on the lift. *Any recommendations?



I agree with Capn Chuc'sk recommendation on the Simrad AP24 autopilot. We put one in last spring and it has worked flawlessly. We contacted Simrad via email an gave them the boat and steering specifications. They sized the pump and listed all the components. We bought ours on line for ~$3200 complete. They have a 2 year warranty. I've called them with some basic questions and they have been real supportive. The AP24 system uses NMEA 2000. It will accept NMEA 183 inputs but you will need to buy a converter from Simrad. You can go to their site and download or read all the manuals.

Larry/Lena
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Huatulco, Oaxaca, MX
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:28 AM   #13
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

I installed a Sitex SP-70 last spring on my 40 Albin. The total price was about $1700 and that included the higher volume pump.
What a great autopilot is all I can say. Not many frills, but does all the basics including running by the gps. And all*with a small handheld controller as I did not have the helm space on the bridge for a built in.
In the spring I'll buy a second controller with a long cord so I can run from below or from the bow.
Hope this help. I f you want more info PM me.
Jay
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:55 AM   #14
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Hey Phil, with the Aussie dollar actually higher than the US these days, it could even be worth me seeing if I could get that CPT Auto Steerer. It looks like just the thing to fit to my Clipper 34 with chain/rod steering. I've been on the look-out for this type of steering for a while. Thus far the only one I had heard of and seen was the Raymarine. It fits the wheel, and does have gyro and fluxgate compass and wireless remote and can be connected to GPS, but is $2000 plus, and do I need that, I wonder...? Still the price difference is not that great, and when they added shipping...
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:51 AM   #15
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

It looks like just the thing to fit to my Clipper 34 with chain/rod steering. I've been on the look-out for this type of steering for a while.
Peter:

On a recommendation from Al Ross on this forum (thank you Al!), I purchased a Autohelm 3000 Wheel Pilot through e-bay for about $400 last summer.* It was a simple installation and works perfectly.* This winter I was lucky enough to locate the incredibly rare navigation interface device that will allow me to connect the wheelpilot to the GPS.* I can't wait for the Spring thaw and a chance to try out the new gizmo.

- Darrell



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Old 02-06-2011, 08:38 AM   #16
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Quote:
BaltimoreLurker wrote:I can't wait for the Spring thaw and a chance to try out the new gizmo.
Man! I don't know how you guys make it through the winter.

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Old 02-06-2011, 09:09 AM   #17
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:BaltimoreLurker wrote:I can't wait for the Spring thaw and a chance to try out the new gizmo.
Man! I don't know how you guys make it through the winter.

We endeavor to persevere!

*
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:44 AM   #18
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

"It looks like just the thing to fit to my Clipper 34 with chain/rod steering."

This is the KEY , only mechanical steering , where the wheel returns to a center can be used with a device that turns the wheel.

Hydraulic steering doesn't work because after enough L or R helm corrections the center has moved.

IF your clipper is really easy to steer , you might consider using a side lever as a launch does.

Takes up less space and a $300 sailboat tiller pilot works just fine.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:00 AM   #19
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Sounds good Darrell. Glad it works for you, as it must therefore work for me. FF, my helm is quite light, yet not too low geared either, only 3 & half turns from lock to lock, so the wheel pilot should more than cope, but a tiller type drive would not fit very easily, I think. As an aside, re you comment re only working with direct mechanical drive - I would have thought that also, but the CPT system Phil put up claims to work with mechanical or hydraulic, so there must be a way.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:32 AM   #20
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RE: Autopilot or Wheel pilot?

Quote:
Peter B wrote:As an aside, re you comment re only working with direct mechanical drive - I would have thought that also, but the CPT system Phil put up claims to work with mechanical or hydraulic, so there must be a way.
Maybe a rudder angle*indicator feed is needed.

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