AutoPilot-Hydraulic vs Non Hydraulic

[ToTheLimit]

We just bought a 1978 Marine Trader 38 with cable steering, definelty want to add autopilot but wondering if I should upgrade steering to hydrolic prior to adding the auto pilot. This is all new to me so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[O C Diver]

I would upgrade the steering to hydraulic and buy all the components at the same time for compatibility reasons. Unless the cable steering has already been replaced, I would be concerned about life expectancy on 40 year old components.

Ted

 

[ToTheLimit]

I was thinking the same, I am hoping some one on the forum has done this to a similar boat and can recommend a product. Ball park cost would be great as well for this upgrade.

 

[DavidM]

I have been investigating the same thing for a boat I am in the process of buying.

You can install an autopilot using a mechanical actuator that drives the existing cables (Octopus in Canada makes one) but it is mechanical which means more stuff to go wrong. Another way is to use a hydraulic actuator in parallel with the mechanical steering, but that adds complexity and won't be much cheaper than converting to straight hydraulic steering.

So the pros recommend converting to hydraulic steering and installing an autopilot with a hydraulic pump to move the steering gear. BoatUS has a nice article about converting to hydraulic steering: https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2015/august/upgrade-to-hydraulic-steering.asp

With hydraulic steering installed, any of the major autopilot manufacturers (Raymarine, Garmin, Simrad and others) can offer a system consisting of a control head, an electronics/drive module, a fluxgate compass and a hydraulic pump that ties into your new hydraulic system. The drive module and hydraulic pump need to be sized to match the new hydraulic steering drive cylinder.

A total system suitable for outboard use will run about $600 for a Baystar hydraulic steering package and about $1,500 for the autopilot system. Maybe a bit more for your 34' trawler which will need a longer actuating cylinder plus a drive quadrant for the steering shaft. Installation can be done by any competent DIYer.

David

 

[FF]

I would keep the mechanical steering and use a wheel driven unit that has a belt and an electric motor.

1/4 or 1/5 the cost and works quite well.Esp if you service the chain & cable setup, a bit of oil and grease.

"but it is mechanical which means more stuff to go wrong."

The AP adds almost nothing to the complexity of the standard vessels steering .

Anything in the steering that is mechanical can usually be fixed on board.

Few cruisers have hyd pump and motor and cylinder repair materials on board.

Or even an emergency tiller.

As always KISS !


Yes most are made for sailboats , so are far more water resistant than needed in most PH.


http://www.cptautopilot.com/

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Raymarine ST4000MK2 ...
$534.95
Star Marine De...

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Raymarine EV‑100 Wheel ...
$1,000.00
Moris Marine S...

 

[Seevee]

Got a questions for the gurus...

Why is hydraulic steering desirable on a boat anyway?

If one just looks at the logistics, a hydraulic steering systems is much more complicated that a pulley and cable system. The hydraulic has a cylinder(s), all kinds of hydraulic hoses, valves, reservoir.... if the system leaks, it doesn't work... and there's several places to leak. If a valve fails it doesn't work (for that station).

A cable and pulley system is dirt simple, just cables and pulleys, and perhaps a chain and sprocket at the helm. Pretty easy to maintain and trouble shoot. And adding an autopilot would only require a simple electric motor and a capstan over one of the cables, plus some sort of control box. If a cable gets frayed, it still works and you have time to address. If a pulley sticks, you still have time to fix. And with reasonable maintenance that doesn't happen.

What am I missing?


====
However, I do have hydraulic and it works well... but a LOT of parts.

 

[O C Diver]

Imo, shaft, bearings, pitman arms, and a chain gear reduction is the most reliable and easiest to steer with the exception of power assist and steer by wire (electric, knob, joy stick, or button). The one on my charter boat is 42 years old. I've replaced the rusty chains with nickel plated and replaced the ball joints. Other than that, it's spray lube the chains and pump a little grease in the bearings. The system is labor and parts intensive to build.

Regarding hydraulic steering, most system failures are a function of a slow oil leak. If one does routine inspections, leaks can be spotted before system failure and oil can be added to get you to a safe harbor.

Ted

 

[Ski in NC]

To the original poster: One steering station or two?

I do like hydraulic steering better, but whether it is worth converting depends on the boat. And budget.

MANY more AP's available in hydraulic.

 

[ToTheLimit]

Two

 

[D.Duck44]

Having had hydraulic steering for 30 years and found it totally reliable ,
I would not change.
I have a model A Ford with mechanical brakes, and they do not hold a candle to hydraulic. The same could be said about boat steering.

 

[Keysdisease]

For the boat builder Hydraulic steering is much easier and faster to install, especially true for boats with more than 1 station. That is one of the main reasons so many boats use hydraulic.
Hydraulic steering has proven to be very reliable. On a simple 1 station boat there are 4 hose connection and 3 seals, one at the helm shaft and 2 on the cylinder. The moving parts inside the helm are completely submerged in hydraulic fluid making wear negligible.
As mentioned, some spare oil aboard will typically get you home, and the seal kits for most units are cheap and easy to install.
Like Duck said, everyone has hydraulic brakes on their car, almost all power assisted, reliability has proven to be pretty good.

 

[kapnd]

Hydraulic steering is much simpler, and bends and changes in elevations are no problem compared to sprockets, chains, shafts and gears in terms of both ease and cost of installation and of maintenance.
The only thing simpler than hydraulics is a tiller, and my boat has one for emergency use!

 

[gene cada]

Hi, did you ever go with the hydraulic steering and autopilot? Got any comments about the installation if yes answer? Will be converting my 79 CHB 34 this fall and interested in time on the install and component brand and expense. Located Anacortes Wa.

 

[ToTheLimit]

No I have not done anything yet, my reason for possibly going to hydraulic is to have autopilot. I am now thinking I might be able to do this with the present steering system. Still researching...

 

[gene cada]

Where in Canada? I have a Quote from 3 M boat yard in Seattle, Ryan the sales guy there, would share on e mail. $7000 parts. No hydraulic lines to route, DC signals from both helms to one cylinder located at rudder. If you are in BC, possible both boats at same time, with discounts.

 

[ToTheLimit]

The other side, New Brunswick, love to make the trip sometime though lol. If you don’t mind sharing the quote, I would really appreciate seeing it. My email is AmeriSpec@live.com.

 

[gene cada]

No steering upgrade yet on my CHB. Procrastination is a sin. Did you change the system on Halliday? Curious where your research ended up.

 

[Mako]

If the existing steering systems works then just maintain it. Why would you volunteer to spend a couple grand for no or minimal benefit?

Btw, the friction is much less in mechanical steering. Probably doesn’t matter for a smaller boat under 40ft, but it was the difference between 3 versus 7 turns lock to lock in my 65ft design.

 

[SoWhat]

Redundancy is safety. Keep the cable system and add a separate autopilot.
The 2 obvious choices are mechanical linear drive and hydraulic pump. Hydraulic is obviously more expensive to purchase, install, and maintain. Hydraulic also seems to be the most popular.

You probably have a quadrant on 1 rudder shaft. You would need to add a control arm to the second shaft for either choice. You would also need to build a mounting platform for either choice. The autopilot and control head installations would be just about identical. (Hydraulic requires a clutch output so you can use the cable steering)

A new Raymarine Evolution EV-200 kit retails for about $3000. Installation and misc parts extra. (easily another $3000) There is a large market in used Raymarine parts. There is an advantage to staying a generation behind. Cost being the biggest one. I would probably go for a new hydraulic pump and ram due to previously mentioned propensity for leaks.

I personally decided not to rip out my reliable cable system to install helm pumps. That would qualify as a major reconstruction and would result in single point of failure. And then after you convert to helm pumps you would still need to integrate the autopilot system.

 

[Lepke]

My hydraulic steering and autopilot pump is about 50 years old with very little maintenance. The cylinder was rebuilt once and the autopilot was replaced with a modern one.
Compared to cables, most of a cable system would have been replaced several times.

 

[SoWhat]

My hydraulic steering and autopilot pump is about 50 years old with very little maintenance. The cylinder was rebuilt once and the autopilot was replaced with a modern one.
Compared to cables, most of a cable system would have been replaced several times.

My cable system is 35 years old. Well oiled and lubed. It's as good as the day it was installed.

Any hydraulic cylinder will need new seals long before 35 years. As long as it's a name brand it is just routine maintenance.

Autopilot electronics are a mystery Can last 35 years, or fail in 6 months. In general I think they are very reliable.

 

[FF]

A mechanical steering requires a PLAN and a large assortment of components to work. These have to be installed properly and lined up properly , when done with the correct parts the system will stay reliable for decades.

Hyd , plastic tubing requires few skills to lead around the boat and fewer parts to install. Cheaper labor can stick it in , and they are frequently reliable .

When problems come the exact repair parts are required .

To view quality components for cable steering Edson is worth a look.

 

[FF]

The key to a long lasting cable system is large diameter pulleys where the cable changes direction.


A roll of 7x19 SS or bronze wire rope onboard and a couple of clamps can repair a system anywhere in the world , by almost anyone.