Anyone use a NEMA 2000 Gateway to replace old gauges?

[JoeReno]

I'm a bit surprised that I don't see more information on this. I have twin 2001 260hp Volvo's (Penta KAD 44's that output engine info to a volvo penta EDC display). I also have a NEMA 200 system connected to a Garmin chartplotter. I added a radar to the chartplotter using the NEMA connector and it works great. Now my gauges are getting old and failing and the old volvo LCD EDC displays are fading as well. Rather then replacing all of the analog gauges I THINK I can bridge the EDC output to my existing NEMA2000 network and view the engine info on my chart plotter (my chart plotter says it supports this). Has anyone done this before? Is it as easy as adding a gateway like the $189 gateway by Yachtd.com? This seems like a cool low cost solution for ageing gauges.​

 

[twistedtree]

Yes, I've done it for a variety of engines and generators. If the engine outputs J1939, then you can use a J1939 to NMEA 2000 gateway to do what you want. I'm not familiar with the Volvo in question, so that part you will need to research.


The only gateway that I've used is the Maretron J1939. It works well, but will require one of Maretron's other devices to configure it. I've use N2KAnalyze with an IPG100 and/or USB100, but I think a DSM250 can do it too. If it's a one-time configuration job you could higher someone to configure it, but the USB100 or IPG100 is probably a good long term investment anyway for future updates, diagnostics, etc.

 

[DDW]

Not a Volvo, but I just did this for a Cummins with a Smart Craft display that is getting rather dim. Used the Mercruiser NMEA2000 bridge, but I think others will do about the same thing. All data that appears on the Smart Craft - and more - now appears on the Raymarine system anywhere I want it, in the order I want it to be.

 

[MYTraveler]

. . .I just did this for a Cummins with a Smart Craft display that is getting rather dim. Used the Mercruiser NMEA2000 bridge, but I think others will do about the same thing. All data that appears on the Smart Craft - and more - now appears on the Raymarine system anywhere I want it, in the order I want it to be.

I am trying to do that with a pair of Cummins QSM11's using the Maretron J1939 to NMEA2000 gateway. First problem is that I can't find the J1939 plug on the engine (though there are plenty of unused plugs). In talking with "experts", I am told that this approach may not work with my engines since some (many/most/all?) twin engine installations connect the J1939 for the engines to communicate with each other for synchronization purposes -- that connection is said to prevent getting separate data for each engine -- each engine's data is mixed on the network with the other's data. I would be curious to know which Cummins engines you converted and whether you had any problems or have any insights / suggestions.

 

[DDW]

When Mercury Marine marinized these Cummins engines, they seem to have done their best to bury the J1939 roots. I think you can still get in there, but where, and what it will do to the Smart Craft stuff is a mystery to me. I could find no one with the answer. What I did was buy the Mercuiser interface, they are all over Ebay for around $380. These plug into the Mercruiser J box of which you doubtless have some spare plugs, and will translate and pass on information from 1-4 engines, to NMEA2000 with a DeviceNet connector on the other end. I had only one engine, a QSB5.9. I had to do zero configuration, other than set up the Raymarine head to display what I wanted to see. Actually there was one thing specific to the Raymarine MFD, which searched for which fuel related PIDs where being transmitted. But that was it.

 

[JoeReno]

Well, I talked to the Yacht Devices folks (good presales info) going to give this a try, If it works it really sounds sweet. Their gateway is suppose to simply plug right into the EDC display cable. Unfortunately for my setup I need a gateway per engine so I'm going to need 2. They also have a wifi gateway so for another $189 I can access ALL of my NEMA2000 connected devices on my ipad... since volvo charges double that for their gateway and $800 for the EDC displays it would be very cost effective.

 

[twistedtree]

I am trying to do that with a pair of Cummins QSM11's using the Maretron J1939 to NMEA2000 gateway. First problem is that I can't find the J1939 plug on the engine (though there are plenty of unused plugs). In talking with "experts", I am told that this approach may not work with my engines since some (many/most/all?) twin engine installations connect the J1939 for the engines to communicate with each other for synchronization purposes -- that connection is said to prevent getting separate data for each engine -- each engine's data is mixed on the network with the other's data. I would be curious to know which Cummins engines you converted and whether you had any problems or have any insights / suggestions.

The engines will need to have separate IDs on J1939, then you tell the J2K100 which ID to use for each engine. Note you will need two J2K100s. Each can only translate for a single J1939 device.


I haven't tried a J2K100 on Cummins, but I did rearrange the J1939 interfaces on my previous boat's twin QSC engines. It was originally set up with each engine completely separate and separate VesselView displays for each. I want to combine them so I could use the two vessel view displays to display different data, but for both engines at the same time. Merging the J1939 buses involved buying a cable to bridge between two of the junction blocks. The J1939 ID is set via plug in the engine harness. Both were ID 0, so I had to get a plug for ID 1 and swap it on one engine. It all worked a treat.


It takes some digging, but Cummins publishes cabling and option diagrams for all their engines, and it will show you what's needed. But I'll warn you, it's VERY dense reading with tons of foot notes. Not easy to decipher, but possible.


But as I think about your setup, it would almost be easier if the two engine's are separate since you will need two J2K100s anyway.

 

[Arthurc]

I also have the Maretron j1939 bridge and really like it, I set it up with my DSM410 and have now configured about 20 maretron units that way. Mine is connected to a JD6068 and I did need to mess with the wiring a bit to install but it wasn’t too hard (forum was helpful as I had my polarity reversed at first).

 

[wkearney99]

The downside to putting engine info on the chart plotter is you lose screen area for displaying chart data. Or you lose seeing the gauges when you flip over to chart pages.

Some data is best left on it's own screens. There are a number of good NMEA2k displays out there. Maretron makes some pretty versatile ones that'll let you combine a lot of info on one screen. I've got a Yacht Devices J1939 setup on my C-12 engines, works great. Showing data on a Maretron 4" display.

If you're going to use the J1939 bridges (and yes, it's one per engine) then feed them to separate displays, not on your plotter. Let the plotter do it's job. Use separate displays to keep important data visible, all the time.

 

[Arthurc]

Completely agree, I have a bunch (6) DSM410s around the boat and they are awesome displays.

 

[wkearney99]

Completely agree, I have a bunch (6) DSM410s around the boat and they are awesome displays.

That's a point worth noting, they're useful at other locations too, not just at the helm.

I used to have one on the companionway stairs in our old boat. Displaying just local time, depth and water temp. Kept everyone from wandering too close to the chartplotters looking for that. But it was also near a lower radio position and the other page showed lat/long, heading and speed. Never needed it but it'd have been useful for an emergency if someone was below using the radio (the main helm station was exposed and the radio was all but useless over engine/weather noise).

 

[JoeReno]

Seems like the best bang for the buck for a display would be to install a NEMA2k gateway to an adhoc wifi network for $190 and use iPads. The DSM410 is a 4" display, proprietary and run $500+ each.. An additional plus is iPads are mobile (or you could mount them) - the mini is a 8" display and $300(ish) new.

 

[twistedtree]

Seems like the best bang for the buck for a display would be to install a NEMA2k gateway to an adhoc wifi network for $190 and use iPads. The DSM410 is a 4" display, proprietary and run $500+ each.. An additional plus is iPads are mobile (or you could mount them) - the mini is a 8" display and $300(ish) new.

What app would you run on the iPad?

 

[wkearney99]

For critical info like sole display of engine data I would not trust wireless. Wired-only.

Sure, as an add-on, lots of folks like wireless. But for monitoring that your engine is running within safe parameters and not headed toward hideously expensive repairs I'd think you'd want constantly visible info on this. Engine temp, oil pressure, etc.

Lots of more esoteric stuff that could also be an indicator of trouble (exhaust temp, transmission pressure) might OK shoved off onto a wireless display, or a secondary page. But I'd still want some kind of alarm indicator tied to safe levels. As in, beep like crazy if the value goes outside the safe range (either way, high or low). Maretron's displays are good for this.

 

[wkearney99]

Seems like the best bang for the buck for a display would be to install a NEMA2k gateway to an adhoc wifi network for $190 and use iPads. The DSM410 is a 4" display, proprietary and run $500+ each.. An additional plus is iPads are mobile (or you could mount them) - the mini is a 8" display and $300(ish) new.

The DSM410 takes NMEA2k data, and Maretron has been one of the most open among marine electronic suppliers. Garmin, Raymarine, etc, were all content to be almost completely proprietary until NMEA2k and Maretron did a lot to lead the effort toward open NMEA2k devices and displays. They may not be inexpensive (although, given marine electronics costs, they're still a bargain) but they work and have a number of good, boat-operator-oriented touches. Not just marketing hype (cough, cough, Garmin) or lighthouse-flavor-of-the-week (Raymarine).

An additional point to consider is operability under bad conditions. If the weather goes south and sea conditions become difficult, how readily usable is a tablet going to be? At least in comparison to a waterproof hard mounted display? What if wave conditions are severe and toss things around the cabin?

There's an inescapable old rule "Good, fast, cheap... pick two". Sometimes paying for good gear is worth it. ESPECIALLY when compared to marine engine repair costs.

 

[Arthurc]

I’d highly advise against an iPad. Don’t get me wrong, I have several i keep onboard but not for anything critical or lag/latency sensitive.
The DSM410s are awesome, I have different configuration for each based on what and where it is, staterooms are all just environmentals, AC and DC state, etc. Fly bridge and pilothouse mostly rotate engine data.

 

[JoeReno]

What app would you run on the iPad?

The yachtd folks tell me the wifi gateway comes with an app you can use on a pad or smartphone. They have iphone screenshots on their website.



Regarding the reliability of the wifi / ipad connection. I agree that hardwire is probably more reliable - though there can be issues with wired connections as well.



It can drive you nuts deciding the correct price-point on risk / reward. Also, how bleeding edge do you want to be offshore?



To mitigate that risk my chartplotter is already hardwired into the NEMA network (I have 2 screens - connected via wires - to both helms). Also, regarding the "viewablility" and sharing screen space... I generally use other GPS navigation software most of the time (I use BOTH Navionics and iSailor). Also, the analog gauges are still there.



Comparing the cost, convenience and portability of the wifi gateway, wifi seems like a acceptable risk given all of the backup systems available. Maybe if I was piloting a 50' passagemaker it would make sense - but I generally don't go any farther then the Bahamas and coastal cruising.

 

[Arthurc]

Checkout Maretron as well, I think they make a pretty good app if you have thier IP gateway. In terms of Wifi do you have another network onboard? If you do I’d go with just a NMEA to IP box and use your standard WiFi router. Easier to upgrade/etc in the future.

 

[wkearney99]

I agree that hardwire is probably more reliable - though there can be issues with wired connections as well.

No. The two are not equal.

A wired setup is as reliable as the quality materials and installation effort put into it.

Wireless is at the mercy of all sorts of shenanigans (interference, SSID network changes, routing problems when trying to bridge to shore/cell connections, etc). You do not want primary engine monitoring put at the mercy of wireless connectivity.

It can drive you nuts deciding the correct price-point on risk / reward. Also, how bleeding edge do you want to be offshore?

Gauges for engine data and bridges are not bleeding edge. That's well-trod territory. Wireless, however, is. Especially given the constant nature of app upgrades and firmware changes. A wired gauge, once installed, is pretty much never going to need changing.

Yes, it's possible to drive yourself crazy with the endless number of options out there. At some point we all believed the hype, then we bought stuff and discovered, oh, it sucks.

To mitigate that risk my chartplotter is already hardwired into the NEMA network (I have 2 screens - connected via wires - to both helms). Also, regarding the "viewablility" and sharing screen space... I generally use other GPS navigation software most of the time (I use BOTH Navionics and iSailor). Also, the analog gauges are still there.

What kind of chartplotters? Have you determined if they're even able to display the engine data? (My four older Navnet3D Furuno units won't). Let alone in a usable format? Because some plotters do not have what I'd consider acceptable means to display engine data. Either they don't display much more than oil temp and rpm (no transmission info, exhaust temps or other pressures). Or they make a mess of wasted screen real estate with ugly boxes (Raymarine) or worse, pretty automobile-like dash pictures (Simrad).

You mentioned the analog gauges were "fading", are you not replacing them? That would seem like a reasonable path, especially if you're going to spend on the J1939 gateways.

but I generally don't go any farther then the Bahamas and coastal cruising.

Offshore should prepare for rough seas. Do not have regularly used items set up without secure mounting. As in, not a tablet clipped into a spring mount. Would you want that coming loose and smacking you in the head edge-wise?

Having displays on a tablet is clever option. Not one I'd even remotely consider for primary data display, but a fun toy nonetheless.

 

[BrianSmith]

I have to disagree with the wifi naysayers. Yes, wifi networks go down. So, too, do hardwired networks, including the NMEA2000 network that ties all of your marine electronics together.

If you buy good wifi equipment (Ubiquiti, for example) and install and configure it properly, it's more than reliable enough for my offshore adventures, and probably for yours.

 

[wkearney99]

A hard-wired network isn't going to be at the mercy of interference from any outside traffic. A wifi network will be. Doesn't take much, a crowded anchorage or marina and your wifi network traffic throughput goes to Hell. Sure, when you're all by yourself off-shore it's unlikely to be an issue. But why set up a system that can't handle all of your boating situations reliably?

I get it, seems simple and easy. Don't bother to run wires, let it all work magically over the airwaves. Until it doesn't and you're faced with debugging what other factors have screwed up your network. Versus laying out a wired network and installing it properly. Run the wires once and you're done.

The hardest part is understanding the limits and requirements of a NMEA2k network. And not assuming anything, or deciding "that's not necessary" because setting up that way would be a hassle. As in, someone decided to not run the backbone in the proper fashion and now it's going to be a huge hassle to run it again. Got that in my 47FB. It's taken a fair bit of time to figure out what's been done before and how to untangle it so it'll work properly as I expand the system. The running of a continuous bus gets tricky when you have to a network that includes the mast, engine room, lower helm, flybridge AND forward to a compass/heading sensor (which someone else decided would be a convenient place to put a metal fire extinguisher alongside). Trying to find clear passages for running everything is sometimes a huge headache. But once done the result is a stable wired network. I'm getting there...

I'm not saying "don't use wifi at all". I'm saying don't use it as your only means to monitor critical information.

 

[stevemitchell]

I am in the process of installing an Actisense EMU-1 NMEA 2000 engine gateway into my Ocean Alexander, which has 2x Volvo Penta TAMD61A engines. This gateway requires splicing the wires near existing gauges and is converting the analog signals to NMEA 2000 PGNs, so it is a bit different approach, but could be more useful for engines that don't support a J protocol or otherwise.

From what I've read, the TAMD series *may* support J1708, in which case the Yacht Devices J1708 gateway might be a good choice, although I would have to purchase two of them, one for each engine, which would cost almost $500.

The Actisense is about $450, but you also need their PC to NMEA 2000 interface to configure it, which is $180, so the Yacht Devices solution is cheaper, if it works. It also likely would provide not only more data, as the Actisense only has a limited number of connection points, but it would be actual sender data rather than converting analog to digital.

I think I may end up trying both to see how it goes.

 

[BrianSmith]

On a very related tangent, if any of you are electronics hobbyists, or just want to see what the hobbyists are doing on their boats, check out what they've done with Signal K, the protocol that was created by (I believe) Digital Yacht a number of years ago. I'm running the open source version of Signal K on a Raspberry Pi, connected to my boat's network (some hardwired, some wifi), with the Digital Yacht iKommunicate "black box". The result is that all of the NMEA2000 data from my Raymarine devices is available on any Signal K application on any PC, tablet, or phone. And with a side project to Signal K called SigkSens, I'm starting to digitize data from all over the boat and add it to the NMEA2000 data stream, so that it can be displayed on any of my devices, including the Raymarine MFD's. (My boat is from 2002, and none of the engine data was digital.)
https://github.com/SignalK/signalk-server-node
https://github.com/mxtommy/SigkSens

 

[stevemitchell]

On a very related tangent, if any of you are electronics hobbyists, or just want to see what the hobbyists are doing on their boats, check out what they've done with Signal K, the protocol that was created by (I believe) Digital Yacht a number of years ago. I'm running the open source version of Signal K on a Raspberry Pi, connected to my boat's network (some hardwired, some wifi), with the Digital Yacht iKommunicate "black box". The result is that all of the NMEA2000 data from my Raymarine devices is available on any Signal K application on any PC, tablet, or phone. And with a side project to Signal K called SigkSens, I'm starting to digitize data from all over the boat and add it to the NMEA2000 data stream, so that it can be displayed on any of my devices, including the Raymarine MFD's. (My boat is from 2002, and none of the engine data was digital.)
https://github.com/SignalK/signalk-server-node
https://github.com/mxtommy/SigkSens

SignalK is definitely a great open source project. Digital Yacht created the first commercial product, the iKommunicate that you have, but the project itself was formed by a couple of like-minded sailors that wanted something not controlled by larger corporations to be able to exchange data on boats.

I've been using SignalK for years, and in fact, it was one of the first things I installed on my new boat, as you can use it as a very advanced "hub" between NMEA 0183, NMEA 2000, and just about anything else on the network. I used a Raspberry Pi as well, and am bridging the 0183 to 2000 networks from a bunch of disparate devices that were never connected.

The part I like the most is Scott Bender's WilhelmSK iPad/iPhone app which allows me to see all of the data on the network not only while I am on the boat, but remotely through a VPN so I can check on status while I'm away. He also wrote the majority of the libraries and interface stuff for the Victron power systems support, which I had on my previous boat and loved, and will hopefully be installing on the new one. Victron themselves have made a commitment to helping support SignalK last I heard in the news.

I think it is awesome that we are finally able to use cheap, open source software backed hardware to do things that you'd only be able to do in the past with expensive hardware or complex amounts of sensors. SigSense looks like a great alternative to a commercial engine monitor.

 

[Waywego]

Another option to consider is NoLand Engineering's RS11 with 2 tach inputs and 6 gauge inputs. It can be configured for single or twin engine applications and multiple units can attach to the NMEA 2000 bus.

 

[BrianSmith]

SignalK is definitely a great open source project. Digital Yacht created the first commercial product, the iKommunicate that you have, but the project itself was formed by a couple of like-minded sailors that wanted something not controlled by larger corporations to be able to exchange data on boats.

I've been using SignalK for years, and in fact, it was one of the first things I installed on my new boat, as you can use it as a very advanced "hub" between NMEA 0183, NMEA 2000, and just about anything else on the network. I used a Raspberry Pi as well, and am bridging the 0183 to 2000 networks from a bunch of disparate devices that were never connected.

The part I like the most is Scott Bender's WilhelmSK iPad/iPhone app which allows me to see all of the data on the network not only while I am on the boat, but remotely through a VPN so I can check on status while I'm away. He also wrote the majority of the libraries and interface stuff for the Victron power systems support, which I had on my previous boat and loved, and will hopefully be installing on the new one. Victron themselves have made a commitment to helping support SignalK last I heard in the news.

I think it is awesome that we are finally able to use cheap, open source software backed hardware to do things that you'd only be able to do in the past with expensive hardware or complex amounts of sensors. SigSense looks like a great alternative to a commercial engine monitor.

Scott has been a big help to me, and lots of others. who are using Signal K. +1 on his WilhelmSK app.

 

[Im715]

Tamd61a engine data success

I am in the process of installing an Actisense EMU-1 NMEA 2000 engine gateway into my Ocean Alexander, which has 2x Volvo Penta TAMD61A engines. This gateway requires splicing the wires near existing gauges and is converting the analog signals to NMEA 2000 PGNs, so it is a bit different approach, but could be more useful for engines that don't support a J protocol or otherwise.

From what I've read, the TAMD series *may* support J1708, in which case the Yacht Devices J1708 gateway might be a good choice, although I would have to purchase two of them, one for each engine, which would cost almost $500.

The Actisense is about $450, but you also need their PC to NMEA 2000 interface to configure it, which is $180, so the Yacht Devices solution is cheaper, if it works. It also likely would provide not only more data, as the Actisense only has a limited number of connection points, but it would be actual sender data rather than converting analog to digital.

I think I may end up trying both to see how it goes.

Hi there I also have tamd61a engines and I’d love to hear how you got on?

 

[stevemitchell]

Hi there I also have tamd61a engines and I’d love to hear how you got on?

I ended up using an Actisense EMU-1 to monitor the engines on that boat: https://seabits.com/monitor-your-engine-with-the-actisense-emu-1/

 

[STB]

I use a yacht devices YDEG-04 to connect my Kohler 6E0D genset's J1939 interface to my NMEA 2000 backbone so I can have soft gauges for it on, as desired, on my flybridge MFDs (OpenCPN and Simrad NSE-12).

 

[wkearney99]

I have unifi gear on my boat as well as in land facilities. And it's fine until the controller goes out. Which arguably doesn't happen often but it can. And don't get me started on unifi firmware upgrades that cause more trouble than they solve.

I stand by my perspective that hardwired Is a better plan.