Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-14-2019, 12:43 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 29 - Express Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 177
Any advantage or disadvantage from 30 to 50 Amp

My boat is in for a massive refit, essentially everything old is gone, including engine and stern drive, all wiring, old inverter and charger, old instruments, old electronics, everything is gone. My boat is basically a gutless bare bones affair right now.

The boat is a 50 year old 29 feet express cruiser style, it had a 30 amp system and I was going to have that re-installed but then it occurred to me that 50 amps would be good for faster charging. Is going from a 30 amp to 50 amp a good thing, a not so good thing, what say you?

The one kept item is a two year old Norcool fridge, not that big, DC only and a new Norcool small standing freezer, roughly 2.5 cubic feet, DC only, extra insulation added into a new box built for it.

I have purchased but not installed 6 Fire Fly batteries for my new house battery bank, two deep cell agm's for my new bow thruster, and of course the engine battery.

Inverter/charger haven't been purchased yet. There is no air conditioning - Pacific North West and Coastal BC. The head is a new composting toilet. Stove/oven is propane. A Wallas diesel heater is going to be installed with water heater system, small.

The new Merc 6.2 litre gas engine - 350 hp - has a 70 amp alternator (can't install a larger one or the new warranty is void). Efoy 210 will be installed.

I am thinking a faster charge rate time when visiting marinas away from my home base, not too important at my home marina since the boat will be tied up for days and weeks at a time.
__________________
Advertisement

rsn48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 01:45 PM   #2
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,817
50 amps really isn't necessary on a boat that size. Unless you plan to have electric heat or air conditioning, 30 would be fine. That said, if the price difference doesn't bother you, probably no down side to more capacity and a better shore power connector.

Ted
__________________

__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 01:47 PM   #3
Guru
 
Woodland Hills's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alzero
Vessel Model: Hatteras 63' CPMY
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 692
Are you planning on a watermaker? IIRC they can have a pretty heavy current draw.
Woodland Hills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 01:58 PM   #4
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23- outboard
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,403
I don't see the need for more than 30 amps as long as you don't have air conditioning. Your AC loads will be a microwave, if you have one, the water heater, if electric and the shore power charger. A 100 amp modern charger will draw about 15 amps peak. You probably can't use the microwave and the water heater at the same time but all you have to do is stagger their use.

And most marinas have 50A 240V outlets, rarely 50A 120V outlets. You can get an adapter to make that work though.

If you want to upgrade you will have to look at your AC panel and upgrade its 30A main breaker to 50A. Then upgrade the wiring back to the shore power inlet to 8 gauge and if you don't have one, put a 50A breaker near the shore power inlet (ABYC requirement). Get a new 50A shore power cord and the adapter mentioned above.

Lots of work, at least $1000 in parts all for little benefit.

David
djmarchand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 02:00 PM   #5
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,570
ran
My vote is for 30A as well w/o A/C, elec Stove or heat.
Batty charging shouldn't be very high Amp AC... 100 A DC only about 10A AC draw. If you install 50A all your components will be higher $ including adapters to use 30A when that's all that's available.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 02:28 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: Doha
Country: Qatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,117
As your boat is about 30ft you should be able to fit into about 100% of the marinas, and assuming that you're going to be traveling far and wide, you'll find a lot of small marinas won't have 50 amp service, only 30.
makobuilders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 03:38 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 29 - Express Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 177
Thanks for the replies. Decades ago my wife and I lived in a fifth wheel while saving for a home in the Greater Vancouver BC area. The park we lived at had 15 amps. I got really good at understanding electrical power usage after tripping the breaker multiple times. Even with 15 amps we could do a lot. We could use a hair blower as long as it was on medium or low. We couldn't use the hair blower if we were using the TV, that kind of living. The first time we used 30 amps it was like graduation day for us.... lol.

I have decided I don't need a microwave, even in our home it only gets used a few minutes every day but all that we do with it can easily be done without one. But I have bought a convection oven to use when I'm in marinas, it uses 1380 watts with no surge power. So I will be well within 30 amps even using the convection oven.
rsn48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 03:49 PM   #8
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,570
You might consider a 1 burner butane stove. We've had one from a previous boat and have used it a lot cruising.
Small, stows easily, butane is HOT and heats quickly, canisters last longer than would have ever guessed. These are the kinds used on restsurant serving areas for omelettes, crepes, etc
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 06:43 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 29 - Express Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 177
I will be installing a Force 10 2 burner stove/oven. And there is a bbq on board - a Weber 1200. Most bbq owners don't own a bbq in the true sense of the word. A true bbq is a long drawn out affair like preparing pulled pork in the South, or native Americans smoking salmon, a whole day affair. A contemporary bbq is really an oven and a grill. We once had power go out in our home during a Xmas holiday and the turkey in the oven, which was finished on a bbq.

I am trying to spread power usage out so I have a Dickinson propane heater that came with the boat, but also installing the diesel heater, and an electrical kick plate heater at 750 watts in the V birth area. If I run out of propane I have a heater, if I run out of diesel (gas engine) in the small fuel tank for it, I still have propane heat, and if I poop out on propane and diesel, I have an electric heater for shore power use, a convection oven for shore use and a single burner induction heating plate.
rsn48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 12:41 AM   #10
Guru
 
City: Doha
Country: Qatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
You might consider a 1 burner butane stove. We've had one from a previous boat and have used it a lot cruising.
Small, stows easily, butane is HOT and heats quickly, canisters last longer than would have ever guessed. These are the kinds used on restsurant serving areas for omelettes, crepes, etc
Wonderful for having Korean B-B-Q's at your table! However once you use/puncture the butane canister it will never seal tightly closed again, so store it with your LPG tanks when not in use.
makobuilders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 12:42 AM   #11
Guru
 
City: Doha
Country: Qatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsn48 View Post
I am trying to spread power usage out so I have a Dickinson propane heater that came with the boat, but also installing the diesel heater, and an electrical kick plate heater at 750 watts in the V birth area. If I run out of propane I have a heater, if I run out of diesel (gas engine) in the small fuel tank for it, I still have propane heat, and if I poop out on propane and diesel, I have an electric heater for shore power use, a convection oven for shore use and a single burner induction heating plate.
Now that's what I call redundancy! The only thing you're missing is nice little wood burning stove in the salon, with a glass face, to cozy up to on a cold winter's day.
makobuilders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 12:51 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 29 - Express Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 177
Now that's what I call redundancy! The only thing you're missing is nice little wood burning stove in the salon, with a glass face, to cozy up to on a cold winter's day.

Funny you should mention the little fireplace, yes I did a great deal of consideration to a wood fire place until my refitter said a diesel heater would be more functional, use very little diesel and if I installed it then adding a water heater was more financially logical.

So in the space I had allotted for the fireplace, a space behind the helm seat in the salon, actually under the seat, the seat was standing on stainless steel legs, I've added an insulated box built to take a dedicated freezer. And in that same area, I'm having a fold up board to but the convection oven and induction plate on when at anchor. So in essence I will have two galleys sort of, one in the V birth area (the main one where the refrigerator is) and one in the salon when at moorage. Redundancy in galleys.... lol.

PS: I do much more off season cruising than most, in fact I probably do more in off season than in season. I'm an introvert and going into a busy moorage and anchorage like Squirrel's Cove in Desolation in summer is more an irritant, going in during spring and fall and early winter - a joy, almost no one there.
rsn48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 01:41 PM   #13
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,091
One advantage of 30A that has not been mentioned is the cost and weight of the cords. 50A cords are really spendy and really heavy/awkward to handle compared to 30A. I don't think I'd go to 50A unless I needed it.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 01:48 PM   #14
TF Site Team
 
City: Westerly, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsn48 View Post
it had a 30 amp system and I was going to have that re-installed but then it occurred to me that 50 amps would be good for faster charging. Is going from a 30 amp to 50 amp a good thing, a not so good thing, what say you?
Are you talking about the shore power connection, or the battery charger?

Whether the shore power is 30amp or 50 amp (120 VAC), the battery charger is going to push relatively the same amps (12 VDC) to the batteries. That is unless you were going from a 30 amp charger to a 50 amp charger.

If you're talking about shore power connections, does the power stanchion provide 50amp service? Many provide 2 x 30amp.
Shrew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 02:20 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 29 - Express Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 177
In my marina location, I have 30 amp hook up. I was thinking more at away marinas. For me the 30 amp hook up isn't that big a deal as by the time I leave from where I was to getting "home," I'm looking at minimally 3 hours usually and my alternator is 70 amps so I will have most of my Fireflies recharged by the time I tie up.

But I have decided everyone is right, I am wrong and 30 amps it is. And besides I just spent money on a decent 30 amp power cord, not one of those orange pieces of junk that people use "to save money," which receives lots of amps through 16 gauge wire that wasn't designed for all those amps.
rsn48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 02:21 PM   #16
Ted
Guru
 
Ted's Avatar
 
City: Campbell River
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Okisollo
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post
Now that's what I call redundancy! The only thing you're missing is nice little wood burning stove in the salon, with a glass face, to cozy up to on a cold winter's day.
Like this???
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	unnamed[7] (2).jpg
Views:	47
Size:	55.8 KB
ID:	87583  
Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 04:03 PM   #17
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,759
We berth our vessel in BC. 30 amp at the dock very common. We are an all electric boat. if you choose to go 50, you can get a cord adaptor to connect to a 30 amp pedestal. That is what we do and with a little care we can run AC too. Without a 50 amp hookup or running the genset we cannot run washer and dryer though.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 04:28 PM   #18
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,033
The AT uses 2X30 amp service. One leg is for the reverse cycle A/C.
The second is the house. There are 2 resistance heaters. If you turn them on, you cannot do anything else electrical for they reside on the house breaker. I have 1500 watt inverter .... that means I can use the microwave or support one, possibly 2 120 vt outlets.
I have gotten used to the 30amp house service.
To cook a big meal you must plan the electrical use carefully.
You will learn the phrase, "load shedding". It would be nice to have an Amp use meter in the galley so you can see how close you are to the edge of the "world".
I have one 120 vt light ..... When that goes dark, I start shedding the AC load and resetting breakers.

I agree with DougCole.... the 30 amp cables weighs less, cost less and are easier to handle than the 50 amp cables.

What I am considering is an additional 'service' point, forward. Now I only have a service point aft. Just another pipe dream, I think.

If you currently have a 30 Amp boat and go the 50 amp, you are going to need a good marine electrician to determine what needs to be change ..... shore power breakers, maybe the main internal cabling. These things are way above my pay grade.
__________________
If you must love me, don't love me for my beauty. Love me because I know how to cook.
The burial for my intuitive gene was last month.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 01:54 PM   #19
Member
 
Martin610's Avatar
 
City: Jackson NJ
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Venture
Vessel Model: Cutwater 28
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 10
My Cutwater 28 is an all electric boat. Electric stove top, it has Air Con, two microwaves. With 30 amps it works, but I have to be a bit careful on what gets turned on. You're doing a refit where you could think, "in for a penny, in for a pound" and upgrade. As mentioned you can carry adapters to plug into virtually anything.

If you are running a generator for when you hang on the hook (as I do) you may have to plan for max 30 amps anyway so the planning may become second nature anyway.
Martin610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 03:10 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Sea Q's Avatar


 
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Q
Vessel Model: Westport Mc Queen
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 165
Go to the 30 and get more battery's and a bigger inverter to absorb any spikes you might have extra advantage is you at anchor you have power
Plus I agree 50 amp cores are heavy and a bitch when cold
Ee use 50 amp and sometimes use 2x30amp cords
One 30 will keep us alive
We have a huge bank of battery's and very large inverter but we are 90 feet
__________________

Sea Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012