Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-30-2018, 02:02 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Alternator does not charge

I have a CAT 3306 diesel, which includes an alternator 130A/12V, Leece-Neville. It seems that the alternator does not do much. It certainly does not charge the house banks, but now my cranking batteries are loosing voltage, as well.
Any suggestions what to look for here? I am not an electrician, but I can use a voltmeter. Photos are available.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/m...albums751.html

I also have a generator, which suppose to charge the cranking batteries, but that does not seem to charge, either.
The batteries are 3 years old and the water level is regularly checked.
__________________
Advertisement

LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 02:42 PM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,470
You might check alt output w meter. Should be at least hi 13V to lo 14V. If that is suspect remove and have an auto electrical shop check alt out.
Seems suspicious that alt and shore power charger would both fail together.
Are either or both run through diode isolaters to serve 2 or more battys? If so they have a built in V drop and make charging not as complete /efficient.

See link for what I found and fixed on my MShip - Charging System Mods
http://dkloeber.wixsite.com/bacchus/project-pg-4
__________________

__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 02:59 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
Seems suspicious that alt and shore power charger would both fail together.
Are either or both run through diode isolaters to serve 2 or more battys? If so they have a built in V drop and make charging not as complete /efficient.
Unfortunately, I don't have much to go on. There is no documentation available. The shore power was upgraded to 50A a while ago, so new wiring was put in place, plus the Inverter/Charger. This setup works fine and the two house banks are charged and maintained.

The cranking batteries are charged separately. I was told to run the generator to charge them. I know, it does not really make sense, since these cranking batteries are starting the engine and the generator. If the Alternator is not charging these, what does?

Perhaps if you look at the pictures, you might see something I don't?
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 03:07 PM   #4
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,470
No pics?
Tough to tell anything about wiring w pics and impissible to guess what any PO may have done / modified.
You will likely have to start tracing wires to find out what is connected to what. That's what I had to do as a starting point to know what I had. Then evaluate short comings and possible improvements.
Calder's book on boat electrical systems might be a goid investment.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 03:09 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
No pics?
Tough to tell anything about wiring w pics and impissible to guess what any PO may have done / modified..
I have posted photos in my profile. You can see them.
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 03:17 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
The pictures

I hope they'll show up.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0503.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	97.3 KB
ID:	79180   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0507.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	98.1 KB
ID:	79181   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2243.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	168.6 KB
ID:	79182   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2242.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	151.1 KB
ID:	79183   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2246.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	137.9 KB
ID:	79184  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2248.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	119.3 KB
ID:	79185   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2254.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	159.9 KB
ID:	79186   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2255.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	112.2 KB
ID:	79187   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2256.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	173.0 KB
ID:	79188   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2257.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	158.5 KB
ID:	79189  

LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 03:20 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Wire or hire?

What I need to decide, if I wish to troubleshoot this myself and learn, or shall I bite the dust and pay to someone to fix this, or replace the crank batteries charging system?
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 03:28 PM   #8
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,470
Now see them. Working from phone could not access albums previously.
Like I said... no way to tell what the circuit connections are from pics.
Only comment I'd make is it looks like more lose unsupported / unprotected cable runs than I would be comfortable with... one seems espevially close to alt pulley.
I know thats not your problem... just a comment.
Really need to develop an as-is schematic.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 03:57 PM   #9
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,445
I would suggest that you hire a marine electrician to look the system over and draw a schematic diagram for you. Get the electrician to explain your system to you so you can get a good understanding of what you have and basically how it works. The money you spend on it will pay off in the long run.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 06:02 PM   #10
Veteran Member
 
City: St. Petersburg
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 77
A WAG is that the water damage seen around the front of the engine has infiltrated the alternator.

Agree with #9; hire an ABYC Certified Marine Electrician and have him map out the system, develop a wiring diagram, correct discrepancies found and train you how to do it all.

I do this regularly with my clients...I try really hard to work myself out of a job! :-)
__________________
Charlie Johnson
CharlieJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 06:24 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Galveston, Texas
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Model: 24" El Pescador
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 532
Quote:
I was told to run the generator to charge them. I know, it does not really make sense, since these cranking batteries are starting the engine and the generator.

It sounds like there was a known problem, the main engine alternator was not charging the start batteries as it should and the work-around was to use the GenSet to do the job.
__________________
Ken Diestler
Galveston, Tx
ktdtx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 07:27 PM   #12
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,321
If you want to learn, then trace out the wiring yourself. Almost all auto parts stores will test your alternator for free. The cheapest place for a standard alternator is probably ebay. You don't have to have the exact same make/model, but if your tach gets it signal from the alternator, then you need one with that feature. It could be the po was only using the alternator for a tach signal.

The internet is full of info on how alternators work and how to test/rebuild. Also Youtube.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 07:28 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
I would suggest that you hire a marine electrician to look the system over and draw a schematic diagram for you. Get the electrician to explain your system to you so you can get a good understanding of what you have and basically how it works. The money you spend on it will pay off in the long run.
Yes, I tend to agree with you. It is just a slippery road for a novice to discover this jungle.
I am searching for an electrician now.
Anyone recommends one in the PNW ?
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 07:31 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
It could be the po was only using the alternator for a tach signal.
Interestingly, the voltage test showed 12.45V at the cranking batteries contacts. But the pilothouse volt meter was close to the red already.
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 08:05 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktdtx View Post
It sounds like there was a known problem, the main engine alternator was not charging the start batteries as it should and the work-around was to use the GenSet to do the job.
Yes, this is what I was told by the seller. However, yesterday I ran the generator and it did not charge the crank batteries. At least, I did not see any sign of it on the gauges.
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 08:07 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
A WAG is that the water damage seen around the front of the engine has infiltrated the alternator.
:-)
That is very much possible. There was water under the engine for long time. The rust proves it. I cannot tell, how high the water came up, but you are making a very good point.
Either way, I will get a new alternator and maybe fix this damaged one for backup.

Why don't you live closer to PNW? LOL
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 09:51 PM   #17
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: B.C.
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,365
To start to find out if alter. is or is not working

In photo #4. Big red wire on large stud on alter. back. Check for voltage there while NOT running. If voltage shows then the alt. is connected to a battery, just don't,t know which one. Note voltage.

Start engine, raise revs to approx. 1,000 and do the same test. Voltage should rise to appro. 13.5 v or so.

If it does alt. Is Working. Stop engine and start tracing that output wire to find out exactly where it is connected. Need to know..

If voltage does not rise then alter. Is NOT working. Take to a shop for repair or replacement. If replace then get same Leece Neville unit. They are good builders. Don,t compound your trouble with a different unit.

Just a start.

Faster of course would be a Marine electrician.
C lectric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 11:01 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by C lectric View Post
To start to find out if alter. is or is not working
In photo #4. Big red wire on large stud on alter. back. Check for voltage there while NOT running. If voltage shows then the alt. is connected to a battery, just don't,t know which one. Note voltage.
Faster of course would be a Marine electrician.
At the back of the Alt. there are two red wires connected. One comes to the starter battery + connector, the other one goes up to a switch, which can isolate the house banks from the Alt. See photo.
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 11:05 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306 Turbo.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 291
big red wire

From the Alt, it goes up and through the switches and fuses goes to the Inverter.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2244.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	130.9 KB
ID:	79193   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2245.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	134.4 KB
ID:	79194   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2246.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	137.9 KB
ID:	79195   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2248.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	119.3 KB
ID:	79196  
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2018, 07:45 AM   #20
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,921
Get engine running at say 1000rpm and put a voltmeter right on the alternator output (big red) terminal. Report what you find. Do this with AC powered charger off.

Alternators such as yours are very fixable and very well made. All towns medium size up will have a starter/alternator shop that can go through it if needed, typical repair bill is like $100.

I do not replace alts unless burned up, sunk, or bearing failure.
__________________

Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012