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Old 02-06-2019, 11:50 AM   #1
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Airmar 110WX vs 220WX

I want a wind instrument on my tug. Not sure how bad I need it, but I want it. I'm looking at the Airmar and am not sure I understand the difference between the 110WX and 220WX models.

I do want True wind speed. In my sailing days, I had a masthead unit that delivered wind speed to my (Ray ST60) wind instrument. I assume the wind instrument calculated the apparent vs true wind speed from the analog signal the rotor delivered.

The Airmar 110WAX does not claim to furnish true wind speed on a moving boat, while the 22WX does, using installed GPS etc. data. My question is, will my MFD and various displays not calculate the true wind speed from the various other instruments on board? Do I need the 220WX onboard sensors to give me True Wind Speed?

I have Raymarine ES128 MFD and I70s displays with an evolution200 autopilot and Ray's AIS650, all on the Raymarine proprietary network, which I believe is pretty close to NMEA2000? I am not yet very well versed in this technology if that's not obvious to the reader yet.....

What problems am I getting into if I order this new technology and do I need the more expensive 220WX?

I'm afraid I don't even know if I am asking the right questions.

Thanks for your time and experience.

David
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:07 PM   #2
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I have the 110. It does true and apparent wind. It does not have a humidity module standard but you can add one. standard on 220. The 220 adds roll pitch and yaw measurements. My MDF does not accept that so I got the 110. Very happy. I may add the humidity modules as it helps with dew point and fog.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:13 PM   #3
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I donít know either but would love it if you figure it all out for me too. I also have Raymarine.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:15 PM   #4
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You want to get the 220wx if you want True Wind Speed. The 110wx is designed for stationary mounting as in a land based weather station. There are many additional features of the 220wx that you may/may not need, such as electronic compass, rate Gyro, humidity, temp, etc.
I believe you would need an adaptor to connect to your Raymarine instruments. The 220wx outputs in Nmea 0188 and N2k. We have one installed in a Furuno N2k network and it works great. The electronic compass is accurate enough to provide heading data for the autopilot and radar. The only caution I would make is choose the mounting location carefully, as the unit is very sensitive to the wind. Do not mount it close to any antennae’s or lights as it will affect wind direction readings. Enjoy.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:16 PM   #5
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I just put in a 220 and am happy with its wind measurements but unhappy with the fact its another thing on the network outputting GPS and a ton of stuff my sat compass does, yet with less accuracy. If there was a way to turn the PGNs off I would get the 220, but now wishing I had purchased something a bit simpler.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:46 PM   #6
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ArthurC: the 220Wx outputs all the data pgns for the various measurements. You have to go to your network manager or mfd software to turn off the pgns you don’t want to use, or tell the mfd which sensor to use for the data.
On my Furuno, I can go to the data connection screen and check which data sender works with which data receiver I want to use. For instance, I keep the 220’s gps data as a secondary source in case the primary gps burps.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:02 PM   #7
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The real answer lies in your display, not the weather instrument. To compute ground or true wind (I have yet to hear a cogent explanation of how True is different from Ground, but that's another topic), you need some combination of SOG, COG, HDG, and STW. The weather instrument inherently is measuring apparent wind speed and direction, then some math needs to be applied to figure out the others.


The 220WX is also a heading sensor and GPS, so it produces all the above except STW. But I'm not at all sure that it calculates and broadcasts true or ground wind. It's been a while since I owned one, but my money would be on it just broadcasting the component data, and leaving it up to the display to compute whatever it wants.


I know for certain that the Maretron displays can compute and display true and ground winds using a wind instrument like the 110WX. After all, their own, now defunct (thankfully) WSO doesn't report true or ground wind, only apparent wind, and the Maretron displays can calculate and display true and ground. Of course there must be a GPS and/or heading sensor on the network, but they can be any such device and don't need to be part of the WX instrument.


My guess would be that any reasonably modern display device can do the same thing as Maretron.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by GGroves View Post
ArthurC: the 220Wx outputs all the data pgns for the various measurements. You have to go to your network manager or mfd software to turn off the pgns you donít want to use, or tell the mfd which sensor to use for the data.
On my Furuno, I can go to the data connection screen and check which data sender works with which data receiver I want to use. For instance, I keep the 220ís gps data as a secondary source in case the primary gps burps.
Gary
Hi Gary,
Unfortunately itís not that simple, at least on my system, I have TZTs, TZ Pro and a ton of Maretron and Furuno gear, while you can set the instance (my 220 is set to 199) itís still throwing a ton of unneeded pgns out there, for instance for gps, itís the sc33 then gp33 then tzt then 220. For hdg itís sc33, pg700, then 220. While that seems fine on paper and itís set both by instance priority but also in the mfd configs, occasionally they get confused. Iíve also noticed some devices ignore instance priority. I suspect this is one reason why n0183 isnít going away and imo devices like my open array radar and fa170 AIS.
Btw by network manager did you mean n2kanalyzer or actisense?

Thanks
Arthur
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:53 PM   #9
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As TwistedTree said the WX has gps and heading, I can confirm it computes internally apparent wind speed, true speed, true direction, etc.
If interested I can grab a sniff of the actual pgn output this weekend. I’m not sure if it’s true or magnetic heading readings but fairly certain it’s magnetic.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:42 AM   #10
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I have the 220 and it is definitely possible to selectively turn off PGN transmission by using the weathercaster software that can be downloaded from the airmar website. I got the 220 so that I would have an additional redundant source of gps/heading, but for wind data either model will do because any MFD or PC nav software will calculate true wind when provided with apparent wind from the wind sensor (assuming of course that it is also receiving gps info from somewhere).
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:24 AM   #11
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For what it's worth, I found that cogent explanation I was looking for of the difference between True and Ground wind.


Apparent wind is what a wind instrument on a boat measures, and is obviously influenced by the boats speed and direction of travel.


Ground wind is what would be reported by an instrument stationary on land. It can also be computed by the vector addition of Apparent wind plus SOC/COG.


True wind is what would be reported by an instrument drifting on the water surface, and moving with any water current. It can also be computed by the vector addition of Apparent wind plus STW/HDG.


So Ground is ground referenced, and True is sea surface referenced. And the difference between the two would be set and drift.


This makes total sense. What had confused me is that you can tell a Maretron wind display to show true wind and it will, even though there is no STW available. I'd say that's a bug.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MV Alchemy View Post
I have the 220 and it is definitely possible to selectively turn off PGN transmission by using the weathercaster software that can be downloaded from the airmar website. I got the 220 so that I would have an additional redundant source of gps/heading, but for wind data either model will do because any MFD or PC nav software will calculate true wind when provided with apparent wind from the wind sensor (assuming of course that it is also receiving gps info from somewhere).
Does that setting still exist? I tried to turn it off but couldnít find it, even asked the Furuno guys at the boatshow with limited success. Iím accessing it via an actisense n2k to usb and the weather caster software.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:44 AM   #13
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I do want True wind speed......The Airmar 110WAX does not claim to furnish true wind speed on a moving boat, while the 22WX does..... Do I need the 220WX onboard sensors to give me True Wind Speed?
The eS128 MFD supports True Wind Speed data. Notice in the link below which compares Lighthouse II with Lighthouse III that both revisions support GRIB Weather data. I don't know if you need 22WX onboard sensors to get True Wind Speed on your eS128 but I'm sure Raymarine can answer your question.

LightHouse 3 Software Updates for eS & gS Series | Raymarine - A Brand by FLIR
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:40 AM   #14
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I have Raymarine ES128 MFD and I70s displays with an evolution200 autopilot and Ray's AIS650, all on the Raymarine proprietary network, which I believe is pretty close to NMEA2000? I am not yet very well versed in this technology if that's not obvious to the reader yet.....
David
As others have mentioned, the 220 is the more feature packed instrument and it should calculate True Wind. As twistedtree also posted, the definitions between True, Apparent, and Ground wind are all calculated using other bits of data.

The thing that sets the 220 apart is that it calculates some of those itself, whereas most wind instruments only provide the wind speed, leaving the destination instrument, like your Raymarine, to do the calculation inside of them by using SOG, COG, and STW provided by other instruments.

Almost all instruments do this now - it used to be they did it differently, or required their own sensors, but in my testing, I have not seen this in the last major generation (or two) of all of the manufacturers.

In the case of your Raymarine equipment, I have tested the "es" series and know it does this for you, but if you get the 220 it won't matter.

In order to connect them all, you will need to connect the 220 to your SeaTalkNG network using either a jumper cable, or by buying a SeaTalkNG drop cable, chopping the end off, and adding a NMEA 2000 connector for the 220WX. Alternatively, since it puts out NMEA 0183, you could wire it directly into your chart plotter, but I'd go the former before the latter.

You'll also need to pay attention to length of cabling and location. Going too far just for the wind instrument could mean you need to move your terminator and/or extend things. It would help to know where your current equipment is, and a drawing of how it is all connected.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:30 AM   #15
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As TwistedTree said the WX has gps and heading, I can confirm it computes internally apparent wind speed, true speed, true direction, etc.
If interested I can grab a sniff of the actual pgn output this weekend. Iím not sure if itís true or magnetic heading readings but fairly certain itís magnetic.

I'd be interested in the actual PGNs. For example, does it send the Wind PGN three times, once each for Apparent, True, and Ground? And if it's sending True, where is it getting STW?
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:39 AM   #16
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Thank you to everybody that contributed to this thread. I have learned a lot, and I am proceeding with this project slowly. I'm off to help a buddy deliver his sailboat to San Diego and when I get back I should have more time to study and do.

I think the 220WX is in the cards, with the thought that having all of the extra data is a good thing, especially if I want to add same to my ipad, which I run INavX on.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:18 AM   #17
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I'd be interested in the actual PGNs. For example, does it send the Wind PGN three times, once each for Apparent, True, and Ground? And if it's sending True, where is it getting STW?
Will try and capture them next weekend, this weekends boat projects experienced a snow delay since the entire western Washington shuts down with any sign of snow...
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:16 AM   #18
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Have a look at the Bluetooth device made in Zaragosa Spain - Calypso - I have one and its easy to install (self powered from its solar panel) bluetooth to your tablet/phone gives all the data you need, small and fits onto a 16mm screw thread.

In Europe it costa about €400
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:29 PM   #19
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Hi Gary,
Unfortunately itís not that simple, at least on my system, I have TZTs, TZ Pro and a ton of Maretron and Furuno gear, while you can set the instance (my 220 is set to 199) itís still throwing a ton of unneeded pgns out there, for instance for gps, itís the sc33 then gp33 then tzt then 220. For hdg itís sc33, pg700, then 220. While that seems fine on paper and itís set both by instance priority but also in the mfd configs, occasionally they get confused. Iíve also noticed some devices ignore instance priority. I suspect this is one reason why n0183 isnít going away and imo devices like my open array radar and fa170 AIS.
Btw by network manager did you mean n2kanalyzer or actisense?

Thanks
Arthur
I've had similar challenges with a whole new Furuno system I am installing on my boat which includes TZT2's, PG700, RD-33's, FI-70's, FM-4800, NavPilot 300 and a few other things.

In many cases, on boot up, the TZT2 and NavPilot products will select a different GPS or compass source than the one I've hard selected. This happens as far as I can tell because the other devices are seen on the NMEA 2000 bus first, and so the TZT/NP assume that the one I had chosen before is not available, and auto-switches to the new one.

I've confirmed this behavior a number of times, and as a result, I've done what you're asking to do - turn off certain devices/PGNs so that only the ones I really want are used, or start specific things up in a particular order. Annoying.

I have been looking at an ultrasonic wind sensor for this whole new setup as well, and had used the LCJ Capteurs one on my previous boat, but their US reseller (Fugawi) stopped carrying them. I had been working directly with the factory to get one, but there is a lot of confusion around import and other pieces. And it is only wind, nothing else.

I think at this point I am going to go with the Airmar WS-120 since all of my other devices (Furuno, Raymarine, Maretron, B&G) will calculate true wind, and I don't need another compass source that is high up on the boat rolling around.
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:40 PM   #20
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In many cases, on boot up...
Heh, the saving grace with my ancient NavNet3D MFD12's is they take sooooo long to boot that everything else is absolutely certain to be already running.

Meanwhile upgrades to the AC will see installing a new zone unit probably pretty close to where the PG-700 is installed. Someone previous to us put an H2183 all the way up the mast. No idea why, but it's not staying. At least that leaves a mount for a 220WX.

Supposedly the Weathercaster software is able to dis/enable what PGNs are sent.
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