Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-13-2014, 10:58 AM   #21
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
It seems pretty odd that your 120 volt circuits are powered by an inverter even on shore power but since you are an electrician you should be able to fix that.
How about an automatic transfer switch?
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 11:13 AM   #22
Guru
 
BobH's Avatar
 
City: Montgomery, TX
Country: USA
Vessel Model: None, but looking
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 778
I think it's fairly common for the AC circuits to go through the inverter. That way when power fails the inverter will pick up the load automatically. I've dealt with at least four inverters on different boats and they all worked that way.

Bob
__________________

BobH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 11:16 AM   #23
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH View Post
I think it's fairly common for the AC circuits to go through the inverter. That way when power fails the inverter will pick up the load automatically. I've dealt with at least four inverters on different boats and they all worked that way.

Bob
Yes, but with a transfer switch, not operating only from the inverter.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 12:19 PM   #24
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
It's a pass through setup of relays...common....

But can be an issue...I had one weld itself and that's why I'm skeptical of high end inverters...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 02:53 PM   #25
Guru
 
Aquabelle's Avatar
 
City: sydney
Country: australia
Vessel Name: Aquabelle
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Flushdeck
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 538
The air-con can be direct-wired to be fed by shorepower or genset pre-inverter...in fact this would be normal where there's more than one larger air-con unit, which would not be uncommon on a 43-footer: transfer switches integrated with inverters are typically limited to around 30A...50A max . But now we know Cathy&David don't plan to anchor out (?), why bother with an inverter at all?
Aquabelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 09:59 PM   #26
Veteran Member
 
Cathy and David's Avatar
 
City: Hilton Head, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irie Daze
Vessel Model: Albin 43 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
More Info

I spent the day at the boat and I am fairly confident that the transfer switch function failed with the inverter or else I would have had 110 v when connected to shore power. I am pretty sure the charger function also has failed. We do have a solar charger incorporated with the solar panels that is currently keeping the batteries at full charge. I am very grateful to have this capability.
We also got the follow me TV programmed so I was able to watch the Masters while having rum drinks. We grilled steaks on the aft deck and had a beautiful sunset on Skull Creek. All in all a beautiful day! I really appreciate everyone's advice as we worked through this problem. Now I am just waiting on my S series holding tank vacuum pump rebuild kit so we can have working heads once again.
Cathy and David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 06:34 AM   #27
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,529
>It's a pass through setup of relays...common....<

Most inverters only handle 120V , the usual southern boat will be 240V .

Some inverters will boost the operating power , some just switch over when power dies.

A method of transfer from dock to noisemaker to only inverter is not hard or expensive.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 08:52 AM   #28
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
>It's a pass through setup of relays...common....<

Most inverters only handle 120V , the usual southern boat will be 240V .
.....................
Where did you come up with that? The usual southern boat is just like the usual northern boat. Boats are designed to move from place to place and many move from north to south and back each year.

My boat is 120 volt and lives in the south.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 08:55 AM   #29
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy and David View Post
I spent the day at the boat and I am fairly confident that the transfer switch function failed with the inverter or else I would have had 110 v when connected to shore power............
Check for a fuse or circuit breaker on the inverter itself. Check your documentation if you have it or can find it on-line.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 11:44 AM   #30
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy and David View Post
We also got the follow me TV programmed so I was able to watch the Masters while having rum drinks. We grilled steaks on the aft deck and had a beautiful sunset on Skull Creek. All in all a beautiful day! I really appreciate everyone's advice as we worked through this problem. Now I am just waiting on my S series holding tank vacuum pump rebuild kit so we can have working heads once again.
I have to say, you do have your priorities straight!
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 06:58 AM   #31
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,529
Most boats in the South have air cond aboard.

As more than one unit is usually required a 30A120v power hose is usually too small, tho a boosting inverter will help start #2 air cond..

The ancient 120V 50A plugs and wiring is long gone from most marinas.

So 2 legs of 120V are usually brought aboard , called 240V in most areas , even tho few boats actually USE it as 240V.

Northern boats that operate all winter will usually have a furnace of some type.

The use of 120v electric is a waste of effort ( 30A is only about 12,000btu)and 240V resistance heat would pay for a furnace in a short time if on metered electric.

Boats travel,so electric setups does vary , ours has an installed Dickinson range for heat .
And a 15A extension cord to power something should we be dockside , NO installed AC electric system at all, as none is needed.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:48 AM   #32
Veteran Member
 
Cathy and David's Avatar
 
City: Hilton Head, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irie Daze
Vessel Model: Albin 43 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
2 Phase

Yes most boats now utilize 2 legs or phases of 120v although most do not have equipment that utilizes 240V. My main distribution panel is set up to have each side on a separate protected 30A breaker with sub fed feeder breakers for the 120V loads.
Cathy and David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:55 AM   #33
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy and David View Post
Yes most boats now utilize 2 legs or phases of 120v although most do not have equipment that utilizes 240V. My main distribution panel is set up to have each side on a separate protected 30A breaker with sub fed feeder breakers for the 120V loads.
You have a 50A shore power cord and only 30A mains?
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 08:03 AM   #34
Veteran Member
 
Cathy and David's Avatar
 
City: Hilton Head, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irie Daze
Vessel Model: Albin 43 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
Inverter Boost

The comment of inverter boost is somewhat misleading. The inverter design can sometimes allow short time peak wattages to exceed the wattage rating of the inverter. This is usually rated in seconds and probably is not good for the electronic components. Electronics do not respond well to overloads but hopefully they have accounted for this in the design.

Do people really have their AC on inverted power? I would think the battery bank would have to be massive to support this load and to have any extended run time. The ROI for such an arrangement versus a generator doesn't seem to make sense.
Cathy and David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 08:06 AM   #35
Veteran Member
 
Cathy and David's Avatar
 
City: Hilton Head, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irie Daze
Vessel Model: Albin 43 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
Power

Yes -(2) 30 amp mains. I run 2 30 amp cords through a 50 splitter.
Cathy and David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 08:07 AM   #36
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy and David View Post
The comment of inverter boost is somewhat misleading. The inverter design can sometimes allow short time peak wattages to exceed the wattage rating of the inverter. This is usually rated in seconds and probably is not good for the electronic components. Electronics do not respond well to overloads but hopefully they have accounted for this in the design.

Do people really have their AC on inverted power? I would think the battery bank would have to be massive to support this load and to have any extended run time. The ROI for such an arrangement versus a generator doesn't seem to make sense.
some people some or all AC on their inverters and have sized them according to their needs...either full time or partial both in load and duration..
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 08:44 AM   #37
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,798
Extremely extremely rare to see inverter powered AC. The Hatt has 240v (can take two 50 amp cords if need be for 100 amp total, only in the heat of summer though) for oven, range, laundry drier and the bigger AC units. Battery charger, AC Pump and a few other odds and ends also 230-240. My Magnum inverter can accept both 120v legs of a 50A 240 (passed first through two 30amp CBs) and pass them through to two 30 amp 120v sub-panels. Magnum sells a stacking kit so you can take two of some of their models and have 240volts. They make a single 240 now as well. So, a lot of options and variations depending on what your needs are. Certainly one area where generalizations are irrelevant.

And boat manufacturers don't make two different electrical services depending on what part of the USA the boat will be in. Every bit as many 240v volt boats one place as another.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 09:07 AM   #38
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Powering a decent sized air conditioner with batteries and an inverter would require a bilge full of batteries and a pretty special charging system. Do the math.

As far as "southern" or "new" boats being wired for 240 volts it's simply not true. Larger boats or boats with high electrical loads may be wired for 240 volts AC. Smaller boats and boats with smaller electrical loads are not. They are wired to suit their needs. My boat has a 16,000 BTU reverse cycle AC system works just fine on a single 30 amp shorepower circuit.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 06:41 AM   #39
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,529
>The comment of inverter boost is somewhat misleading. The inverter design can sometimes allow short time peak wattages to exceed the wattage rating of the inverter. This is usually rated in seconds and probably is not good for the electronic components. Electronics do not respond well to overloads but hopefully they have accounted for this in the design.<

That is ONE style of inverter ,,a better unit like a Trace 4024 does have an actual boost application.

It will take what is required from the batt bank to boost the voltage /amperage as required.

No time limit at all, IF the batts are big enough.

Had one gent here on a 15A 120v cord that ran an air cond AND the clothes washer for full cycles .

No problem , the Trace simply recharged the huge house 24v batt set all night long .

This style of boosting inverter is the best for folks with smaller noisemakers they happily load close to MAX.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 08:21 AM   #40
Veteran Member
 
Cathy and David's Avatar
 
City: Hilton Head, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irie Daze
Vessel Model: Albin 43 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
Battery Recharge

What recharges the batteries at night? Wind generator / diesel generator? If recharging via diesel generator it doesn't make sense to me to run these big amperage loads through an inverter. Inverters are not 100% efficient so it would seem like you are losing efficiency with this method. What is the point?
__________________

Cathy and David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012