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Old 10-02-2014, 08:56 PM   #21
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I already have a 5-speaker Bose speaker system in my salon. How hard can it be to mount a couple of microphones and a processor to feed the reverse phase audio signal into the speakers to attenuate the ambient noise? .
Wondering how this would work in two scenarios: First would be in a small trawler. Second, in the playroom when the grandkids come over..... OK, So I'm not so serious about one of those.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:10 PM   #22
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...and am just a likely to NOT hear some vague cry for help, not because I may use sound canceling headphones, but because of two 2500 HP diesels, a 100KW generator and 4 supply and exhaust fans on constantly!
Damn!! That Prairie 29 is MUCH larger than it looks!!
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:30 PM   #23
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Damn!! That Prairie 29 is MUCH larger than it looks!!

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Old 10-02-2014, 09:34 PM   #24
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sometimes the boat we play on, isn't the bot we work on!

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Damn!! That Prairie 29 is MUCH larger than it looks!!
This is the other woman in my life.

and the ice was about 12 to 18" thick!

You kidding me? I wear the Bose headphones around on the Prairie and the wife, and don't answer her, they're gonna get tossed over the side (just 'cause')
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:29 PM   #25
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I have to be careful here, I don't want to be sent off to another "Al hijacking a forum subject" too soon.

I agree with Cappy208 in his explanation and his situation he is correct. The vast majority of you folks seem to be boating in congested areas or at least with visual traffic for the most part unless you take an exceptional trip off shore or to distant lands such as Alaska.

Here in Southeast Alaska giving as an example, I can depart Ketchikan for Wrangell to play golf. The distance is some 85+ NM one way. Even in the height of the summer when a number of stateside boats are traversing this distance, the number of them that are ever in visual sight is slight. During the early or late part of cruising, the number is far,far less. As example, my last voyage in late August found me sighting one other pleasure boat in route up and none on the return trip 10 days later. Commercial boats? Yes as the fishing season is on there were several off in the distance of passing in narrow channels.
What I am attempting to state is in our case with only two aboard and 99% of the time in sight of each other and no traffic, the Bose headphones are not at the threat level discribed.
In closing, Cappy208 carries the day in this Bose discussion, just two different areas of operation with two different levels of concern.
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:47 PM   #26
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What I am attempting to state is in our case with only two aboard and 99% of the time in sight of each other and no traffic, the Bose headphones are not at the threat level described.

Al
As you describe it, I would absolutely hate if my significant other accidentally fell overboard and I didn't hear the splash or the muffled cry as it happened. When I am underway (on whichever boat I am operating) I have my ears open. I have not seen any information that has shown noise attenuation (however done) does not remove a certain specific noise. In a perfect world, sure, I would love it if all boats had galleys you could hear a pin drop in, or listen to a TV without waking up someone in the next stateroom. Unfortunately I don't have the bucks to make that happen.

It seems that the ability to remove the engine noise is what is desired. But masking it (via attenuation) would seem to increase background noise. Not sure if that's good on a boat. I would think eliminating the emanation of the engine noise would be the issue.

"Hear" is a comment from a sound company:
"Marine Sound Attenuation

Sound attenuation, or reducing the onboard noise is often considered an art. The industry has progressed to a state that boat crews often step outside from their cabin only to realize the vessels engines are running and she has already left the dock. This has been a problem in one instance where a crew member fell overboard and was not heard by the remaining crew inside their “bubble” of near silent boat operation."
Marine Sound Attenuation
So, It is a concern. I would rather opt for eyes and ears open.
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:51 PM   #27
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I have to be careful here, I don't want to be sent off to another "Al hijacking a forum subject" too soon..............
No chance of a Hijack as this discussion is exactly what I was looking for. I'll give all this more thought before pulling the trigger (thinking Bose at this point).

I'm more concerned about missing conversation with the Missus (and daughter) than the VHF.

The engine alarm is really loud and bright. Probably wont miss that.

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Old 10-04-2014, 03:47 PM   #28
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Effective insulation in the engine room or on the floor above I would think would be a more reasonable way to address pilothouse noise than having to wear ear protection. 5 to 10 Dba reductions can be had from improved hatch sealing. Insulation of dry stack trunks, engine room insulation, combustion air trunks, wire and cable paths, acoustic underlayments for floors and carpet can all contribute to a few Db's that can add up quick. There are several ways to reduce noise reasonably.

While this may be difficult, you do it once and it's passive, comfortable for you and your guests, and you don't have to keep track of ear protection.

Appropriate noise control at the source, rather than on your head ?

Just a thought from a "new guy"

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Old 10-04-2014, 04:11 PM   #29
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Effective insulation in the engine room or on the floor above I would think would be a more reasonable way to address pilothouse noise than having to wear ear protection. 5 to 10 Dba reductions can be had from improved hatch sealing. Insulation of dry stack trunks, engine room insulation, combustion air trunks, wire and cable paths, acoustic underlayments for floors and carpet can all contribute to a few Db's that can add up quick. There are several ways to reduce noise reasonably.

While this may be difficult, you do it once and it's passive, comfortable for you and your guests, and you don't have to keep track of ear protection.

Appropriate noise control at the source, rather than on your head ?

Just a thought from a "new guy"

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Generally I'd agree with you, except knowing some very well insulated engine rooms on some quality boats that still have a problem. Hatteras is a fine builder but their boats with the CAT's are generally loud. A 60' Hatteras with twin 1135's hits 76 db at 1000 rpm and 10 knots. From there it rises until it reaches 84 db at 2250 rpm.
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:37 PM   #30
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Wouldn't wearing noise cancelling headsets reduce the ability to hear the VHF radio, warning horns from other vessels, warning alarms from your own boat and yes, the cries for help from a crew member who has gotten hurt or fallen overboard?
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:44 PM   #31
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Noise attenuation can actually help in hearing some forms of noise outside of the drone of the engines.

I can hear the radios better and my cell phone ringing when I wear ear plugs on the assistance towboat where I sit on the engine box inside of a small cabin.

Noise cancelling if designed for a specific freq range can actually help a lot when listening for noises outside that range and will help in earing things out of the ordinary.
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:58 PM   #32
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Psneeld was quicker on a response to "Wouldn't If", thanks well said.
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:58 PM   #33
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Generally I'd agree with you, except knowing some very well insulated engine rooms on some quality boats that still have a problem. Hatteras is a fine builder but their boats with the CAT's are generally loud. A 60' Hatteras with twin 1135's hits 76 db at 1000 rpm and 10 knots. From there it rises until it reaches 84 db at 2250 rpm.
Hatteras makes very little effort at noise control and when they do its more a nod than any real effort. Very few production builders give more than lip service to noise control. The previously mentioned Cabo is a fine example of missing the noise reduction opportunity. On the 45 Express the helm pedestal is mounted on a box that if you open it you see the hull vents that bring combustion air to the engine room. No insulation whatsoever, just a thin solid molded fiberglass box with a hatch in it and engine noise right behind it.

Anyone handy at all could spend very little and get some measurable reduction without much effort at all. Just gaskets and cable path treatments could make a noticeable dent. By installing real insulation the reduction could be substantial.

I put acoustic carpet underlayment in my Mainship 34 and could have a conversation in the salon underway without raising my voice. Was easy.

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Old 10-04-2014, 07:08 PM   #34
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We used them extensively in aviation and they aided in hearing other noises by eliminating much of the 'droning' noise of the engines and air over the fuselage. With full-ear muffs which surround the entire ear lobe, there is an element of passive noise suppression like you'd get from typical ear muff style headsets without ANC. The electronic ANC component works best on the constant frequency noises.

When my kids were studying sound waves in high school, I brought a pair of ANC headphones home to demonstrate their effect. The sounds of ceiling fans, refrigerator compressor, air handlers etc are immediately silenced by a significant amount by the ANC. Normal conversation could be heard, but was slightly attenuated by the passive noise cancellation characteristic of the full-ear muff.

I would tink the best of both worlds would be to have adequate passive noise suppression in the form of something like ER Sound-down panels and stateroom carpeting plus stateroom ANC customized to the dominant frequencies and seating/sleeping locations.
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:21 PM   #35
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I love my Bose NC headsets, great on commercial flights as they drown out the cry's of children and young adults. They do attenuate sounds passively as well as actively so they will remove sounds from all spectrum's of your hearing not just the engine running, that could be bad.

If I felt I needed then in the wheelhouse then I would figure a way to make the wheelhouse quieter.

Side note, I had a fellow passenger on a flight inbound to Orlando (ton-o-kidslets) that was sitting next to me offer me 400 dollars cash at the beginning of our 5 hour flight.... I said sure in 5 hours, sadly he said now or never. I still have them.
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:36 PM   #36
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Generally I'd agree with you, except knowing some very well insulated engine rooms on some quality boats that still have a problem. Hatteras is a fine builder but their boats with the CAT's are generally loud. A 60' Hatteras with twin 1135's hits 76 db at 1000 rpm and 10 knots. From there it rises until it reaches 84 db at 2250 rpm.
I don't think the trawler set is going to run a 60' Hatt at WOT.

At trawler speeds, say 9-10 knots, we would have to make no adjustment to voice levels. At 1800-2250, slightly raised voices but no yelling.

As someone in the CE business, I would strongly urge trawlerites to consider other brands than Bose, an incredible waste of money. You are paying huge (can you say 90-95%?)margins to cover marketing and the name. Take a look at brands like Shure, for instance.
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:26 PM   #37
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I would strongly urge trawlerites to consider other brands than Bose,.

Unless your son in law works there and gave you a set for Christmas! 😄
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:38 PM   #38
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Psneeld was quicker on a response to "Wouldn't If",
He is quick, I'll give him that.

Just like electrical interference, you're much better off dealing with the source than trying to filter it out after the fact.
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:41 PM   #39
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I frequently use a pair of V-MODA Faders VIP by Ear Armor, Inc that reportedly reduce noise by 12dB. V-Moda makes some most excellent headphones, and the engineering and thought that seems to go into their products is well worth the price. The faders are only 15 dollars currently, and I can attest that you can still hear everything you want perfectly clear as I use these for everything from concerts to cutting wood.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:45 PM   #40
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Looks like my post got marked as an advertisement, but really, I'm just giving an apparently too glowing recommendation for some junk I like!
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