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Old 08-25-2014, 06:19 PM   #21
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Truly, if it were a perfect world a device would track and record low amperage conditions so the marina insurance company would be liable. Would not take many claims to force correction.
Many, many years ago we had just such a device at work (it tracked voltage over a period of time and displayed the results on a chart). How long ago was this you ask?

Well there was a cardboard chart driven by a clock motor and a pen that moved up and down with the voltage and drew a line on the chart.

I suspect the newer models are more sophisticated than that.
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:23 PM   #22
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Yeah, I have seen old school. The new control panels I feel sure have those option, or they have an app for that.
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:02 AM   #23
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The easy low cost solution is to find another slip at a marina that has the power you require .
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:50 AM   #24
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Thank you for the idea ghost, I was going to upgrade to a magnum 2812 before we leave to go down island in 4 years but was going to wait awhile. My question is I was going to have the magnum handle only a couple smaller items, wasn't even going to try running the AC off it. I just liked the big charging capabilities. Would I need 2 I/C? One to run the smaller stuff while on hook and one monster one to "condition" the voltage while still a dock queen for 4 more years? Or just use it for the AC now and rewire it when ready to cut the dock lines?
Could you explain what you mean by going down island? If you are leaving North America for the Caribbean you have an added issue of the switch from 60 hertz to 50 hertz. The most practical solution for the hertz change is to have one inverter / charger providing the 110v 60 hertz power for the boat and the other inverter/charger accepting the 50 hertz shorepower (assuming 110volts) and charging the batteries. If you get two Magnum 2812s you can gang them and may be able to run your airconditioning off the combined output while still home.

The next set up is to add an isolation transformer ($$$) and be able to convert to the European 220 volts to North American 220volts (still 50 hertz) so that the boat can split the 220volts into North American 110volts.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:27 AM   #25
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Found something called the surge guard 30amp that is used for RVs, would this work? It would have to control my 30amp line that feeds both 16000 btu ACs.

Are the two aircons the only thing running on that single 30-amp supply?

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Old 08-26-2014, 07:30 AM   #26
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Victron is not the most easy company to work with, so if i were to do this again I would seriously consider other companies such as Mastervolt which I think coincidentally is another Dutch company.

I was looking at a marina web page the other day, and it showed Mastervolt being a Marinco company.

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Old 08-26-2014, 08:28 AM   #27
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Good morning all, just got back from work. Yes, switching marinas would be the easiest but there are only two choices in New Orleans and the other has a 3 year waiting list.
Down island is just what the Admiral and I call it when we finally leave the dock for good and journey through the islands to Grenada, from there, who knows and how long, we're just gonna play it as it comes our way!
Yes, both AC's are run off a dedicated 30amp.
I'm leaning heavily towards Ghost's idea and getting the victron or mastervolt I/C to take care off the low voltage that comes our way. I was going to get it anyway, but the AC and several unforeseen boat bucks have hit hard this month. But if I'm learning anything from all the boat repairs over the last 4 years is DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME and don't friggin penny pinch when the good stuff is needed. That last one is hard for me cause I'm very frugal, or try to be living my dream of boat living and eventually long term cruising!
And to think I didn't buy a sailboat cause I thought they were too much work!!
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:36 AM   #28
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Oh, great. The ancient Cruise Air split system that i've been patching and limping with has finally died too. Oh well, 30 plus years was a good run. Looks like another purchase is in the works.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:42 AM   #29
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On a side note, I read on a AC install thread about someone using insulated pvc instead of the flexible hose to get better air flow and cooling. Any thoughts before I start buying in bulk? Sounds like it would work really good, but a pain in the butt to wrap the insulation and try to maneuver through the confined spaces/cabinets.

Sorry, I should probably start a new thread
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:52 AM   #30
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Good morning all, just got back from work. Yes, switching marinas would be the easiest but there are only two choices in New Orleans and the other has a 3 year waiting list.
Down island is just what the Admiral and I call it when we finally leave the dock for good and journey through the islands to Grenada, from there, who knows and how long, we're just gonna play it as it comes our way!
Yes, both AC's are run off a dedicated 30amp.
I'm leaning heavily towards Ghost's idea and getting the victron or mastervolt I/C to take care off the low voltage that comes our way. I was going to get it anyway, but the AC and several unforeseen boat bucks have hit hard this month. But if I'm learning anything from all the boat repairs over the last 4 years is DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME and don't friggin penny pinch when the good stuff is needed. That last one is hard for me cause I'm very frugal, or try to be living my dream of boat living and eventually long term cruising!
And to think I didn't buy a sailboat cause I thought they were too much work!!
If you have two conditioners running off the same 30 amp circuit, the voltage drop may well be on your own boat. Before you invest thousands of dollars in a fix you may not need, have a qualified person check your boat's wiring as well as the shore power to determine exactly where the problem is.

I posted above about a device that records voltage over time. A good electrician would have access to one of these or you could rent one. Connect it and record the voltage for a week or so. Ideally, this would be at the pedestal but on the same circuit as your boat.
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:58 AM   #31
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Undersized dock wiring is becoming a bigger problem as many vessels are requiring more high current devices. Boost or buck transformers are both expensive and heavy. This makes them difficult to install on many vessels <40'. I purchased a pair of Charles transformers years ago for my 40 Mainship I ended up selling them because I had no place to install them and I'll add one more comment they were really heavy!
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:11 AM   #32
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30amp dedicated should be enough I think to run 2 new 16000 AC's. It had been running the 2 older units since the late 70's. Several people at the marina have had pump, fan and compressor failures in the last 2 years since more boats/demand has been made on the electrical system. I have replaced all the wiring on that leg with tinned marine 10 gauge.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:14 AM   #33
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Buck boost is an option, but since I was going to upgrade my charging system in the next couple of years, I might as well get the victron Quattro now. Or when my bank account recovers!!
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:17 AM   #34
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30amp dedicated should be enough I think to run 2 new 16000 AC's. It had been running the 2 older units since the late 70's. Several people at the marina have had pump, fan and compressor failures in the last 2 years since more boats/demand has been made on the electrical system. I have replaced all the wiring on that leg with tinned marine 10 gauge.
My 30 amp that runs 2, 16000's is enough on the boat but often the corroded or burnt ends of my shore power or the dockside may make drop the voltage a bit...that's why I'm in the process of upgrading to 50A...even if I could live with 2x30 Amp, the much more robust wiring/connectors make a difference.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:29 AM   #35
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What all are you doing to upgrade to 50amp? My pedestal only has 2 30amp, but I'm always looking to increase the gray mass!
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:43 AM   #36
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well I have access to 50A 125/250 and most of the marinas I stop at to/from Florida.

even if I didn't, I would still upgrade the hardware because the 30 amp cords and receptacles are poorly designed to take much movement/abuse....or overload.

I'm gong full tilt with new distribution panels...but till I'm ready just upgrading everything from dock to main power panel, swapping 30A breakers for 50A. I've contacted the panel manufacturers and the buss bars will handle the load. I'll shoot infrader under hgh loads to make sure they aren't fibbing...even then I'll just add some jumpers to spread the load till I get the new distribution panels.

I figure the whole swap will be about $2000 (my labor) but as a liveaboard, living with less requires too much load shedding.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:51 AM   #37
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Buck boost is an option, but since I was going to upgrade my charging system in the next couple of years, I might as well get the victron Quattro now. Or when my bank account recovers!!
I'd go (and went) with a USA built and supported Magnum. They have a new series that does this load support function. Great customer service before and after the sale.

MSH-M Series Inverter/Chargers

Victron has begun to get a reputation for spotty support of products out of warranty, and day to day tech support. Good stuff, but why not buy American if you can, and deal with Americans when you have a question.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:57 AM   #38
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30amp dedicated should be enough I think to run 2 new 16000 AC's. It had been running the 2 older units since the late 70's. Several people at the marina have had pump, fan and compressor failures in the last 2 years since more boats/demand has been made on the electrical system. I have replaced all the wiring on that leg with tinned marine 10 gauge.
If you figure in the surge current on startup and remember that you also have one or two water pumps, I don't think so, especially if they both try to start at the same time.

Remember, the OP has a problem with suspected low voltage and it's best to check all the possibilities before spending big bucks on a "cure" that may not be needed.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:59 AM   #39
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God Psneeld, I would love to do that, it just seams the boat keeps emptying the bank account before I can replenish it!! Let alone our down island fund.
Magnum had always been my first choice, but I didn't see that they had load shedding capabilities yet. My concern is if someone pulls my plugs the system will try to power everything from my battery bank.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:06 AM   #40
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I believe master volt was bought by marinco not too long ago. That should improve their distribution.

When I put my system in, I had to design load shedding as my Victron multi did not come with multiple outlets as was clearly advertised. Victron just wanted to argue. Apparently they drop features for the us market, no idea why. In any case, I ultimately got it working on my own dime. Good product, but kind of a shoddy company given this kind of feature is their nitch, then they willy nilly don't deliver what was promised. A phase matching "power assist" inverter is a liability if it does not have automatic load shedding, as you are in danger of suddenly trying to invert power for way too much if you unexpectedly lose your input power. Other inverters without these capabilities don't get wired to benefit the whole ac system, so never get put in a position to need to selectively drop out.

I also added a small 10 amp breaker that I can manually throw that allows me to add the load shed circuits back in while not on shore power in a controlled but limited way. It's small enough that it will pop if more than one load is on the bus. But large enough that I can singly run one heater based circuit at a time. I use it to occasionally heat the water tank, or cook with the electric cooktop. I have found that I can power things at anchor selectively when I still have the amp hours available. I've been surprised that the amp hours to top up the heat in the water heater, or cook a meal is often not so bad. (25 ah to heat water for a shower, 30 to cook a quick breakfast).

I can sometimes get away with not running the Genny in the morning in a quiet anchorage. Pretty versatile.
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