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Old 08-16-2016, 11:36 PM   #21
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The difference with the boat example is there is a correct sized breaker where you plug the lamp in.


There is no way to put more than a 30 amp load on the shore power cord other than some sort of short between the pedestal and the boat...and as I said...it would be weird to have a greater than 30 but less than 50 amp short or other fault.


They make the adapters and no one bats an eye at that very common setup.

What protects the shore power cord?
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:48 PM   #22
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What protects the shore power cord?
The breaker on the dock.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:52 PM   #23
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The breaker on the dock.
You are absolutely correct and In the case discussed above a 50 amp breaker is protecting a shore power cord rated for 30 amps and there in lies the problem.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:28 AM   #24
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What protects the shore power cord?
If it shorts the 50A pedestal opens...and the cord is likely junk
If the boat overloads it one of the boats 30A CBs open
What other situations? Don't see how the cord carries 40A not from boat load??
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Old 08-17-2016, 06:16 AM   #25
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Cant say that the contacts are larger on 50A cords.... proportionately or otherwise.


My main thrust is the 50A cord camp is that it stays secure to the pedestal or boat where 30s rarely do in my experience unless the lock rings are able to be used.


It is their tendency to become loose while drawing high loads and arcing that seems to be their biggest cause for meltdowns.


My 50A cord never seems to get warm at the ends for two reasons...the reasons I decided to upgrade.


1. It is hard for me to keep a full load on one 50A leg. Short term with microwaves, slow cycling air conditioners, short high amp demands at outlets like a vacuum or power tool. You know....a liveaboard.


2. The connections remain tight, in full contact, thus preventing arcing.
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Old 08-17-2016, 06:18 AM   #26
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If it shorts the 50A pedestal opens...and the cord is likely junk
If the boat overloads it one of the boats 30A CBs open
What other situations? Don't see how the cord carries 40A not from boat load??
....and the Y cord adapter manufacturers don't seem to think it is an issue either as I had posted before.
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Old 08-17-2016, 06:44 AM   #27
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Just purchase a 50A 240V power cord and learn to live with the weight.

KISS

The dock CB will protect the cord your inside 30A breakers the vessel.

You 30A stuff will be fine (with an adapter) to bring 30A 120V aboard at a lesser marina , and (with another adapter ) 15A 120v when "thats all there is".
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Old 08-17-2016, 08:08 AM   #28
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This whole discussion is tangent to my original question...
Is there something significantly different about a 50 A twist lock vs a 30A that provides significantly larger contact area on current carrying contacts?
If you are concerned about your old 30A plug overheating, there are two other options besides a Smartplug. One is to graft a 50A plug on to the boat end of a 30A (#10 wire) cord. By leaving a 30A plug on the shore end, you would still not draw more than 30A.

The other is to use a J1772 plug on the boat end. This is the plug used to recharge electrical vehicles, and is rated at up to 75A. I have not seen one of these on a boat, but when my old 30A plug and socket dies, I will probably go this route.
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Old 08-17-2016, 09:10 AM   #29
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My main thrust is the 50A cord camp is that it stays secure to the pedestal or boat where 30s rarely do in my experience unless the lock rings are able to be used.
....and if you use the 1938 style of plug, the lock rings can be a real bitch to thread if it's at night or you are in a hurry.
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Old 08-17-2016, 10:17 AM   #30
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If you are concerned about your old 30A plug overheating, there are two other options besides a Smartplug. One is to graft a 50A plug on to the boat end of a 30A (#10 wire) cord. By leaving a 30A plug on the shore end, you would still not draw more than 30A.

The other is to use a J1772 plug on the boat end. This is the plug used to recharge electrical vehicles, and is rated at up to 75A. I have not seen one of these on a boat, but when my old 30A plug and socket dies, I will probably go this route.

Prepare to have that on a survey as a must replace item. I would also wonder what the insurance company would say if their was ever a problem, probably not an issue but why do it? Is it better/cheaper then the accepted, available stuff?
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Old 08-17-2016, 11:06 AM   #31
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If you are concerned about your old 30A plug overheating, there are two other options besides a Smartplug. One is to graft a 50A plug on to the boat end of a 30A (#10 wire) cord. By leaving a 30A plug on the shore end, you would still not draw more than 30A.

The other is to use a J1772 plug on the boat end. This is the plug used to recharge electrical vehicles, and is rated at up to 75A. I have not seen one of these on a boat, but when my old 30A plug and socket dies, I will probably go this route.
Actually if you want to go for a high amperage plug, you can use UL1686 pin and sleeve connectors and still be in compliance with ABYC E-11 and satisfy insurers. UL1686 are used by the millions in industry.

Although a J1772 may be a good connector, it certainly isn't within the scope of SAEs intended use.
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:29 PM   #32
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Cant say that the contacts are larger on 50A cords.... proportionately or otherwise.


My main thrust is the 50A cord camp is that it stays secure to the pedestal or boat where 30s rarely do in my experience unless the lock rings are able to be used.

I have seen nearly as many 50A 125V boat ends burn up as I have 30A boat ends. The pedestal ends usually have less issues because folks often take the strain off a bit better and the 50A pedestal end is a slightly better design....

These are 50A:


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Old 08-17-2016, 12:44 PM   #33
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I have seen nearly as many 50A 125V boat ends burn up as I have 30A boat ends. The pedestal ends usually have less issues because folks often take the strain off a bit better and the 50A pedestal end is a slightly better design....
That is not comforting...
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:03 PM   #34
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Actually if you want to go for a high amperage plug, you can use UL1686 pin and sleeve connectors and still be in compliance with ABYC E-11 and satisfy insurers. UL1686 are used by the millions in industry.

Although a J1772 may be a good connector, it certainly isn't within the scope of SAEs intended use.
SAE is an organization that writes standards for vehicles. ABYC is the organization that writes standards for vessels. ABYC requires compliance with the requirements of TP127 or E11.
Ship Electrical Standard, TP 127 requires approval by UL, CSA, ETL or a few other testing agencies. Smartplug is approved by ETL. J1772 connectors are approved by UL and CSA.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:46 PM   #35
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SAE is an organization that writes standards for vehicles. ABYC is the organization that writes standards for vessels. ABYC requires compliance with the requirements of TP127 or E11.
Ship Electrical Standard, TP 127 requires approval by UL, CSA, ETL or a few other testing agencies. Smartplug is approved by ETL. J1772 connectors are approved by UL and CSA.
E-11 has specific NEMA and UL approved plugs for boat side and shore side connections. ABYC cuts and pastes the image right from the standards.

Smartplug is neither. Nor is a J1772.

That aside, I have a smart plug on my boat. I believe it is superior to the ABYC approved connection.

TP 127 is for ships.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:42 PM   #36
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That is not comforting...
Note those are 50a 125v plugs. Not 50a 125/250v plugs.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:49 PM   #37
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Note those are 50a 125v plugs. Not 50a 125/250v plugs.

Yup, exactly the type of plugs found both on my boat and my dock pedestal.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:50 PM   #38
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Note those are 50a 125v plugs. Not 50a 125/250v plugs.
Thanks as I didn't look close...sure that 1st pic isn't a 125/250...it has that indent where the ground would be????


I wonder what CMS has to say about the 50A 125/250V ends.?

...sure I have seen a few melt...but not nearly as many as 30s. My own personal cords have definitely shown me a difference and not really a little one either.

I can see pushing the Smart Plugs ultimately..... but I would love to see a industry wide change...not so selective.
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Old 08-17-2016, 04:52 PM   #39
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I have seen nearly as many 50A 125V boat ends burn up as I have 30A boat ends. The pedestal ends usually have less issues because folks often take the strain off a bit better and the 50A pedestal end is a slightly better design....

These are 50A:
Thanks CMS...
Have you disected 50A plugs and do they suffer the same shortcomming as the 30A... small conract area on conductors??
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