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Old 02-06-2014, 10:15 AM   #41
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Would something like this work for you..... 50F/30M Amp RV Adapter - RVWholesalers.com RV Parts and Accessories
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:45 AM   #42
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Well I am almost afraid to ask, but can you please explain what "out of phase" means? I have seen it referenced several times.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:14 PM   #43
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I am chartering a boat with a 50 amp electrical system. It has a "Y" adapter with the power cord so when visiting a marina with only 30 amp service you can connect to two 30 amp receptacles. My question is, if there is only one 30 amp receptacle available can I connect one leg of the "Y" adapter to the 30 amp receptacle and be careful how much equipment I run? Do you think I could run reverse cycle heat and a few cabin lights? Is it dangerous to leave one leg of the "Y" adapter open?

Thanks
I'm not sure it's possible to answer the question without more information. At the boatside male plug where you attach the cord, what is stamped on the cover - 50 amp 250v or 50 amp 120v? I assume the latter. I also assume the "Y" is comprised of two 30 amp 120v male plugs and one female 50 amp 120 volt plug, and if so, the answer is no, you can't safely connect just one leg of that Y if the Y is not 'smart' because the male plug that is not plugged in will still be live and a shock hazard. If it is smart, then it won't operate at all with just one leg plugged in. If the Y has some other plug configuration, what is it?

Probably what you need is this: http://www.marinco.com/en/111a/pigta...king-male-plug

Here's an explanation of what phasing means in this context: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...f_out_of_phase
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:22 PM   #44
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Well I am almost afraid to ask, but can you please explain what "out of phase" means? I have seen it referenced several times.

Let me give it a try in layman's terms (those who actually know what they are talking about can correct me).

Normal 110 volt North American wiring has a positive (hot) and a neutral wire. The positive sends the juice out and the neutral returns the juice to the source/ground. However alternating current means that the a positive juice is sent out alternating with a negative juice (60 times a second).

North American 220 volt substitutes a second 110 volt hot wire for the neutral. Both hot wires send out alternating current but there is no neutral. For the system to work the positive and negative juice cannot be timed the same for both hot wires. If they are off sync so that when hot one is sending out positive and hot two is sending out negative then each hot wire's "neutral" is the other hot wire and the system works. This being out of sync is called being out of phase.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:32 AM   #45
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>North American 220 volt substitutes a second 110 volt hot wire for the neutral. Both hot wires send out alternating current but there is no neutral.<

Yes,,, BUT there are few US boats that have pure 240 devices on board .

So both the ground and neutral are REQUIRED for 120V operation from that 240V Source .

Power hose , noisemaker or inverter,
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:57 AM   #46
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........... I also assume the "Y" is comprised of two 30 amp 120v male plugs and one female 50 amp 120 volt plug, and if so, the answer is no, you can't safely connect just one leg of that Y if the Y is not 'smart' because the male plug that is not plugged in will still be live and a shock hazard. ..........
If it's not illegal to sell such an adapter, it should be because as you mention, the exposed male prongs of the unused leg would be electrically hot. I wouldn't call this a "shock hazard", I would call it an "electrocution hazard". Picture a child walking down the dock grabbing the plug to see what it is.

This is also the warning to all the cheapskates who decide that they can go to the home center, buy two plugs, a socket and a couple feet of wire and make their own "Y" adapter.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:12 AM   #47
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Let me give it a try in layman's terms (those who actually know what they are talking about can correct me).

Normal 110 volt North American wiring has a positive (hot) and a neutral wire. The positive sends the juice out and the neutral returns the juice to the source/ground. However alternating current means that the a positive juice is sent out alternating with a negative juice (60 times a second).

North American 220 volt substitutes a second 110 volt hot wire for the neutral. Both hot wires send out alternating current but there is no neutral. For the system to work the positive and negative juice cannot be timed the same for both hot wires. If they are off sync so that when hot one is sending out positive and hot two is sending out negative then each hot wire's "neutral" is the other hot wire and the system works. This being out of sync is called being out of phase.
To simplify things, let's color code the wires in the typical manner and the typical service:

Alternating Current electrical service (in the USA) consists of three current carrying conductors, typically a black "hot" conductor, a red "hot" conductor and a white "neutral" conductor. The black and red conductors are out of phase with each other and there is a potential of 220 volts (nominal) between them. The white conductor is the neutral and there is a 120 volt (nominal) potential between it and either the black or red conductor.

120 volt appliances like TV sets, toasters, microwaves, hair driers, etc. can be connected either between the black conductor and the white neutral conductor or between the red conductor and the white neutral conductor. Either connection delivers 120 volts.

Appliances like most electric ranges, most electric driers, and larger electric water heaters or airconditioners are connected between the red and black conductors and receive 220 volts. Often they will also have a connection to the neutral conductor to supply 120 volts to lights, clocks, controls, etc.

I've left the grround out of this description just for clarity. There should be no current flow in the grounding conductor except in the case of a fault.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:46 AM   #48
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Not positive...but this one makes it sound like the cord isolates and allows the use of one leg only...

Y & Reverse Y Adapters
  • The reverse "Y" adapter has two male plugs with special power isolation circuitry for added safety.
  • When on plug is connected to a receptacle, the circuitry isolates the second plug.
  • The reverse "Y" provides 50A 125/250V power when only 30A 125V receptacles are available.
  • Boat side: 50A 125/250V w/ sealing collar system.
  • Dock side: (2) 30A 125V locking.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:17 PM   #49
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Huh, very interesting. I wonder which leg it powers on the 50A side, or if they short them both together. Too bad Marinco's literature doesn't give a wiring diagram or otherwise say what it does.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:12 AM   #50
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>I wonder which leg it powers on the 50A side, or if they short them both together.<

For our bus conversion we have NO 240V users , so a special power cord that does JOIN together the red & black onboard is used for either 120v 30A or 120V 15A power supply.

Works fine , BUT the on board power use does need to be watched .

The Desperation Y for folks that have massive dockside power requirements needs to be complex to assure two different legs , one red and one black , from the same feed lines are used.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:00 AM   #51
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Huh, very interesting. I wonder which leg it powers on the 50A side, or if they short them both together. Too bad Marinco's literature doesn't give a wiring diagram or otherwise say what it does.

Don't know, but suspect that depends on the boat's distribution system, not necessarily the cord.

I know on our boat that this set-up will power our "port side" stuff, which includes the battery charger among other things. I was only interested in a quick winter time top-off charge at the time, and the boat was on the hard anyway, so I didn't investigate further.

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Old 02-08-2014, 09:36 AM   #52
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I looked on the Marinco website...often the plugs are labeled so you could see what goes where...but on that particular cord the labels were partially left off or obscured.

On 50A panels that don't have 220 setups, there's usually a combiner breaker/switch.

Not sure how it would work (or not) with boats that have a 220V
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:02 PM   #53
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I looked on the Marinco website...often the plugs are labeled so you could see what goes where...but on that particular cord the labels were partially left off or obscured.

On 50A panels that don't have 220 setups, there's usually a combiner breaker/switch.

Not sure how it would work (or not) with boats that have a 220V
I have a 50 amp male pig tail that will just give you 30 amps and 50 amp female that will plug intp a 50 amp cord and olnly give you 30 amps,they only use one leg and I also have a 50 amp hubell splitter that splits to 50 amps 110 all are for sale
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:44 PM   #54
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I have a 50 amp male pig tail that will just give you 30 amps and 50 amp female that will plug intp a 50 amp cord and olnly give you 30 amps,they only use one leg and I also have a 50 amp hubell splitter that splits to 50 amps 110 all are for sale
the question is...what type of panel inside the boat? 220V at all? 2 busses?
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:29 PM   #55
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the question is...what type of panel inside the boat? 220V at all? 2 busses?
my boat was only 30 amp, but they were nice when I got to a place where all the 30s were being used and I could plug in to a fifty and come out with 30, on the splitter it was 50 amp 220 but split down to 50 amp 110 which years ago they had on the old hatteras,but they have a adapter that you can plug into the 50amp 110 and come out with 30 110
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:32 PM   #56
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my boat was only 30 amp, but they were nice when I got to a place where all the 30s were being used and I could plug in to a fifty and come out with 30, on the splitter it was 50 amp 220 but split down to 50 amp 110 which years ago they had on the old hatteras,but they have a adapter that you can plug into the 50amp 110 and come out with 30 110
I'm guessing the 50 amp 220 was actually just a 50 amp with 2 110 legs that could give 220 if wired a certain way...like most are today...
That's why you are able to do what you are doing...
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:21 AM   #57
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I have several different adapters on my boat, both commercially made and home made. My boat is wired for two 30A Lines.
Last fall while in a boat yard on the hard in Texas City, Tx they had these 4 prong 220V outlets. I had never seen them before and my neighbor told me that the welders use those sockets. He just happened to have a home made adapter to convert the 4 prong 50A 220V socket to a 30A 110V socket. Being a little weary, I run my multi-meter across it and it checked out just fine so I used it and all was good.
Last week I ran into a guy who just bought a 48' something or other when he pulled into Gulfport Harbor in Ms. It was going to be a cold night and most of his electric had been fried. He was trying to borrow a heater and I had already loaned out my spare gas one. Fortunately, one of the harbor security women had a spare one in her boat and loaned it to him. The admiral had just made some chili and so I carried some over there. He told me he just bought the boat in New Orleans and went to a private dock near there to spend the night and when he plugged in, the fireworks began.
Moral of the story - always have a multi-meter when in doubt.
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:51 AM   #58
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just bought the boat in New Orleans and went to a private dock near there to spend the night and when he plugged in, the fireworks began.
Moral of the story - always have a multi-meter when in doubt.

AND the FIRST thing to check is the power being offered at the pole,, as it may be to no standard but that dock !!!

Trust but verify , works every time.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:12 AM   #59
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... went to a private dock near there to spend the night and when he plugged in, the fireworks began.
Moral of the story - always have a multi-meter when in doubt.
Good luck with that.

Few consumer multimeters have probes that will fit into a dock pedestal socket deeply enough to reach the contacts.

This one sounds more like a boatside or cord issue than the socket.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:38 AM   #60
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Well I am almost afraid to ask, but can you please explain what "out of phase" means? I have seen it referenced several times.
Three wires; black, red, white. Alternating current.

The black and the red are each 120 volts with respect to the white (neutral). The black one is positive at the same time the red is negative and vice versa. Out of phase. That makes 220 volts between them.

If the black and red were both 120 volts with respect to the white neutral wire at the same time, they would be in phase and there would be no voltage difference between them.
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