Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-05-2014, 07:18 AM   #21
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
OK, I'm really not understanding this .....
What is a smart cord? Brand name?
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 07:30 AM   #22
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,908
Both Marinco and Hubble marine power cords have one available. They are so you can use a 50 Amp power panel on a boat that requires 2 separate and out of phase 110V legs to make 220V. The smart part is just some solid state circuitry with switching that tests to see if you are hooked up correctly so you don't create a dangerous situation.

Wow... that sounds so simple I hope I'm not insulting you but even I'm not sure of all what the cords "actually" do or don't as the literate on the web is thin.

http://www.marinco.com/files/media/p...nco%20pg27.pdf

http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/p.../y.pdf&Page=26
__________________

psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 09:32 AM   #23
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Both Marinco and Hubble marine power cords have one available. They are so you can use a 50 Amp power panel on a boat that requires 2 separate and out of phase 110V legs to make 220V. The smart part is just some solid state circuitry with switching that tests to see if you are hooked up correctly so you don't create a dangerous situation.

Wow... that sounds so simple I hope I'm not insulting you but even I'm not sure of all what the cords "actually" do or don't as the literate on the web is thin.

http://www.marinco.com/files/media/p...nco%20pg27.pdf

http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/p.../y.pdf&Page=26
You are correct.

Simply, with an intelligent combiner, if both 30 amp male plugs aren't connected to out of phase outlets, you get no power out of the 50 amp 250 volt female plug, period!

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 09:49 AM   #24
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
Most likely "no" on the heat since on a 50A boat it is most likely 240V. Lights, maybe, but now you are asking to go down the hackery path and create something dangerous. If you are asking these questions, then you are exactly the person who shouldn't be playing with it. Just use two 30A outlets and the supplied adapter like it's supposed to have.

We can supply some power to our 50A/240V boat with a single 30-to-50 amp converter.

I don't know what power distribution is like inside the boat if we use the converter. The AC panel is divided into two sides (two legs), so I would guess the single 30-to-50 amp source may power only one side or the other. I know it does power the side with our charger (converter), since that's the only thing I've tried this way, once when wintering on the hard.

(None of our appliances (AC, etc.) are 220V; everything is 110V. We have two ACs and two fridges, one on each side of the panel.)

In fact, we ran that charger from a 15A power source, converted to a 30-amp connector, converted to a 50-amp connector.

I understand some of the newer boats in our line have an isolater installed, so a single 30-amp input will not work the way it does with ours.

FWIW, we've had limited success with the Marinco "Smart Y" -- but the couple three times we've wanted to use it, we could usually pin down the problem to either phasing (30A supplies weren't opposite phases) or voltage (supply couldn't achieve the advertised minimum of 208V).

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 11:34 AM   #25
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
So, this smart part with the solid state circuitry is inside the cord itself?
I can run my boat entirely off one 30A cord ( as long as I don't go over 30A) or two 30A cords to a 50A "Y".
My boat has worked with and without the smart cords.
How did my model year 1986 work without the smart cords?
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 11:56 AM   #26
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
I am chartering a boat with a 50 amp electrical system. It has a "Y" adapter with the power cord so when visiting a marina with only 30 amp service you can connect to two 30 amp receptacles. My question is, if there is only one 30 amp receptacle available can I connect one leg of the "Y" adapter to the 30 amp receptacle and be careful how much equipment I run? Do you think I could run reverse cycle heat and a few cabin lights? Is it dangerous to leave one leg of the "Y" adapter open?

Thanks
I'm gald i did not ask this question a year ago.
Many of these responses are making assumptions.
I may be making an assumption, bit let's take the question as asked.
If no 50 A outlet, he plugs his 30 A cord into the outlet without using the adapter. Wasn't that the question?

Then, on the boat, on one of his circuit panels, the circuits shold be separated (MY ASSUMPTION), if so, he diecides what circuit to power (based on what he wants to use) IF NOT, THEN READ ALL THE ABOVE BC IDHAFC.
__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 12:06 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
obthomas's Avatar
 
City: Seabrook Texas
Country: USA
Vessel Name: TheVenture
Vessel Model: 1985 Bestway Labelle Sundeck 40ft
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 462
There are enough permutations and combinations of shore power and panels that it makes it difficult to discuss them all on this forum. One of the best things a captain can do is to make a single line diagram of his boats electrical system. When I first got my boat I noted a parallel/ tie switch next to my ship shore switch that completely baffled me. Here are a couple of things I learned after making my single line diagram.

My shore power comes in on 2-30 amp 125 volt cords. They are typically out of phase but do not need to be because I have no 220 volt users.

the two shore powers are separate and stay separate in my load center. Basically one cord feeds my HVACs and the other all the rest of my loads.

If there is only one 30 amp shore power available it feeds the whole boat if I switch the parallel/tied switch to tied. Tied disconnects the second shore power and links all the AC breakers in the load center together.

It is also interesting that my generator is set up to provide 110volts. When switched to ship the generator provides power to all the 110 volt circuit breakers and the tied/parallel switch does not come into play.

My electrical set up is very ingenious but I would never have understood it had I not created a single line drawing of it. I was deathly afraid of that tied parallel switch until I understood its purpose.
obthomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 12:41 PM   #28
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by obthomas View Post
There are enough permutations and combinations of shore power and panels that it makes it difficult to discuss them all on this forum. One of the best things a captain can do is to make a single line diagram of his boats electrical system. When I first got my boat I noted a parallel/ tie switch next to my ship shore switch that completely baffled me. Here are a couple of things I learned after making my single line diagram.

My shore power comes in on 2-30 amp 125 volt cords. They are typically out of phase but do not need to be because I have no 220 volt users.

the two shore powers are separate and stay separate in my load center. Basically one cord feeds my HVACs and the other all the rest of my loads.

If there is only one 30 amp shore power available it feeds the whole boat if I switch the parallel/tied switch to tied. Tied disconnects the second shore power and links all the AC breakers in the load center together.

It is also interesting that my generator is set up to provide 110volts. When switched to ship the generator provides power to all the 110 volt circuit breakers and the tied/parallel switch does not come into play.

My electrical set up is very ingenious but I would never have understood it had I not created a single line drawing of it. I was deathly afraid of that tied parallel switch until I understood its purpose.
Well said, but mine is even simpler, as I have no parallel switch. Each cord goes to a 30 amp circuit and everything on my panel is labeled.I decide which circuit to use if I can use only one. The two A/Cs are on different circuits.
__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 01:17 PM   #29
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
So, this smart part with the solid state circuitry is inside the cord itself?
I can run my boat entirely off one 30A cord ( as long as I don't go over 30A) or two 30A cords to a 50A "Y".
My boat has worked with and without the smart cords.
How did my model year 1986 work without the smart cords?
There's usually never a problem going from a 50 amp 125/250V source slpit to 2-30A cords...it's the other way around where you have to worry about the different phases and back-feeding the one 30amp leg with exposed prongs.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 01:56 PM   #30
Veteran Member
 
City: Walnut Creek
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Currently Chartering
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 41
OMG I think I'll just cancel my charter! Just kidding...

Thanks for all the info though! What I think I have learned is the smart Y cord that is on the boat, (two 30 amp legs join into a box with indicator lights on it) will not allow me to connect to a single 30 amp service for safety reasons. I think I may be a able to use a 30 to 50 amp adapter but will only power some of the equipment. I can always run the generator but may not be popular in the marina....
Johnny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 04:30 PM   #31
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
So, this smart part with the solid state circuitry is inside the cord itself?
I can run my boat entirely off one 30A cord ( as long as I don't go over 30A) or two 30A cords to a 50A "Y".
My boat has worked with and without the smart cords.
How did my model year 1986 work without the smart cords?

There are two different kinds of 30-to-50 or 50-to-30 Y cords.

One (The "Smart" or "Reverse" Y) takes two 30A supplies from shore, and converts those into single 50A supply. Given certain conditions (30A circuits are in opposite phase, ours says it needs a minimum of 208V to work; see the 167RYN in the Marinco link, and note the big honkin' box at the junction).

The other is an adapter that starts with a single 50A shore source, and splits that into two independent 30A supplies. (See MARINCO EEL Y Adapter, 30A F-50A/250 M, Power Cord Adapter at West Marine)

For your description, sounds like you've encountered the latter? I guess this because you can run your boat on two separate 30A cords, assuming your shore supply is two 30A circuits. (Yes?) I too could run select stuff on both 30A circuits on a previous boat using only one 30A shorepower cord... as long as I didn't exceed 30A.)

If the latter is correct in your case, you would have no use for the Smart/Reverse Y version, because you don't need a 50A supply to run stuff in the boat. (And that can be a good thing; they're expensive.)

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 04:45 PM   #32
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wxx3 View Post

I may be making an assumption, bit let's take the question as asked.
If no 50 A outlet, he plugs his 30 A cord into the outlet without using the adapter. Wasn't that the question?

Then, on the boat, on one of his circuit panels, the circuits shold be separated (MY ASSUMPTION), if so, he diecides what circuit to power (based on what he wants to use) IF NOT, THEN READ ALL THE ABOVE BC IDHAFC.


Not exactly. Johnny started with:

I am chartering a boat with a 50 amp electrical system. It has a "Y" adapter with the power cord so when visiting a marina with only 30 amp service you can connect to two 30 amp receptacles.

That would mean the Y adapter is a twin-30-to-50A Smart (or Reverse) Y... which creates 50A out of twin 30s. (IOW, not a simple 50-to-twin-30A adapter, for a twin 30A boat.) And the boatside connector is a 50A male connector, needing a 50A female led from shore.

And then:

My question is, if there is only one 30 amp receptacle available can I connect one leg of the "Y" adapter to the 30 amp receptacle...

And the answer to that is no.

(Unless there's an exception because it's a 50A/125V (not 240V) boat; see the 166AY product in the earlier Marinco link. But that wouldn't jive with the original statement about making 50A out of "two 30 amp receptacles.")

OTOH, without using that particular Smart/Reverse Y adapter -- your point, I think? -- there may be a way to power some of the boat (depends on the boat's AC distro panel, etc.), using a single 30-to-50A adapter. We can do that, to a certain extent... but I haven't experimented much with that, haven't needed to.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 04:57 PM   #33
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,908
A smart reverse if used correctly can bring in 60 amps to the boat...though it does depend on the interior panel set up.

30 amps per leg and on the interior...each 50 amp sub panel/buss will only receive 30 amps but there are 2 most often so the total amperage the boat can siphon is 60 instead of it's normal 100.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 07:16 PM   #34
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
There are two different kinds of 30-to-50 or 50-to-30 Y cords. ...............

The other is an adapter that starts with a single 50A shore source, and splits that into two independent 30A supplies.
YES

I guess this because you can run your boat on two separate 30A cords, assuming your shore supply is two 30A circuits. (Yes?)

I too could run select stuff on both 30A circuits on a previous boat using only one 30A shorepower cord... as long as I didn't exceed 30A.)
YES

If the latter is correct in your case, you would have no use for the Smart/Reverse Y version, because you don't need a 50A supply to run stuff in the boat. (And that can be a good thing; they're expensive.)
The advantage would be the 50A capacity
-Chris
Thanks for the simple explanation.
Tony B
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 07:50 PM   #35
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
Thanks for all the info though!..... I think I may be a able to use a 30 to 50 amp adapter but will only power some of the equipment. ....
I don't think you will be able to do this, at least not with any commercially available adapter. The adapters that are commercially available are:

- 50A 120/240V shore power to 30A 120V boat. This is going in the wrong direction from what you need.

- 30A 120V shore power to 50A 120V boat. This is going in the right direction, but your boat has a 50A 120/240V inlet, not a 120V inlet. They are different and one will not plug into the other.

My boat is set up the same as the one you are chartering with 50A 120/240V on the boat side. I have a Smart Reverse Y that plugs into two 30A 120V shore outlets and combines them to fit a 50A 120/240V boat-side plug. You only get 30A @ 20/240V, but it works.

In the marinas I've visited that only had 30A service, I was always able to find two outlets. The one problem i DID encounter was 30A outlets that were spaced pretty far apart. It's very possible, perhaps even probably that the two 30A outlets you need to plug into are NOT on the same power post. In that case, you need a 30A extension cord or two to reach both outlets. In Eastern Canada, 50A service is rare outside of the big cities. Everywhere else it's just 30A. It wasn't long before I went and bought an extra 30A cord so I could always reach two 30A outlets.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 08:37 PM   #36
Veteran Member
 
City: Walnut Creek
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Currently Chartering
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 41
Thanks Twisted. This is exactly what I needed. And thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses.
Johnny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2014, 04:41 AM   #37
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,790
Johnny

You are right to ask. All of us started with less knowledge than we have now.

In summary a cruising boat with 50 amp service usually has both a smart Y which it can use with two 30 amp outlets and a 30 to 50 amp adapter to use when there is only one 30 amp outlet. Most cruising boats in this situation also carry a 30 amp 50 foot cord so that they can connect one half of the smart Y to the post at their slip and the other half of the smart Y using the 50 foot cord to a post at another slip.

Since smart Ys require that the two 30 amp plugs are out of phase to operate you may find that even when you connect to two different outlets the smart Y will not allow the current to flow through. In such case try a different outlet or switch to the 30 amp to 50 amp adapter.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2014, 05:49 AM   #38
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Pelican View Post
In summary a cruising boat with 50 amp service usually has both .... and a 30 to 50 amp adapter to use when there is only one 30 amp outlet. ....
Just note that I don't believe there are any commercially available 30A to 50A 120/240V adapters. All the commercially available adapters are 30A to 50A 120V, not 120/240V. The 50A plug/socket is different and one will not attach to the other.

By the way, another way to got a single 30A outlet to power (at reduced loads) a 50A 120/240V boat is via an isolation transformer with appropriate taps. The 30A 120V goes on one side of the xformer, and you pull the 120/240V off the other side with the neutral as a center tap on the transformer. If you have a boat with an isolation transformer and 50A 120/240V service, it's often a trivial wiring exercise to wire in an alternate 30A 120V inlet. Many Nordhavns are built this way so you can plug right into a 30A dock post and have fully functional 120/240V service on board, but of course at reduced load. But it's enough to run your 240V oven, or dryer, or water maker one at a time.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2014, 08:20 AM   #39
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post

Just note that I don't believe there are any commercially available 30A to 50A 120/240V adapters. All the commercially available adapters are 30A to 50A 120V, not 120/240V. The 50A plug/socket is different and one will not attach to the other.
See Pigtail Adapter with a 50A 125/250V Locking w/ Sealing Collar System Female Connector and a 30A 125V Locking Male Plug | Marinco

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2014, 08:53 AM   #40
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post


Not exactly. Johnny started with:

I am chartering a boat with a 50 amp electrical system. It has a "Y" adapter with the power cord so when visiting a marina with only 30 amp service you can connect to two 30 amp receptacles.

That would mean the Y adapter is a twin-30-to-50A Smart (or Reverse) Y... which creates 50A out of twin 30s. (IOW, not a simple 50-to-twin-30A adapter, for a twin 30A boat.) And the boatside connector is a 50A male connector, needing a 50A female led from shore.

And then:

My question is, if there is only one 30 amp receptacle available can I connect one leg of the "Y" adapter to the 30 amp receptacle...

And the answer to that is no.

(Unless there's an exception because it's a 50A/125V (not 240V) boat; see the 166AY product in the earlier Marinco link. But that wouldn't jive with the original statement about making 50A out of "two 30 amp receptacles.")

OTOH, without using that particular Smart/Reverse Y adapter -- your point, I think? -- there may be a way to power some of the boat (depends on the boat's AC distro panel, etc.), using a single 30-to-50A adapter. We can do that, to a certain extent... but I haven't experimented much with that, haven't needed to.

-Chris


yes, that was what I was trying to say. Thanks Ranger for being more articulate.
__________________

__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012