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Old 10-24-2015, 12:15 PM   #21
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Seems my idea of direct connection may not have been so good. I assumed if your SR6 and radar pedestal connection was Cat5 then your MFD had to be. This may not be the case and probably why Ray never suggested it. Seems the idiots at Ray used special cables Cat5 one end and their own goofy plug on the other end. Interesting to note that they have now quit using cat5 altogether, which was idiotic in the first place, and now have yet another style goofy plug to carry data. Combine this with their seatalk, seatalkHSB and seatalk HS cables it is a nightmare interfacing their stuff.

Here is a substitute very simple idea I confess I learned elsewhere. get a standard network switch anywhere and substitute it for your SR6. If the radar works it is your SR6, if not, its the cable from the pedestal or MFD.

Important Note I read elsewhere & may or may not be true: The Ray cat5 cables are proprietary and work in a standard cat5 network switch. The standard cat5 plugs do not work with Ray devices. A generic network switch has exactly the same properties as the Raymarine switch.ie: your Walmart cable would not have worked anyway. Not sure about this though as it was my understanding the only difference in Ray cat5 & walmart cat5 was a waterproof grommet on the Ray. Regardless, this is still a fast simple test to confirm if SR6 is faulty.
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Capt Kangeroo View Post
Seems my idea of direct connection may not have been so good. I assumed if your SR6 and radar pedestal connection was Cat5 then your MFD had to be. This may not be the case and probably why Ray never suggested it. Seems the idiots at Ray used special cables Cat5 one end and their own goofy plug on the other end. Interesting to note that they have now quit using cat5 altogether, which was idiotic in the first place, and now have yet another style goofy plug to carry data. Combine this with their seatalk, seatalkHSB and seatalk HS cables it is a nightmare interfacing their stuff.

Here is a substitute very simple idea I confess I learned elsewhere. get a standard network switch anywhere and substitute it for your SR6. If the radar works it is your SR6, if not, its the cable from the pedestal or MFD.

Important Note I read elsewhere & may or may not be true: The Ray cat5 cables are proprietary and work in a standard cat5 network switch. The standard cat5 plugs do not work with Ray devices. A generic network switch has exactly the same properties as the Raymarine switch.ie: your Walmart cable would not have worked anyway. Not sure about this though as it was my understanding the only difference in Ray cat5 & walmart cat5 was a waterproof grommet on the Ray. Regardless, this is still a fast simple test to confirm if SR6 is faulty.
The direct to MFD connection is a Cat5 looking plug....allbeit with a screw type watertight connection surrounding it. I pluged my CAT5 connector directing in, fit perfect.....and yet get nothing regarding radar on the MFD.

The manual shows this done but there is a "crossover coupler*" in between the CAT5 plug and the MFD. No where does it mention why this is necessary..... but the term "crossover" hints at perhaps pin out differences ? (wire no. 1 going to where wire no. 3 is....that sort of thing ?) But I'm just guessing really...no where is this actually explained.

If that is what is happening, apparently the "crossover" happens in the SR6 SeaTalk automatically...except my SR6 is suspect as to working properly.

Googling Raymarine digital radar pinouts seems to indicate everytime someone asks about that on the Raymarine Tech forum they basically refuse to answer the question.

I did get a new ethernet cable, I even bought a tester for same. Didn't help...same deal...radar now gets data but everytime it starts get "Antenna not rotating" error. Except sometimes it actually does rotate....I rushed up the the flybridge once and saw it rotating for probably 8 seconds...even got a little radar image data on the screen once....then it stopped rotating and I got the same "Antenna not rotating" error again. Driving me nuts.

RE the other member mentioning voltage...I thought about that...I checked the voltage converter output as the antenna was briefly rotating and got 41 volt reading.....what it should be. Stayed at that voltage for a while even after rotation stopped, before going into sleep mode.

*http://www.westmarine.com/buy/raymar...FVQkgQod3yENrg
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Old 10-25-2015, 02:42 AM   #23
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Post no. 6 at below link is interesting..... so perhaps that is indeed the problem with direct plug to the MFD.....gotta have that crossover coupler..sheesh, what a PITA...


Raymarine seatalk2 cables - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:38 PM   #24
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I concur with your findings, it appears you would require this crossover which takes the place of the network switch in revising the cat5 pin-out arrangement. Probably not worth buying the crossover just for a test, nonetheless others have reported success using an off the shelf network switch in place of Rays network switch or SR6. If true, this accomplishes the same thing and would be a very cheap easy test to narrow down where the problem is.

Points:
-My info was wrong. Based on your info, Ray Cat5 cables and generic cat5 cables "are in fact the same", except for the waterproof plug end and should be electrically interchangeable. Ray essentially confirmed this by telling you to try one between the SR6 & radar pedestal.
-The fact that a crossover is required where an installation is not using a network switch or SR6 confirms that your SR6 is indeed also a crossover.
-The Ray crossover is wired essentially the same as a standard ethernet "crossover cable" and would/should work in place of their crossover.

While it is largely unimportant, I would be curious to know which requires the pin-out change, the MFD or pedestal?

It would also be simple & quick to make a crossover, just cut the male and female end off an old cat5 & splice them back together according to the diagram in your link.
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Old 10-25-2015, 04:37 PM   #25
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I know what you're going thru. When I bought my boat as 3rd owner, everything was Raymarine. MFDs were E 120 and E 80. I suffered one gremlin after another. Spent hours on the phone with their tech support, hours holding with obnoxious music for tech support, many $$ paid to more than one electronics tech to come to the boat and check things out. Never got it to work right. Finally got so disgusted that I ripped out the whole stinking mess and bought a complete suite of Garmin electronics; MFDs, radar, sonar, autopilot. I've been very happy with Garmin. And, BTW, their tech support picks up the phone virtually immediately, USA based and efficient. This is just another data point for you. Good luck,
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:48 AM   #26
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While it is largely unimportant, I would be curious to know which requires the pin-out change, the MFD or pedestal?
MFD. Internal pedestal cable wires correspond to standard CAT5 cable. It is interesting that the external radar pedestal receptical has 4 data pins and these 4 pins correspond exactly to the same 4 wires that are typically crossed over... 1,2,3 and 6.

I know this as I did continuity test* between the 8 contacts of the ethernet plug and those 4 pins just to be sure there was no problem with the internal cable. I took notes of which ethernet plug corresponded to which pin on the pedestal. Ethernet terminals 4,5,7,8 are not used.

Re crossover couplers....you are probably right that the crossoever that Raymarine wants seems to be standard protocol, such that any cheap plastic crossover should work for test purposes. I went to Staples yesterday to get some office supplies and while there looked at their ethernet stuff. To my annoyance, they had crossover patch cables and a straight thru coupler, but no crossover coupler. I could buy both of course and make up something but that would cost even more than the official Raymarine crossover.

Going to pick up a repaired office computer today and hope the computer repair shop has a crossover coupler. The kicker is that I probably have one already from some past auction cache of commercial electronic stuff but would take hours of looking to find something that may or may not exist, so forget that.

===============================

* As an aside, as my multimeter probes were not sharp enough to get between each ethernet contact, I used a small pocket knife with alligator cord connected from knife blade to the multimeter probe, such that the knife point served as a sort of probe.... a nice alternative to driving 32 mile round trip to my shop to get some sharper probes...or sanding/grinding an existing probe tip
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:19 AM   #27
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Just occured to me the crossover might actually occur in the cable from the SR6 Seatalk to the MFD rather than in the Seatalk itself ! I only mention this because if that were the case I could actually use that straight line coupler from Staples to connect my long CAT5 cable to the Seatalk to MFD cable !
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:41 PM   #28
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I don't think so, as a crossover coupler is required only if you eliminate the SR6 network switch. A cross over cable would negate the need for a coupler.

You may not have a crossover in your storage but very likely have an old network switch. You seem hesitant to try this, is it more involved than I envision or possibly worried it may blow something? If the latter, I note by the info/drawings you found that there is no instance in the crossover vs straight-thru pin outs that cross grounds with power wires so it "should" be safe. (should being the key word there, I am no expert just throwing out ideas)
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Old 10-26-2015, 03:31 PM   #29
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I don't think so, as a crossover coupler is required only if you eliminate the SR6 network switch. A cross over cable would negate the need for a coupler.

You may not have a crossover in your storage but very likely have an old network switch. You seem hesitant to try this, is it more involved than I envision or possibly worried it may blow something? If the latter, I note by the info/drawings you found that there is no instance in the crossover vs straight-thru pin outs that cross grounds with power wires so it "should" be safe. (should being the key word there, I am no expert just throwing out ideas)
No, not hesitate....chomping at the bit in fact...but it's raining for the next few days and don't want to reopen the radar pedestal in the rain, plus have to leave for a trade show.

As it turns out, our local computer repair place had both types of RJ45 couplers... straight and crossover (crossover one even has a wiring diagram on top to confirm what is crossed..perfect).... cheap... so I bought one of each to have all bases covered. But may be Thursday before I get back to it.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:26 PM   #30
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On Saturday I connected the radar directly from the core electronics to both E120W MFD's (one at a time of course). The bizarre thing is that it did help to do it that way, in fact on one attempt the radar worked for an HOUR.

(not the first attempt, mind you....otherwise I would have proclaimed it "fixed" at last...but I knew eventually it would fail again from previous efforts where it ran perhaps 10 minutes or less...was just amazed it worked fine for an hour before restorting back to bad as ever)

But alas, in the end, it resorted back to "Antenna not rotating" error happening within seconds of pressing "TX".

Raymarine tech now thinks heading flash sensor or gear box is on the way out. Only way to know and fix is send it BACK to Raymarine AGAIN...but this time send the entire 50 lbs of pedestal, not just the core.

A summary so far shows at least 3 different problems-

1. Broken data wire caused original "Data not Found" issue
2. Bad no. 1 port at SeaTalk may also have contributed to "Data not Found"
3. Bad something else causing "Antenna not rotating" issue

And this on a system only 4 years old with radar used probably 2 or 3 hours at the most and pristine inside the pedestal...zero corrosion. Amazing.

=================

As an aside, it actually didn't make any difference on the straight versus crossover coupler. I bought both and used both....made no difference !
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:00 PM   #31
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Just a followup that in the end my problem was related to apparent breaks in both the data and power aspects of the original cable. This, in spite of Raymarine techs telling me via the symptoms that almost certainly was NOT the issue and my own ohmeter tests between the beginning and end of the power cable showed excellent continuity !

I recently installed a new cable (major PITA due to the routing, overkill numbers of wire ties, tight spaces to get in,etc) and now, finally, the radar works properly every time.

Since I used the old cable as sentinel to pull the new cable I was able to get a good look at all of it and damned if I see a thing wrong with it physically. Quite the mystery, but somewhere in the cable, there must have been a manufacturing defect that took a while to show up.

The Raymarine techs, one in particular, were very nice folks however, and quick to check the unit out when sent in (twice !)...no complaints there.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:52 PM   #32
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Cable problems are the most difficult to troubleshoot and sometimes defy logic. What shows good in a static test with a volt/ohm meter does not work when you actually try to use it. One technique we use in the field when we are troubleshooting a suspected cable problem is to have a set of eyeballs on a display while someone shakes everything from one end of the cable to the other. When you consider the data signals from the radar to the MFD are based on two voltage states, when one or both of those states is operating close to the lower voltage limit, a small increase in resistance could turn a 1 into a 0 or vice versa and all of a sudden you have no data, or the logic says the antenna is not turning.

Glad it is solved. File this in, if everything else checks good it is probably the cable. Murphy is alive and well, the repair that takes the longest will fix the problem.

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Old 01-04-2016, 04:37 PM   #33
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I've seen this with electronics enough that I am always suspect of it being the possibility. Now when it happens with an HDMI cable it's very easy to switch and check. Not so in your situation.
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