200 perkins Diesel , which battery is best

[Cooper]

Good evening , starting battery question . I have a 34 main ship 200 perkins . I'm not new to Diesels or batteries , just this engine . Have always used big 8 d's . But seen discussions here about 31 's and also two 6 's to make the 12 because easier to move than the 8 d's . This will be a cranking battery only , any recommendations ?

 

[Datenight]

Cooper,

If the engine is a 6-354 a group 31 will do it no problem. I replaced an 8-D with the 31 on the old boat with the 6-354.

On our NP39 I just replaced the 8-D with a group 31 and the 230 hp Cummins starts instantly.

Rob

 

[Cooper]

Thank you sir, and yes it is a 6.354. Thought that was what I read on here some where

 

[john61ct]

Stick with what you know, and likely cheaper unless you actually need the lighter weight.

6V more likely to be deep cycle, need more AH to get the CCA up there.

If you want AGM go Northstar or Odyssey G31.

Odyssey PC-2150M is actually great for both use cases, a rare example, could also use for a small House bank and then all your batts are interchangeable!

 

[FlyWright]

Stick with what you know, and likely cheaper unless you actually need the lighter weight.

6V more likely to be deep cycle, need more AH to get the CCA up there.

If you want AGM go Northstar or Odyssey G31.

Odyssey PC-2150M is actually great for both use cases, a rare example, could also use for a small House bank and then all your batts are interchangeable!

Bad info here, IMO. No problem starting with a deep cycle. Most 8Ds I've seen were deep cycle. Folks have done it successfully for years.

I have twin Perkins 4.236s and they both get started back-to-back with a single G31. Never an issue. A GC pair would be much more capable than a single G31.

john61ct, do you have any boating or big engine experience.

 

[john61ct]

The only 8Ds in the NA market that are true deep cycle (my def 800+ cycles @ 50% DoD) are made by Dyno and Rolls.

But you are correct in that given enough AH capacity, CCA is not a problem.

But why pay more for the thick plate construction and higher storage capacity if deep cycling is not needed?

 

[Gabe n Em]

We have 8ds starting our 6.354s. I do plan to switch to a house bank of 6vs and one or two 31s for starting when the time comes

 

[DavidM]

I will add my advice and give you the reason why so you can decide among the conflicting info above.

If we are talking about flooded cell lead acid batteries then:

Starting batteries have thinner plates so that they can provide more cranking amps. That is what you want to start the engine. But thin plates don't last long in deep cycle service so true deep cycle batteries have thick plates, more room in the bottom for sulfate accumulation and filler caps so you can add electrolyte.

For AGMs there is little, maybe no difference in construction between starting and deep cycle batteries.

A good Group 31 has a CCA rating of about 1,000; 8Ds about 1,400. But a Group 31 will start your Perkins just fine.

So if you want all of the batteries on your boat to be the same, then AGMs will let that happen, one for starting and 1,2.... for house use. But they cost about 3 times more than FLAs.

David

 

[Ski in NC]

No fan of 8D's here. I investigated a hydrogen explosion on a cruise boat where there was a bank of 8D's for the thruster. A cell shorted out and remaining cells over charged and cooked dry. One battery exploded, the top come completely off, then H2 in the compartement ignited and it blew the deck off the hull joint.

OK, that is nothing that condemns the 8D as any batt could do that.

What was remarkable was what I saw inside the now opened-up 8D. The cells filled only like 2/3d's of the available space in the compartment. Big box but not that much battery. Might explain why an 8D is about twice the size of grp 31 yet only about 50% more CCA.

There may be some 8D's out there that are "honest", but I think that would be reflected in the CCA and AH ratings.

I never liked lugging those things around.

I start my 8.3 liter engine with a single grp 31, so a 6.354 (5.8 liter) should crank just fine. You do want some redundancy by being able to parallel to another source.

 

[sunchaser]

A few early AM musings. First, the OP has successfully been starting his 6 cylinder engine for decades with existing cable runs and an 8 D. Second, changing to a smaller battery is an economic decision, not technical. Third, how is access for yarding in an 8 D vs a 31?

Note, I have an 8 D for starting a genset. Why do something this silly? Because I like ballast, the battery box is there, the first one (Chinese to boot!) went for 8 years so I finally just threw it away and lastly it matches the 8 Ds used for 6 cylinder main engine starting.

There are so many ways ----

 

[Deckape]

Have twin Perkins and use a 4D for each. Soild , same footprint and not as heavy as a 8D.

 

[Tom.B]

As you can tell, there is no perfect solution. The real takeaway here is that any battery rated as a 12v start battery will start a well-maintained Perkins. Some people believe bigger is better, but in our old boat with a 6.354, we used a Group 27.

Here is the thing though. You need to use what is right for the current configuration of your rig. The best piece of advice I was given was that deep cycle batteries can easily start a motor, but no starter battery can function as a deep cycle. Starters drain very little from batteries, so it is smart to have your starter bank (or single battery in this case) be your backup house bank. So unless you pay nearly $1000 for an 8D for a floor polisher battery, it is NOT a true deep cycle. Neither are 4Ds. Have people been using 8Ds for house banks successfully for years? Yes, but they are really wasting money and not getting the performance per dollar they could. I won’t fault them for it.

The bottom line is that you would be smarter to get a pair of good Johnson Controls build dual-purpose Group 27 or 31 batteries. It will give you a ton of CCAs and provide an adequate backup house bank. But like I said, the best solution will be specific to your situation. You may not want to redo a bunch of cabling or have the space to make these kinds of changes. That is up to you.

Good luck.

 

[FF]

"But why pay more for the thick plate construction and higher storage capacity if deep cycling is not needed?"

Non wrench turning folks may have to start an engine that lost fuel , and repeated cranking is their only hope.

 

[john61ct]

Carry a pocket jumpstarter powerpack, kept charged in the glovebox.

Multi-function, backup from flattened batt, cheaper to boot.

___
I actually like the idea of one big bank of true deep cycles like the Odysseys above.

Just put part of the bank on an adjustable LVD, call that Reserve, the rest call Main.

As long as SoC is maintained above the isolator cutoff, get all the extra capacity from Peukert of one large bank, keep DoD shallower for longer life, stop carrying so much dead lead.

The cranking function can easily switch between Main and Reserve with a A/B batt switch. Charge sources wired to Main.

And keep the powerpack for belt & suspenders.

Dedicated Starter batts becomes an obsolete wasteful idea.

Just food for thought. . .

 

[sunchaser]

John61

Yes, when internet surfing and chasing links there are all sorts of options. But most of us are dealing with real world boat applications that are proven, simple, available and cost effective. Please inform as to what starting and house bank setup resides in your vessel.

 

[CaptTom]

Real world: I have a pair of 6.354 turbo's. Start one with a pair of Group 31's, the other with two pair of 6V GC batteries. All FLA. No problems ever.

 

[sunchaser]

Real world: I have a pair of 6.354 turbo's. Start one with a pair of Group 31's, the other with two pair of 6V GC batteries. All FLA. No problems ever.

Nothing beats the sound of a diesel starting up every time. After that keeping the coffee warm and beer cold from charged up batteries while at anchor. Then yada yada. Good job.

 

[FlyWright]

John61

Yes, when internet surfing and chasing links there are all sorts of options. But most of us are dealing with real world boat applications that are proven, simple, available and cost effective. Please inform as to what starting and house bank setup resides in your vessel.

Nothing beats the sound of a diesel starting up every time. After that keeping the coffee warm and beer cold from charged up batteries while at anchor. Then yada yada. Good job.

Yes, well said. It's the sharing of real world experience and real world solutions that helps real folks with real world problems...not hypothetical, google search results posted by a wannabe from the basement of his mother's home.

There's a huge difference.

 

[Brooksie]

I have a T6.354 in my lobster boat cruiser which lives on a mooring, is never plugged in dockside, and in the water till December in New England. I also have a small refrig.
I get along nicely with 2 group 29 deep cycle (slightly smaller than 31's)
I have an ACR which automatically parallels batteries while running. I have had great luck with WalMart deep cycles and would never go back to paying for marine, premium, or 8D batteries.
LED lights, especially anchor light, are a big help in reducing load as is replacement of old Norcold with smaller modern unit with extra 6" of foam all around.

 

[boathealer]

....... a wannabe from the basement of his mother's home.

Hey - cut it out!! It's nice - warm and cozy down here.....

 

[C lectric]

Just my opinion but there is absolutely no way I would have only one bank supplying both the house and the engine starting functions, no matter how large.

If that one bank goes haywire for any reason you could be stranded.

We winter boated, freezing weather, and we often are in isolated areas. That engine, short of a major mechanical failure, has to start and the battery is your only way of doing it unless you have a small hand crank engine.

It may depend upon where you boat and when you boat. It may depend upon whether of not you have a generator and if that is your ace in the hole then you had better be darn sure the gen. is operable at all times including its own dedicated, isolated battery.

 

[Insequent]

I run Odyssey PC 1800 FT AGM's. Two for start and six for house. They are both cranking (1300 CCA) and deep cycle (213Ah each) due to the 'Thin Plate Pure Lead' construction technology. I can parallel as required and have Blue Seas ACR's and RBS to do it automatically or manually.

They are great, and very manageable in terms of weight at 60kg. But have a different form factor being narrow and tallish, so for retrofitting may or may not fit your space.

And yes, being able to isolate start from house is essential.

 

[catalinajack]

We own a Defever 44. No starting batteries except for the generators. It has two separate house banks of four 6V golf car batteries. As far as I know, many, if not most, Defevers are set this way. They start the Lehman 120s just fine. I see no reason to have separate starting batteries. In a pinch, I can use the generator start batteries (2 Group 27s) to start the mains.

 

[koliver]

CC:
I have a pair of 200, 6 cyl Volvo diesels and a 4kw Westerbeke genset.
I have kept to the same starting battery that was in this boat in 1994, when I bought her. My Start battery is a 4D, so smaller than your 8D, by 15 to 20% in both CCA and weight. My last replacement was after solid service for 12 years.
My engines always start right up, so the battery doesn't get hard usage, and I suspect your usage will be the same.

 

[sunchaser]

We own a Defever 44. No starting batteries except for the generators. It has two separate house banks of four 6V golf car batteries. As far as I know, many, if not most, Defevers are set this way. .

Our 2003 DeFever is not set up as yours. Ours is a more "traditional" setup with 8 GCs (Trojans) for house, 2 batteries (8 Ds) for mains and 1 battery (8D) for genset.

I really thought about Lithionics for house last month but stuck with new Trojans as the existing (much cheaper) layout and system does fine as is.

 

[JDCAVE]

I use a pair of Group 24’s, in parallel to start my Lehman 135. Lots of cranking amp available. The PO had a pair of T105’s in series, that he combined with the house bank when charging. I charge the 24’s separately from the house bank.

 

[JDCAVE]

Dedicated Starter batts becomes an obsolete wasteful idea.

Just food for thought. . .

Nope. I’d never be without a starter bank at 100% SOC. Redundancy and is important for travelling in the isolated regions we favour.

Jim

 

[BruceK]

Carry a pocket jumpstarter powerpack, kept charged in the glovebox..........
The cranking function can easily switch between Main and Reserve with a A/B batt switch. Charge sources wired to Main.

And keep the powerpack for belt & suspenders.

Dedicated Starter batts becomes an obsolete wasteful idea.

Just food for thought. . .

Never heard a compartment on a boat described as a "glovebox". Could that be a cut and paste from an automotive article or advert?
Back up, when all else fails, is a reliable genset with a dedicated and maintained battery, and a good battery charger.
Starting a cold 6.2L diesel with a "pocket jumpstarter powerpack",wherever it is kept, is a huge ask.

 

[john61ct]

There are bigger ones used for OTR trucks, size of a VHS tape or so, call it coat pocket sized.

 

[BruceK]

There are bigger ones used for OTR trucks, size of a VHS tape or so, call it coat pocket sized.

Best we stick with boats. Have you used the device to start a boat?