Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-20-2014, 07:44 PM   #21
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
Don't guess!
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2014, 07:46 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Lutarious's Avatar
 
City: Oakland,Ca
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Burn rate probably a good bit lower than 5gph at 7.5kts. Probably more like 3gph, but guessing.
That would be nice.
__________________

Lutarious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2014, 10:37 PM   #23
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,360
Burn rate in the open ocean is higher than the protected waters of the San Juan islands. Then there are ocean currents and wind. Being a sailor you have a pretty handle on this I'd guess.

BTW, are your fuel tanks calibrated? What is full fuel load and how much can be pulled from each tank before they suck air?

Sounds like fun, enjoy the trip and good luck.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 01:01 AM   #24
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Yikes 250 gallons in a 44' foot twin diesel trawler?? Aren't those Volvos like 165 hp? I burn 7 gph at 10 k with twin 135 hp and carry 500 gal. Figuring 5 gph @ 7.5 k should give you a reasonable fuel buffer. But like others have said confirm those numbers before you go.

That's really a light fuel load, but maybe it was only used in Puget Sound!! I would have expected 350 gallons minimum and something closer to 500 gallons.

How many tanks total?
__________________
Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
Edelweiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 08:56 AM   #25
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
Quote:
Burn rate in the open ocean is higher than the protected waters of the San Juan islands. Then there are ocean currents and wind.
On this trip, he's going "downhill" with both wind and current. Personally, rather than try to calculate what that would add, range wise, I'd ignore it and to the extent it helped, that goes into padding the reserve allowance.

I somehow didn't pick up on the 250 gallons; "yikes" x2 ! If that is really true, make double sure the tank and fuel are clean, bring plenty of spare primary and secondary filters, and learn how to change them.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 10:53 AM   #26
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
On this trip, he's going "downhill" with both wind and current. Personally, rather than try to calculate what that would add, range wise, I'd ignore it and to the extent it helped, that goes into padding the reserve allowance.

I somehow didn't pick up on the 250 gallons; "yikes" x2 ! If that is really true, make double sure the tank and fuel are clean, bring plenty of spare primary and secondary filters, and learn how to change them.
If it's two tanks, then I'd run one only and see how many gallons and hours I got out of it, preferably using a flow meter of some sort. If it's only one tank that I have limited knowledge of it's condition then I'd get a small bladder to take with me on the first trip.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 11:24 AM   #27
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,952
Guys....

He has 250 gallons of fuel.

We're talking about the Pacific Coast, not some ocean crossing here.

A 44' aft cabin boat like that is going to get something over 1.5NMPG at hull speed and I'm VERY conservative with that number. Fuel range just is not a real issue here.

With a 44' aft cabin boat, as an experienced sailor he's probably going to be harbor hopping anyway.

All he needs to do is plan his departure times from harbor A to arrive during daylight hours and favorable bar conditions at harbor B.

These are simple one day runs. He might need to leave before dawn sometimes to catch favorable bar conditions at his origination and destination harbors, but leaving a semi unfamiliar harbor pre-dawn is a whole lot funner than pulling into a totally unfamiliar harbor at night.

After ONE fuel up he will KNOW his fuel burn, and his range and can then make plans as to where to purchase fuel.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 12:13 PM   #28
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
Kevin, I think we are violently agreeing with each other.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 12:13 PM   #29
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Exactly Kevin, Lutarious send a private message to a member named Alaskan Sea Duction. He made the uphill trip from SF Bay up to PNW last year in an almost identical boat.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 12:45 PM   #30
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
Guys....

He has 250 gallons of fuel.
I don't see the quantity of fuel on that route as being an issue at all. I do see an issue of knowing the quality and usable amount of fuel in his tank or tanks. Hopefully by the time he starts this trip he will know. I think that is always a concern when you purchase a used boat. What is really in there. Dauntless encountered an unpleasant fuel surprise. If this boat encountered the same on their 250 gallons then it would be a problem.

The other thing is just for the OP to learn his true usage. Not theoretical, not a similar boat, but his boat, his engines, his usage.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 12:59 PM   #31
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I don't see the quantity of fuel on that route as being an issue at all. I do see an issue of knowing the quality and usable amount of fuel in his tank or tanks. The other thing is just for the OP to learn his true usage. Not theoretical, not a similar boat, but his boat, his engines, his usage.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 01:18 PM   #32
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I don't see the quantity of fuel on that route as being an issue at all. I do see an issue of knowing the quality and usable amount of fuel in his tank or tanks. Hopefully by the time he starts this trip he will know. I think that is always a concern when you purchase a used boat. What is really in there. Dauntless encountered an unpleasant fuel surprise. If this boat encountered the same on their 250 gallons then it would be a problem.

The other thing is just for the OP to learn his true usage. Not theoretical, not a similar boat, but his boat, his engines, his usage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Yeah you two are sooo right

Heaven forbid I'd actually suggest the op talk to someone who's "been there and done that". Whatever could I had been thinking
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 01:31 PM   #33
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Yeah you two are sooo right

Heaven forbid I'd actually suggest the op talk to someone who's "been there and done that". Whatever could I had been thinking
Agree. . Talking to knowledgeable skippers can be a real advantage. Hopefully he has at least two separate tanks and in an unknown boat, I would second taking a small auxiliary supply of clean fuel just in case there is a fuel issue.
__________________
Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
Edelweiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 01:42 PM   #34
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,882
Must know how to change filters and reprime at sea. Each engine is different in what is required. Recovering from clogged filters or an air loaded fuel system is not fun while in the rough stuff dippin' rails with crap rolling all over the place and engine room hot as blazes. But you need to know how to do it.

That is more of a concern than actually running out of fuel.

Need: Filters. Small jug of fuel. 5gal bucket. Wrenches for bleed screws and inj lines. Knowledge of how to reprime the particular engine.

A good exercise is to pop the top on the racor with engine idling dockside. Let it run til it stalls. Then reprime it.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 01:51 PM   #35
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Yeah you two are sooo right

Heaven forbid I'd actually suggest the op talk to someone who's "been there and done that". Whatever could I had been thinking
We're not suggesting he not talk to the one you suggested. He should. Only suggesting he can't rely his fuel usage being the same as anyone else's.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 02:24 PM   #36
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I don't see the quantity of fuel on that route as being an issue at all. I do see an issue of knowing the quality and usable amount of fuel in his tank or tanks. Hopefully by the time he starts this trip he will know. I think that is always a concern when you purchase a used boat. What is really in there. Dauntless encountered an unpleasant fuel surprise. If this boat encountered the same on their 250 gallons then it would be a problem.

The other thing is just for the OP to learn his true usage. Not theoretical, not a similar boat, but his boat, his engines, his usage.
Is it doable, absolutely positively! Many much smaller boats with much less range have made the trip. But it takes away some flexibility and safety margin. For instance, if one was counting on getting into a particular harbor and they close the bar, or if you simply want to skip a harbor and perhaps do an overnight, or you have a need to crank up the speed (weather, on board illness, etc) and thus dramatically increase consumption.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 03:27 PM   #37
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Yeah you two are sooo right

Heaven forbid I'd actually suggest the op talk to someone who's "been there and done that". Whatever could I had been thinking
Your suggestion to talk to Alaska Seduction was spot on. Don 't forget though many of us have sailed and cruised a mile or two on the west coast long before TF existed. The suggestion to know true fuel capacity, burn rate, general maintenance procedures etc apply to any of us going offshore. Boating 101 I would think.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 05:22 PM   #38
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
I agree with you Tom until it gets to the "never leave the dock unless you do it my way approach" that is often prevalent on forums. People have harbor hopped the west coast quite successfully and regularly for decades, patiently waiting weather and bar crossings when needed. Delivery skippers jump on unknown client boats(albeit with more powerboat experience) routinely delivering them successfully as well.

The idea of drawing down tanks to verify how much usable fuel you have makes total sense if crossing to Hawaii but makes little sense going a couple hundred miles max between safe harbors. I wonder how many delivery skippers do that prior to leaving port? Opening up the tanks and inspecting them, or better still having them cleaned on a new to you boat is wise but drawing them down to see how much fuel can be scavenged? Really? Unless I missed something in this thread it sounds like he has at least 300-400 miles of fuel unless he runs it on the pins.

Assuming the boat isn't a candidate to be turned into an artificial reef it will likely be a safe and fun trip down the coast. No different than hundreds of others every year. That and the fact the OP did mention he is a pro captain on sailboats, kinda leads me to believe he didn't just step out of the onion fields and likely has a commensurate amount of common sense and seamanship skills. Probably explains why he was interested in good fuel stops to begin with as sailors typically have no need to know that info. If he doesn't like his consumption numbers I'm quite certain he will pull in and top off at the next harbor. He may have to jog a bit before crossing the bar but it's not likely his first time doing that either if he is a pro blow boat captain.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 05:53 PM   #39
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
I agree with you Tom until it gets to the "never leave the dock unless you do it my way approach" that is often prevalent on forums. People have harbor hopped the west coast quite successfully and regularly for decades, patiently waiting weather and bar crossings when needed. Delivery skippers jump on unknown client boats(albeit with more powerboat experience) routinely delivering them successfully as well.

The idea of drawing down tanks to verify how much usable fuel you have makes total sense if crossing to Hawaii but makes little sense going a couple hundred miles max between safe harbors. I wonder how many delivery skippers do that prior to leaving port? Opening up the tanks and inspecting them, or better still having them cleaned on a new to you boat is wise but drawing them down to see how much fuel can be scavenged? Really? Unless I missed something in this thread it sounds like he has at least 300-400 miles of fuel unless he runs it on the pins.

Assuming the boat isn't a candidate to be turned into an artificial reef it will likely be a safe and fun trip down the coast. No different than hundreds of others every year. That and the fact the OP did mention he is a pro captain on sailboats, kinda leads me to believe he didn't just step out of the onion fields and likely has a commensurate amount of common sense and seamanship skills. Probably explains why he was interested in good fuel stops to begin with as sailors typically have no need to know that info. If he doesn't like his consumption numbers I'm quite certain he will pull in and top off at the next harbor. He may have to jog a bit before crossing the bar but it's not likely his first time doing that either if he is a pro blow boat captain.
A new to the owner boat, unfamiliar to the captain, which has not had these things checked out, yes a delivery captain will check things out before heading offshore. Heck, they do it for ICW trips for that matter. I don't know where the drawing down the tanks part comes from, but certainly a fairly aggressive draw down is needed to learn what the fuel burn really is.

I have total respect for the OP, he is asking the right questions and has the right attitude. And he understand the implications of piloting a boat that is purely reliant on fuel, no sails. I once helped a very experienced guy take a little 25' Bayliner Ciera (nice little boat) single engine gas I/O, from Sausalito to Eureka. Just because he wanted to; would have been safer and quicker cheaper to put it on its trailer and motor it up. Waited a few weeks for perfect weather, brought extra gas.. though theoretically we plenty had of range, but going uphill, he knew exactly what the boat could do and what condition it was in. Fun trip, caught a couple of nice fish while we were at it. But again the guy, an experienced pan Pacific sailor, knew the boat's condition and performance precisely.

What excuse is there for not doing so?
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2014, 12:59 PM   #40
Guru
 
Scary's Avatar
 
City: Walnut Grove Ca
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cary'D Away
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 884
Lonely trip

Something I would look at if is the condition of your steering hoses and check your hydraulic steering tank. Should have 30-40 psi on gauge. I know of more than one boat that has lost steering on the trip down. Your steering gear will get a workout on this trip. Spares besides fuel filters, should include a small container of diesel for priming filters, water pump impellers, emergency tape, and several quarts of hydraulic fluid, or atf.
__________________

Scary is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012