Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-28-2012, 11:41 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Capn Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 418
Diesel fuel

Out of curiosity, what do other trawler forum members pump for diesel fuel in your area? Specifically are you buying Off Road (red dyed fuel) or Road fuel (clear) with road tax added. Im sure your gubernor really appreciates that. Anybody burning bio diesel? I have not found Off Road locally on the water, but usually get a group of thirsty boats together and have the local Ag diesel dealer deliver. They have no problem with that when they can sell 800 to 1000 gallons. Saves about 30 cents a gallon in tax. When I was on Kentucky Lake I never found anything but Off Road.
__________________
Advertisement

Capn Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 11:56 PM   #2
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,144
All the diesel they sell in the marina is off road diesel, here anyway. They still have there mark up though. I worked out a deal with the local coop of sort to deliver 300 gallons when the time is right. They say if you pump the gas with road tax added you can get a refund of the tax. I don't know but that's what I heard.
__________________

swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 06:09 AM   #3
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,882
Don't think I have ever have seen regular diesel at a marina...It's ALWAYS off road. If it's not..I'd be contacting the state and/or making sure I wasn't paying road taxes on it

But like I've said...never have seen it along the Atlantic seaboard....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 10:12 AM   #4
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Craig View Post
Out of curiosity, what do other trawler forum members pump for diesel fuel in your area? Specifically are you buying Off Road (red dyed fuel) or Road fuel (clear) with road tax added. Im sure your gubernor really appreciates that. .
"gubernor"?

Everytime I've bought diesel fuel at a marina it has been non-taxed "off road", dyed fuel. I will say though, from recent personal experience, Florida has begun adding sales tax at 7% on diesel fuel sold to recreational boaters. It's usually added to the pump price so for every dollar you see on the pump, you are charged an extra seven cents.

Quote:
Anybody burning bio diesel?
I'll wait for others to try it first.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 10:43 AM   #5
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
The question is not off road or on, but what mixture. Louw sulfer, ultta low sulfur, bio diesel. Many of the marinas are pumping ultra low. During the winter I hand carry 20 gallons per week on road ultra low diesel. The prise is about the same. however the ultra low burns a lot cleaner in the Webasto.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 10:56 AM   #6
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 800
I've seen that added tax as well. I'm not sure if it is passed down from the state or just marinas adding 7% and calling it a tax.

I asked our local marina about it, and he said the "tax free is only for commercial guys, prove to me you are commercial and I won't charge you the tax." I showed him my captain's license, and the commercial regitration from my guide boat and he cut me the deal. Not sure if it is legal, but I didn't want to hassle him as I got what I wanted.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:48 PM   #7
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post
I've seen that added tax as well. I'm not sure if it is passed down from the state or just marinas adding 7% and calling it a tax.

I asked our local marina about it, and he said the "tax free is only for commercial guys, prove to me you are commercial and I won't charge you the tax." I showed him my captain's license, and the commercial regitration from my guide boat and he cut me the deal. Not sure if it is legal, but I didn't want to hassle him as I got what I wanted.
there are taxes on marine fuel...just not the "highway tax"...if charging you turn his butt in...
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:50 PM   #8
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
The question is not off road or on, but what mixture. Louw sulfer, ultta low sulfur, bio diesel. Many of the marinas are pumping ultra low. During the winter I hand carry 20 gallons per week on road ultra low diesel. The prise is about the same. however the ultra low burns a lot cleaner in the Webasto.
off the net...and I haven't seen anything but ULSD.....

Check the Label

As of December 1, 2010, all diesel fuel sold in the U.S. must be ULSD, and pumps dispensing ULSD must be labeled as such (except in California). Labels similar to those shown here can be found on the upper two-thirds of the pump.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:11 PM   #9
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Craig View Post
Out of curiosity, what do other trawler forum members pump for diesel fuel in your area? Specifically are you buying Off Road (red dyed fuel) or Road fuel (clear) with road tax added.
The diesel fuel sold in our marina (and I suspect at all the marine fuel dealers in our area) is red-dyed, no-road-tax fuel. There is a sales tax on the sale, of course.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:01 PM   #10
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
"gubernor"?

Everytime I've bought diesel fuel at a marina it has been non-taxed "off road", dyed fuel. I will say though, from recent personal experience, Florida has begun adding sales tax at 7% on diesel fuel sold to recreational boaters. It's usually added to the pump price so for every dollar you see on the pump, you are charged an extra seven cents.



I'll wait for others to try it first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
there are taxes on marine fuel...just not the "highway tax"...if charging you turn his butt in...
It's pretty unclear down here, every marina is different, some include taxes in the cost of the fuel, others add them in later. No one ever says, "this is sales tax" or "this is the road tax" they just add on taxes. Most marinas in Florida charge more or about the same for red dyed diesel as you would pay for "clear" diesel in gas station.

Some stations around here sell off road diesel, it is generally 10 to 20 cents a gallon cheaper than their clear diesel and usually cheaper than the red diesel in a marina. My belief is that marinas are making more margin, though they also have higher overall costs than a gas station and do less volume. I think they imply to boaters that more of that extra margin is taxes than is actually the case.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:55 PM   #11
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
[QUOTE=psneeld;88727] As of December 1, 2010, all diesel fuel sold in the U.S. must be ULSD ...QUOTE]

You might want to take a look at the EPA regs for Non-NEMA areas, excluding California and Alaska. Those areas have until October 2014 to implement ULSD only use.

And while you are researching the issue, look at the specs for "marine diesel" as opposed to the other flavors ... there is at least one very important specification other than sulfur content that may be significantly different and be of great interest to your insurance company.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 05:27 PM   #12
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post
It's pretty unclear down here, every marina is different, some include taxes in the cost of the fuel, others add them in later. No one ever says, "this is sales tax" or "this is the road tax" they just add on taxes. .
In the past three weeks, I purchased diesel fuel in two Florida marinas. At both it was posted on the pump that the pump price does not include the 7% state sales tax. Diesel fuel purchased at Georgia marinas was charged at the price posted on the pump with no additional tax. South Carolina was the same the last time I purchased diesel fuel there (last fall).

It's confusing if you are tracking or comparing the price of fuel, but it's not at all dishonest.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 09:00 PM   #13
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,882
[QUOTE=RickB;88734]
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
As of December 1, 2010, all diesel fuel sold in the U.S. must be ULSD ...QUOTE]

You might want to take a look at the EPA regs for Non-NEMA areas, excluding California and Alaska. Those areas have until October 2014 to implement ULSD only use.

And while you are researching the issue, look at the specs for "marine diesel" as opposed to the other flavors ... there is at least one very important specification other than sulfur content that may be significantly different and be of great interest to your insurance company.
Right from an EPA white paper..

II. Summary of Important Findings


&
The marine fuels used in recreational marine operations are primarily off-highway 2-D and onhighway

2-D. The marine fuels used in commercial marine operations are primarily distillates
intermediate and residual oil. Thus, in this study to compare sulfur and fuel use information for
recreational and commercial purposes, we compared data for off-highway 2-D and on-highway 2-D
with distillates, intermediate and residual oil.
&


The marine fuel industry uses specific names for distillate, intermediate and residual fuels.

Marine diesel fuel is not a general term, but refers specifically to an intermediate type fuel.
&


Diesel fuel used for recreational purposes generally has lower sulfur than diesel fuel used for

commercial purposes.
&


Diesel fuel used for recreational purposes is a small fraction of the diesel fuel used for

commercial marine purposes.
&


Fuel testing services, marinas, and refineries provided the wealth of property information on marine

Page 3
August 20, 1999
fuels. Ports had no such property information.
&


In a Northern California marina, No 2 on-highway is used as recreational marine fuel. In other

selected marinas in parts of the country, No 2 off-highway is used. Thus, for recreational marine
fuel, Northern California has much lower sulfur levels than recreational marine fuel in other parts of
the country.
&


Actual sulfur content for residual and intermediate marine fuels (e.g. commercial use) are not
widely available.
In contrast to commercial marine businesses, recreational boat owners have no volume leverage, and less
cost-reduction incentives to arrange for special fuels. With the large overlap in boiling range with other
distillate fuels, the sources of recreational marine fuels are often land-based fuels that can meet or exceed
all specifications of the marine fuel. Therefore, distributors of recreational fuels take what is most
available, which is truck and tractor diesel fuel and home heating fuel. Both of these fuel grades are
given the designation "Number 2" (or No. 2-D diesel) fuel. All marinas, and all fuel suppliers, have
reported that diesel fuel is delivered to marinas by tank truck, and the fuel is the same as provided to
either on-road service stations or off-road supply stations. Some marinas
17, 18 said that their diesel fuel is

dyed red (off-road) and others
19 said that it is "clear" (on-highway diesel).

Bottom line...you don't know what you are getting when you fill up at a local marina...probably EXACTLY what the gas station down the street got and you got it with red dye added.
If you are a big commercial provider...you can be more specific in your specs for your customers...
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 12:20 PM   #14
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
We usually buy fuel from the fuel barges, because they offer the best rates for volume. Last time was in Ft. Lauderdale in May 2011.
We shall fill up again in a few weeks at the floating barge in New Bedford, MA. It fuels the fishing fleet there and prices are usually 10-20 cents better than the onshore New Bedford prices. We usually take on between 500 and 800 gallons. Current prices are about $3.55 to $3.65. Once you move down towards Newport, they tack on about $1.25-$1.50.
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 08:59 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
State Sales Tax is different from Road Tax...... here in Florida they have been 'collecting' sales tax on off-road diesel for over twenty years that I know of.
El Sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 02:01 PM   #16
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Craig View Post
Out of curiosity, what do other trawler forum members pump for diesel fuel in your area? Specifically are you buying Off Road (red dyed fuel) or Road fuel (clear) with road tax added
There are only two retail sources for diesel in Bellingham Bay. The fuel dock in the marina and a truck-based service that sells in larger quantities. The fuel dock sells off-road (red) diesel. There is a sales tax applied to this fuel but no road or other transportation taxes.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 12:39 AM   #17
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,176
California sells red off-road diesel at the marinas with no added sales taxes, fees or other shenanigans. Current price on the water is $3.53/gal.
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 02:03 AM   #18
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
California sells red off-road diesel at the marinas with no added sales taxes, fees or other shenanigans. Current price on the water is $3.53/gal.
Al, all the applicable taxes are included in the per/gallon price.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 02:20 AM   #19
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,176
I agree, Mark. The price on the pump includes any applicable taxes. None are added to the pump price.
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 06:57 AM   #20
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
The huge variety of "spec" fuel that comes out of the pipeline to the local distribution system , and the unknown cleanlyness of the local distributor and the question of marina tanks condition are cause for worry..

We use a Baja Filter (actually a Rybovitch monel unit) to pre filter every drop that gets in out tanks.

The filter on the fuel pump hose is "supposed" to clean up the crud and water , but?

AS there are fuel "standards" that may be different from what engine Mfg thought would be burned 20-50 years ago, the use of additives makes sense.

Stanadine to keep the injectors cleaner and some bug killer is our standard
.Cetane improver does work to cut down the light smoke , but our H series injectors are notorious for light smoke.

The crud has to be taken out of the fuel somewhere , what better than before it goes into the tank?
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012