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Old 06-29-2012, 04:07 PM   #21
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Elhewman,
Forget Uniflites, Tollys and all other faster boats. They just don't have a hull shape suitable for 6 or 7 knots and aren't as seaworthy and don't handle as well either.
There is an Albin 25 (w sail) in Craig. Don't know if it's for sale but it is very seldom (if ever) used and could be for sale. It has looked exactly the same for the last 10 years or so. Call the harbor master and possibly communicate w the owner. I will be back in Thorne Bay in 3 or4 weeks and could assist you.
You say you don't want wood but that could be your best option. Another option is to get down to The Seattle area and expand your shopping scope 100 times. I'm SURE you could find what you want in Puget Sound.
Your quest is not going to be easy so keep all doors open except planing hulls. And don't cave in to a scream'in deal on a planing hull. In time you wo'nt like it.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:51 PM   #22
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Elhewman,
Forget Uniflites, Tollys and all other faster boats. They just don't have a hull shape suitable for 6 or 7 knots and aren't as seaworthy and don't handle as well either.
There is an Albin 25 (w sail) in Craig. Don't know if it's for sale but it is very seldom (if ever) used and could be for sale. It has looked exactly the same for the last 10 years or so. Call the harbor master and possibly communicate w the owner. I will be back in Thorne Bay in 3 or4 weeks and could assist you.
You say you don't want wood but that could be your best option. Another option is to get down to The Seattle area and expand your shopping scope 100 times. I'm SURE you could find what you want in Puget Sound.
Your quest is not going to be easy so keep all doors open except planing hulls. And don't cave in to a scream'in deal on a planing hull. In time you wo'nt like it.
Eric - Good to hear your input again, and, you know I have much respect for your marine, sea, and boat knowledge - - > BUT!

That is a considerably one-sided statement you make... and, IMO some of your premises are wholly incorrect.

Tollycraft and Uniflite were very well built and comfortably laid out... if they were cared for they are still a good, affordable choice. At or just below hull speeds, even with twins, they are relatively economical; of course if getting somewhere quickly becomes paramount Ė they can do that too! Also, their hull and superstructure designs make most models of those two builds fine costal or ICWW cruisers.

With that said, to set the record straight: Many boats with hulls and overall design such as yours are also great craft for many uses. I believe there no need to bad mouth and type of boat... especially when said boats have proven their worth via tens of thousands well built products and the tens of thousands satisfied owners who for decades have raved about their Tollys and Unis quality on many levels. These craft have stood the test of time; thousands of them are continuing to do so in top class condition. I know... I currently own a super nice Tolly, previously owned a great Uni, and am currently looking at possibility of purchasing another great Uniflite sedan for off shore fishing, outside SF Bay... while still keeping our major comfortable tri cabin Tollycraft for cruising deep inside SF Deltaís warm freshwaters for swimming.

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Old 06-30-2012, 03:42 PM   #23
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You might consider these.

They're turning up for sale pretty regularly...usually under 5 grand with trailer. Some come with flybridge and some with outboard motors.

Mine is a Land N Sea, bigger at 28', vs the Sea Camper above at 24'. At 6 mph on the lake, my Chevy 350 regularly shows me 3 mpg.


With tides and current and often wind, sometimes 6 mph can be a losing proposition - that's when the 30 mph potential comes in handy and even staying put is a joy with the air conditioning and all other comforts of home.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:56 PM   #24
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Eye Gods Art I'm NOT Bad mouthing anything at all. The OP is talking "hyper efficient" and planing and semi-planing boats aren't hyper efficient. I read hyper efficient as just about as efficient as one can get w/o going to super light structure and multi-hulls. That means a full displacement hulled boat that goes close to hull speed w 3 or 4hp per ton of displacement. Uniflites and Tollycraft boats are way off the mark there. You can go that fast w 7 to 10hp per ton but that's a lot more power ........ Definitely not "hyper efficient". Uni's and Tolly's aren't going to do that or even come close unless the shape of the bottom is radically changed in the aft end. They just weren't designed to be efficient. Sorry I offended you Art but just think how fast a Uniflite would go w 3 hp per ton.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:44 PM   #25
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Eye Gods Art I'm NOT Bad mouthing anything at all.
Your previous statement: [/QUOTE] Forget Uniflites, Tollys and all other faster boats. They just don't have a hull shape suitable for 6 or 7 knots and aren't as seaworthy and don't handle as well either. [/QUOTE]

How do you define firmly and fully down grading successfully important boat makes on three of their top items and most primary levels? Especially when your three downgrades are notably incorrect... I define it as Bad Mouthing!
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:13 AM   #26
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how fast a Uniflite would go w 3 hp per ton.
Our 34' 21,000 lb (when well loaded) Tolly does between 5.75 and 6 knots while running on one of our 350 cid 255 hp Chevy twins at just over 2000 rpm. You know number calcs - How many hp per ton would you say that equates to??? We get between 2.5 and 2.75 nmpg in this instance.

With both engines running and doing about 7 knots we still get near 2 nmpg. At 16/17 knots 1 nmpg... but we get there quickly

And, at any of those speeds she handles just fine - albeit a bit better while powered by her twins at slow speeds.
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:28 AM   #27
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Our 34' 21,000 lb (when well loaded) Tolly does between 5.75 and 6 knots while running on one of our 350 cid 255 hp Chevy twins at just over 2000 rpm. You know number calcs - How many hp per ton would you say that equates to??? We get between 2.5 and 2.75 nmpg in this instance.
Art, that's not very efficient. The 35-foot, 28,000 lb. Coot does about 6.5 knots running its single 80 h.p. JD 4045DFM70 at 1600 RPM using 1.3 gallons per hours, or about five miles per gallon. Just don't ask it to exceed 7.5 knots, however.
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:57 AM   #28
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Art, that's not very efficient. The 35-foot, 28,000 lb. Coot does about 6.5 knots running its single 80 h.p. JD 4045DFM70 at 1600 RPM using 1.3 gallons per hours, or about five miles per gallon. Just don't ask it to exceed 7.5 knots, however.
Mark - You are correct. But, it also is not really all that inefficient. There
is a trade off for everything... congrats on getting 5 nmpg at 6.5 knots in Coot... that IS considerably efficient; more than most power boats! How many gallons per hour at Cootís top speed of 7.5 knots?
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:01 AM   #29
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How many gallons per hour at Coot’s top speed of 7.5 knots?
Four! With the throttle pushed to the wall (2400 RPM). ... Ouch.
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:20 AM   #30
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Four! With the throttle pushed to the wall (2400 RPM). ... Ouch.
Mark - Looks like our boats just about match in efficiency at 7 to 7.5 knots. Then... mine falls off the mpg-cliff at 16/17 knots! At 16 gph it can get expensive... we like to travel at or below hull speed. But, if we need to get somewhere quickly - heck, what's a few hundred bucks, once in a while!
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:20 AM   #31
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Art, that's not very efficient. The 35-foot, 28,000 lb. Coot does about 6.5 knots running its single 80 h.p. JD 4045DFM70 at 1600 RPM using 1.3 gallons per hours, or about five miles per gallon. Just don't ask it to exceed 7.5 knots, however.
My mind isn't into the math right now and don't have the power curve data on either engine but my best guess is the Coots Deere is putting out maybe 50 HP at 1600 rpm. Art's 350's won't see 255 HP at any less than 5500 rpm. Unless Art's engines have been rebuilt recently I doubt they'd reach rated HP output.

He's maybe 80 HP max on one engine at just over 2000 rpm. Still not nearly as efficient as the Coot, but a significant cost difference between powerplants and vessels too.

Sorry Art. A planing hull can certainly run more efficient at hull speed, but the displacement hull will still win the efficiency battle IMO. Nothing wrong with that though.
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:39 AM   #32
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My mind isn't into the math right now and don't have the power curve data on either engine but my best guess is the Coots Deere is putting out maybe 50 HP at 1600 rpm. Art's 350's won't see 255 HP at any less than 5500 rpm. Unless Art's engines have been rebuilt recently I doubt they'd reach rated HP output.

He's maybe 80 HP max on one engine at just over 2000 rpm. Still not nearly as efficient as the Coot, but a significant cost difference between powerplants and vessels too.

Sorry Art. A planing hull can certainly run more efficient at hull speed, but the displacement hull will still win the efficiency battle IMO. Nothing wrong with that though.
CP - Seems correct in most you say... but... my twins are rated and proped at 4500 rpm for WOT. One was fully rebuilt 350 +/- hours ago and the other had topend rebuild at same time... its bottom tested to be in fine condition, the one needing full rebuild ate a valve!

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Old 07-01-2012, 02:51 AM   #33
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CP - Seems correct in most you say... but... my twins are rated and proped at 4500 rpm for WOT. One was fully rebuilt 350 +/- hours ago and the other had topend rebuild at same time... its bottom tested to be in fine condition, the one needing full rebuild ate a valve!

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Touche They should hit rated then if they are that fresh.

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Old 07-01-2012, 03:09 AM   #34
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Touche They should hit rated then if they are that fresh.

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I keep my green-back boat bucks in a fire proof safe!

Yup - Both screws hit rated rpm... At WOT, 22/23 nmph... bout 1/2 nmpg is fuel usage rate; which equals = bout 44 gph. I do not hit WOT unless testing or dire need be, and then only for very short time span. At 16/17 knots the secondaries are not quite open... that's why she gets 1 nmpg at that comfortable planing speed.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:05 AM   #35
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Coot does about 6.5 knots running its single 80 h.p. JD 4045DFM70 at 1600 RPM using 1.3 gallons per hours,

Four! With the throttle pushed to the wall (2400 RPM). ... Ouch.

So that last Knot costs 2.7 gph EXTRA!

For the folks that keep on dreaming of cruising at theoretical "hull speed" , read the above a few times.

Hyper efficient can only come from a light skinney boat with proper power installed.

SO WHAT?

Any boat operated at SL 1 or so (the sq rt of the lwl) will be cheap to keep.

With really minor 6 K power requirements gas is far more efficient than an underloaded diesel.

A $5- $10K 36 Uniflite at 5 or 6 K will be a far better round trip than a custom built "hyper efficient" boat of any style.

Round Trip is buy it , fix it, use it and sell it.

The real cost of boating.

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Old 07-01-2012, 11:41 AM   #36
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Coot does about 6.5 knots running its single 80 h.p. JD 4045DFM70 at 1600 RPM using 1.3 gallons per hours,

Four! With the throttle pushed to the wall (2400 RPM). ... Ouch.

So that last Knot costs 2.7 gph EXTRA!

For the folks that keep on dreaming of cruising at theoretical "hull speed" , read the above a few times.

Hyper efficient can only come from a light skinney boat with proper power installed.

SO WHAT?

Any boat operated at SL 1 or so (the sq rt of the lwl) will be cheap to keep.

With really minor 6 K power requirements gas is far more efficient than an underloaded diesel.

A $5- $10K 36 Uniflite at 5 or 6 K will be a far better round trip than a custom built "hyper efficient" boat of any style.

Round Trip is buy it , fix it, use it and sell it.

The real cost of boating.

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Old 07-01-2012, 01:04 PM   #37
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Allweather Boats

These boats have a lot more room than appears and are trailerable.

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Old 07-02-2012, 12:04 PM   #38
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It gets me how we equate our boating pleasure to how much we're not spending. Oxymorons we are.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:17 PM   #39
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Ben I'd forgotten about the AllWeather. Great boat but light and folly like the Albin. Doubt if the OP will find one for 10K though. Many of these posts have overlooked d the $10K budget and that makes them interesting reading at best.
Re running a planing hull like a Tolly or Uniflite they can come much closer to good efficiency sometimes if they are compared to a heavy FD hull like a Willard instead of a hull of similar weight. My Willard weighs 8 tons and many to most planing hull 30' long will displace half of the weight of the Willard and hence can come closer to the efficiency of the Willard but the Willard is not really very efficient. An efficient FD boat will do fine w 3 hp per ton of disp. By that rule I'd need onle 24hp and I can't even make hull speed w 37 or so. The 2 tons of ballast and other design features dictate that my Willard needs considerably more power than a FD hull designed for efficiency. Willy is powered at 5hp per ton.








Uniflites are heavy for a planing hull w wide chines and require more power than even other planing hulls. Nota good choiceforthe OP. Tollys are lighter and are considerably narrower at the chine so will be a better choice for efficiency. Not as stable and will pound more in a head sea but better looking and more efficient. One could make a fair to moderately good FD boat out of most planing hulls by changing the shape of the stern. Just cut out a good chunk of the bottom, Laminate in a big "V" shaped flat section and a full disp hull will be had. Add a keel. Repower w small diesel or diesels, install an appropriate rudder and a good trawler can be had. One can buy an old FG boat and small diesel well within the OPs budget. That's why I asked him how handy he was w FG work. Better see me or a Marine Architect about where to cut and what shape to give the converted boat. A boat w too much weight aft like a twin Z drive Uniflite is an excellent choice as this mod will reduce the volume below the WL considerably aft and reduce the weight aft as well. The new boat should handle better than the original boat especially w the bigger rudder. So not much money will be required but lots of laminating and wood/glass fabricating will be necessary. Many boats are much better suited for this mod than others. If anyone is interested in such a mod or project you should contact me for phone conversation or someone else that knows enough to have a good shot at success. I should add that if you do this to a boat it will NEVER be a 10 to 14 knot boat again. Like any FD hull it will be limited to hull speed or less.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:26 PM   #40
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Ben I'd forgotten about the AllWeather. Great boat but light and folly like the Albin.
All Weathers are, or were, made in Ferndale, Washington, a few miles north of Bellingham. Last I heard, which was a few years ago, they were pretty much out of business. However they do still have a website.

I have only seen one in person, when Carey and I were walking the docks in Friday Harbor. The design is interesting, essentially a sailboat-type--- but I recall that the build quality was pretty bad, at least judging from the workmanship on the superstructure and what we could see of the inside of the cabin. So my lasting impression of them is a great idea with poor execution.
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