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Old 02-27-2013, 06:36 AM   #41
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I would have to get the electric straightened out first. That might be an added hassle.

NOT AT ALL,

the only electric hassle you will have (assuming the boat is OK) is when you wish to plug into USA dockside electric.

The Euros travel just fine with Euro boats with Euro electric operating.

Wait till you get to the USA to worry about the USA electric dockside hassles.

A pit stop in Hawaii , can be handled by doing what you would do at sea.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:45 AM   #42
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Yes it was helpful. Thank you.
I guess I was hoping that a good captain could help with the planning aspect. I may end sticking to plan A, which was to ship her from Asia to Boston, but I wanted to weigh my options.
Oh, so the boat is actually in Asia, not just Asian built?

I think I'd lean heavily towards shipping the whole way. I don't think the cost will be a whole lot more. Also, it would be good to start with local cruising on a new boat to get comfortable with things while still close to repair services, and if needed, towing services. Shipping to "Boston" probably means shipping to Newport, so you will have a nice shakedown cruise back up here.

In contrast, if you ship to the West coast the boat will likely land in San Diego and you will start from there. You will then immediately leave the US and the associated boat services that you are likely to need. A boat is nothing like a modern car where you just get in and drive it for 10 years with no trouble. It won't work from the start, and you will always have a list of things that are broken or need attention. The trick to not have any of the problem leave you dead in the water.

Another consideration is insurance. I know experienced boaters who have made the trip you describe, and their insurance company required that they hire a professional captain from San Diego all the way around to Florida. That's good because it gives you great 1x1 training, but bad because it adds to the costs.

Regardless, once you get the boat you would be well served by hiring someone to coach you. There is a lot to learn, and it's surprisingly easy to get into deep trouble fast. Just read about the family of 4 who just went missing off California.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:50 AM   #43
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Yes, he/she is correct, they have the "right" to post anything they want within the moderator's tolerance. But I have to question whether the skills are possessed to even know what good information is. One thing this person has consistently refused to do is tell us what their experience, including their family's, at sea is. By all appearances the answer to that is "zero". A lot of well meaning people are spending time and energy responding to a cavalcade of off-the-wall and frankly out-to-lunch posts, especially when you view them as a whole. I guess I define "troll" more broadly than standard. I am sorry if that was an affront,, no maybe I'm not, but I did go ahead and give him an excellent source to consult in Scott Bulger (who used another good source, Capt. Mike Maurice, to get him going).

While the OP may be proud of their eccentricities, (aren't we all?), I suggest the line has to be drawn when that veers into the realm of putting lives at danger, not just those of self and family and friends, but of those who may well be called upon to assist them.

Vis this thread, so here we have someone who by their own admission knows nothing about boats, buying a boat in Asia of unknown provenance and condition, wired apparently for European use, and shipping it over here, when there are hundreds of boats for sale here in the USA and Canada that would meet what we kinda of sorta think are their very fuzzily, not knowledge-based criteria?
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:04 AM   #44
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GalaxyGirl, one of the problems which might have lead to certain misunderstandings, is not all forum members read all the boards, let alone all the threads on all the boards. You have initiated quite a few threads on different boards, and on some you have briefly explained your situation, family set-up and so on, but assumed on others all have read that. Now I have looked up virtually all your posts, I have a better handle on where you are coming from, and why, but it was quite hard work. Might I suggest you put a succinct summary of the above in your profile. Then folk can quickly look that up, and get a better understanding of what is driving the queries. Just a thought...
And by the way, now I understand the plan, I can also understand the dream, and I like it. I would have liked to do something similar, but had to accept my spouse was not as keen, so it would not have worked. You appear not to be held back by anything except getting a boat and the knowledge to use it. If Mom (we say Mum) and kids are (figuratively for now) on board, then keep your eye on the prize...
Peter,
I can understand what your saying about not everyone has been following my posts. I figured if I was to post a question and someone were to be curious or would like more info before responding then they should politely ask for more info and I would gladely oblige. I would hope that folks would follow the forum rules and not be unkind or rude to a poster simply because something doesn't make sense to them. I know that this isn't a perfect world or a perfect forum (which would be very boring) so not everyone will behave like a muture adult and treat others kindly. So, I either defend myself with those kinds of posters or just ignore them.

I will take your good idea and post a brief description about my plan in my profile. I think of it as "The Plan" rather than "The Dream", because dreams are for Dreamers and Plans are for Doers Your right in that some insight into the Plan might be useful to those who would like to be helpful.


Too bad about your wife not seeing the light, but are you a cruiser now?
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:12 AM   #45
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I would have to get the electric straightened out first. That might be an added hassle.

NOT AT ALL,

the only electric hassle you will have (assuming the boat is OK) is when you wish to plug into USA dockside electric.

The Euros travel just fine with Euro boats with Euro electric operating.

Wait till you get to the USA to worry about the USA electric dockside hassles.

A pit stop in Hawaii , can be handled by doing what you would do at sea.
Pit stop in Hawaii? That implies cruising the boat across the Pacific from Asia. I would LOVE to do it. The time is tough though. I could set aside 2 months to get it home, but 4 months might be pushing it with kids and school.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:41 AM   #46
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GG: Have you researched your "needs" on Yachtworld? There are 2 vessels here on the East coast that seem to have much of what you are looking for. If you have not already, check out the 66ft Islander ($450K) at Mystic and the 65 steel trawler ($499) at Annapolis. You would be in control of the situation and timing to a much greater extent. It would be much easier to get the help you need for mechanical, captain help, insurance and training.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:00 PM   #47
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GG: Have you researched your "needs" on Yachtworld? There are 2 vessels here on the East coast that seem to have much of what you are looking for. If you have not already, check out the 66ft Islander ($450K) at Mystic and the 65 steel trawler ($499) at Annapolis. You would be in control of the situation and timing to a much greater extent. It would be much easier to get the help you need for mechanical, captain help, insurance and training.
Chris,
I'm fairly sure that I have seen EVERY power trawler on yachtworld , with the exception of the too small for me ones.

The boat in Ct is not an ocean crosser, so it's no good for me. It kind of looks like a houseboat, not very seaworthy, but what do I know.

The boat in Annapolis, the Jennifer Ann, is a real beaut. The biggest problem with that boat, besides the fact that it is also not an ocean crosser is that she can only be operated in good weather, as there is no pilothouse. I suppose the flybridge helm could be enclosed, but it would be very chilly on a cold day, and at night that would be no good either. Very limiting. Perfect for someone who has no desire to leave the dock much, but that's just not me.

These were the factors that I used in determing that the boat I chose was right for me:

1. Seaworthy-Proven Ocean-Crosser
2. Enough Cabins
3. 2 Family rooms- kids can hang out and adults can have a seperate area to relax
3. Great on fuel
4. Great condition
5. Great lenght-Not too long

If I am unable to acquire this boat that I have chose, then I will have to go with another, but if I am able to purchase it, then why go with another. It's far, but that can be overcome.

Nothing is set in stone as of yet, so if something comes available closer to home then I certainly would entertain. I do watch Yachtworld every day for new listings and price changes.

Thanks for trying to help.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:25 PM   #48
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Galaxy Girl, You are rapidly climbing a steep learning curve. Your response to Chrisjs reveals depth of knowledge some of us (me incl) did not see.
There is commonsense in your first voyage not crossing an ocean, but if you can`t find what you want at home, no option. May it go well.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:57 PM   #49
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In response to a private message that I recieved, and some of your thread replies:

I'm sorry that my questions are viewed as offensive and troll like to some. Many of you that have been talking to me both here and on Cruisers know my history from the beginning so I didn't feel the need to introduce and explain.

I know that my situation is very unique and possibly one of kind, which will make it not believable to many, but that's fine. My life is very unique and if you knew me personally, I'm sure that none of what I say here would seem at all out of the ordinary. You would also know from my life history, that my boat purchase is not "all talk", it WILL get done. I may have to sort out a few things, but that's ok. That being said, this is a public forum. I figured that if one does not like my threads, or questions he/she could ignore them. My name is posted as the author, if you think I'm a troll or full of crap, then bi-pass my threads. No one is making anyone here open, read, or respond. If the owners/moderators do not like what I post it is their choice to inform me of such and/or close my account. Neither of which has been done yet, so my posts must not violate any rules.

Just because a situation seems out of the ordinary to you, doesn't make it wrong. Just because something is not being done the way that you think it should be done, doesn't make it wrong. Just because someone asks questions that you think are stupid or inexperienced questions, doesn't mean that they can't ask them.

The reason that I was asking about the trip form California to New England, as some of you know, is because I am seriously considering the purchase of an Asian boat. I was trying to realistically figure a delivery time without stopping to sight see because I wanted to accompany and some of my kids want to come along also, so I was trying to figure out if I could get it done over the summer months while they are out of school or if I would have to fly home with them part way or how to start thinking about the planning. I am aware that I could calculate distance, but I was hoping that in between all of the "your crazy", "your a troll" type comments, someone who has done a delivery similar to this would chime in with a realistic time estimation based on experience and scenarios that I may not be able to calculate.

I do get a lot of undesirable replies to my questions, but I also get some VERY good information. It is obvious to me, that not everyone, but some have real life experience and are willing to offer good advice to someone like me. I have to sift through replies and extract the good stuff, but it's worth it. I ignore the unhelpful feedback and focus on the folks who really now what they are are talking about.
I for one never thought you were a troll.

Your questions have been well founded, and have appeared to me at least as an honest attempt to learn.

I do not know your complete situation but whatever it is I for one am happy to help where I have specific experience or ability to do so.

Best of luck in your endeavor
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:54 PM   #50
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Peter,
I can understand what your saying about not everyone has been following my posts.
I will take your good idea and post a brief description about my plan in my profile. I think of it as "The Plan" rather than "The Dream", because dreams are for Dreamers and Plans are for Doers Your right in that some insight into the Plan might be useful to those who would like to be helpful.
Too bad about your wife not seeing the light, but are you a cruiser now?
For sure we cruise, but just nowhere near as far and wide as you are planning, and I would have liked, but we reached a satisfactory compromise I feel.
By the way, how about a pic of you and the family on the profile...just helps in thinking about who one is responding to...
It's all accessed under User CP = control panel, and fairly intuitive, but let's know if you strike trouble.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:48 PM   #51
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GG

Maybe I missed it, but what is the blue water capable boat in question you are referencing?
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:08 AM   #52
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By all appearances the answer to that is "zero".

Everyone starts at ZERO , so?

On a motor boat the main ocean crossing skill that is hard to start at zero, is the ability to repair the boat . engine and systems IF they crap out.

Trouble shooting and repair are developed skills over years ,
steering / watchstanding no big deal, even less with an autopilot with GPS.

Not many cruisers today have a sextant , tables , chronometer , or recording barograph aboard.

IF transit time is a concern , there are loads of study courses to home skool the kids.

Home skooled usually get into the premium kolledges , compared to union teacher skooled kids.

An ocean capable boat might as well come over on her own bottom, its what it was created for.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:10 AM   #53
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...On a motor boat the main ocean crossing skill that is hard to start at zero, is the ability to repair the boat . engine and systems IF they crap out...

Trouble shooting and repair are developed skills over years...
What you say is true if you are talking about a well-rounded mechanic capable of completely tearing down gasoline and diesel engines, trouble shooting every aspect. Diesels are reliable; however, it is good practice to do a through check before heading out to sea. About 80 percent of the problems are caused by fuel contamination with water in the fuel that promotes biological growth in the fuel. There are additives to prevent this growth and should be used. Lots of fuel filters, big ones, like on a commercial boat with gauges to show when replacement is a good idea, maybe a fuel polishing system could be installed with big filters. This helps if bad fuel is taken on board containing water. Also, there are fuel filters for removing much of the contamination as the fuel tanks are being filled. I have seen these referred to as Baja filters. On a new purchase, removing the old fuel and cleaning the fuel tanks would be a good idea, or at least sample the bottom of the tanks to see what is there.
New house bank and engine batteries are needed if the batteries are old or show low resting voltage or low hydrometer readings. I really like a hydrometer myself if the batteries have caps on them for adding water. You can tell if a cell is going bad from age or if there is sulfation. These are available on Amazon and other places. Dorman makes a good one. Also, if the boat has been sitting a long time with no battery charger keeping the batteries at full charge, the batteries can also be ruined from sulfation. When buying new batteries, check for dates of manufacture as batteries can go bad just sitting on a shelf from self-discharge and sulfation. Three months is pushing it. Sulfation makes it so that a battery cannot take a charge; itís like having a smaller battery that keeps getting smaller until nothing is left. This happens from just sitting or if the alternator has how voltage.
It would also be a good idea to do an oil analysis if the oil has not just been changed. You are looking for bearing metal, aluminum and iron that indicates excessive wear. A compression check tells a lot about and must be done. Since the injectors are out for this, have them checked for a good spray pattern, or just replace. Hoses and through hulls should be checked.
As for the boat owner being a mechanic, if narrowed down to a particular engine, knowing how to swap out a water pump, change a fuel injector, alternator, starter, electronic fuel injection module and sensors can be done by a novice if these items were removed and reinstalled for practice with a mechanic as instructor. Buy mechanics gloves to protect the hands if the wrench slips until you know what you are doing. Buy a good hand cleaner for mechanics and a fingernail brush.
An engine analyzer and multimeter should be on board for troubleshooting. The basic electrical principles are not that difficult to determine bad starter cable connections, shorted starter, low alternator voltage. If the boat has more than one engine, that helps with peace of mind. When a boat engine receives a pre-purchase inspection by a mechanic the above items will be checked if a good job is done plus other things I have forgotten, or am not aware of.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:52 AM   #54
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sea. About 80 percent of the problems are caused by fuel contamination with water in the fuel that promotes biological growth in the fuel. A compression check tells a lot about and must be done.
My 2 cents worth when considering at a vessel intended for a blue water crossing by a newbie -
  1. 80% of problems caused by water contaminated fuel, I'm not so sure of that unless the vessel has been neglected which then would cause you to walk away.
  2. Compression checks on an otherwise good running diesel are not relevant
  3. If the vessel does not start right up without a lot of smoke, walk away.
  4. If the vessel cannot achieve rated RPM with the current props, walk away.
  5. If the vessel overheats at full rated RPM for 5 minutes or so, walk away.
  6. Dirty ER with oil, fuel and water in the bilge - be very wary.
  7. No good service records - be very wary.
  8. Smells bad - why
  9. Look for a well documented blue water designed vessel with a safe range of 2500 miles.
To find a blue water proven vessel that meets the above criteria will limit one to higher end vessels where the PO has spent the maintenance dollars. The capacity need of GG's for 5 kids, Captain and animals notwithstanding - the ideal vessel lurks in the 46' to 57' Nordhavns, 52' Seahorse/Diesel Duck, 57' Northern Marine or 48' Krogen. Anything over these sizes gets one well above a million $$ real fast.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:19 AM   #55
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We don't know the financial status of the PO. If it's considerable, defined as a multimillionaire, then buy a blue water boat, hire a capable (Full time captain) and go! Anything less is foolhardy. (IMO)

This isn't a matter of trampling on someone's dreams! It's a matter of informing a person who has never done anything close to crossing an ocean in a relatively small craft, how to stay alive!
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:51 AM   #56
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What you say is true if you are talking about a well-rounded mechanic capable of completely tearing down gasoline and diesel engines, trouble shooting every aspect. Diesels are reliable; however, it is good practice to do a through check before heading out to sea. About 80 percent of the problems are caused by fuel contamination with water in the fuel that promotes biological growth in the fuel. There are additives to prevent this growth and should be used. Lots of fuel filters, big ones, like on a commercial boat with gauges to show when replacement is a good idea, maybe a fuel polishing system could be installed with big filters. This helps if bad fuel is taken on board containing water. Also, there are fuel filters for removing much of the contamination as the fuel tanks are being filled. I have seen these referred to as Baja filters. On a new purchase, removing the old fuel and cleaning the fuel tanks would be a good idea, or at least sample the bottom of the tanks to see what is there.
New house bank and engine batteries are needed if the batteries are old or show low resting voltage or low hydrometer readings. I really like a hydrometer myself if the batteries have caps on them for adding water. You can tell if a cell is going bad from age or if there is sulfation. These are available on Amazon and other places. Dorman makes a good one. Also, if the boat has been sitting a long time with no battery charger keeping the batteries at full charge, the batteries can also be ruined from sulfation. When buying new batteries, check for dates of manufacture as batteries can go bad just sitting on a shelf from self-discharge and sulfation. Three months is pushing it. Sulfation makes it so that a battery cannot take a charge; itís like having a smaller battery that keeps getting smaller until nothing is left. This happens from just sitting or if the alternator has how voltage.
It would also be a good idea to do an oil analysis if the oil has not just been changed. You are looking for bearing metal, aluminum and iron that indicates excessive wear. A compression check tells a lot about and must be done. Since the injectors are out for this, have them checked for a good spray pattern, or just replace. Hoses and through hulls should be checked.
As for the boat owner being a mechanic, if narrowed down to a particular engine, knowing how to swap out a water pump, change a fuel injector, alternator, starter, electronic fuel injection module and sensors can be done by a novice if these items were removed and reinstalled for practice with a mechanic as instructor. Buy mechanics gloves to protect the hands if the wrench slips until you know what you are doing. Buy a good hand cleaner for mechanics and a fingernail brush.
An engine analyzer and multimeter should be on board for troubleshooting. The basic electrical principles are not that difficult to determine bad starter cable connections, shorted starter, low alternator voltage. If the boat has more than one engine, that helps with peace of mind. When a boat engine receives a pre-purchase inspection by a mechanic the above items will be checked if a good job is done plus other things I have forgotten, or am not aware of.
Maybe I can just take you along with me....

Lots of good info. Thanks for taking the time to share that.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:55 AM   #57
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My 2 cents worth when considering at a vessel intended for a blue water crossing by a newbie -
  1. 80% of problems caused by water contaminated fuel, I'm not so sure of that unless the vessel has been neglected which then would cause you to walk away.
  2. Compression checks on an otherwise good running diesel are not relevant
  3. If the vessel does not start right up without a lot of smoke, walk away.
  4. If the vessel cannot achieve rated RPM with the current props, walk away.
  5. If the vessel overheats at full rated RPM for 5 minutes or so, walk away.
  6. Dirty ER with oil, fuel and water in the bilge - be very wary.
  7. No good service records - be very wary.
  8. Smells bad - why
  9. Look for a well documented blue water designed vessel with a safe range of 2500 miles.
To find a blue water proven vessel that meets the above criteria will limit one to higher end vessels where the PO has spent the maintenance dollars. The capacity need of GG's for 5 kids, Captain and animals notwithstanding - the ideal vessel lurks in the 46' to 57' Nordhavns, 52' Seahorse/Diesel Duck, 57' Northern Marine or 48' Krogen. Anything over these sizes gets one well above a million $$ real fast.
Ok, I printing out your list. I will be sure that my surveyor checks this stuff for me. Thanks.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:01 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
We don't know the financial status of the PO. If it's considerable, defined as a multimillionaire, then buy a blue water boat, hire a capable (Full time captain) and go! Anything less is foolhardy. (IMO)

This isn't a matter of trampling on someone's dreams! It's a matter of informing a person who has never done anything close to crossing an ocean in a relatively small craft, how to stay alive!
Just want everyone out there in Forum Land following this thread to remeber that I will not be crossing oceans alone. I won't even be crossing my harbor alone or pulling out of my slip alone for a very long time. I will have lots of training and captained trips for a few years.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:04 PM   #59
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Ok, I printing out your list. I will be sure that my surveyor checks this stuff for me. Thanks.
GG, I suggest you need more than a garden variety surveyor. Hire RickB.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:07 PM   #60
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Your surveyor should know this stuff!!
Perhaps more important in a way is prepping the vessel for the voyage back (unless you intend to ship it back). Getting an unknown vessel ready with systems checks, spare parts, safety gear, life raft, provisions, new watermaker, new stabilizers, new electrical system, etc ahead of a long voyage is no small task and can take a while plus extra cash. If you ship it all the way to Boston, obviously you can deal with all these issues including the electrical question once back in home territory, plus chances are it will cost a lot less in the long run.
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