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Old 10-29-2016, 04:02 PM   #81
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That should about cover filter changes in a seaway. Stay the course Bill
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Old 11-05-2016, 04:48 PM   #82
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Is the Lowland on the market?
Max,
I am not sure of the nature of your inquiry above but if you have interest in a Lowland, a sister ship of the same build year just showed up for sale on our coast. These are very rare birds so thought I would pass this along just in case. Stabilized and looks very well kept.

1983 Boats For Sale
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Old 12-24-2016, 06:37 PM   #83
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I recognize the perils here considering both the subject matter and the idea of seeking consensus among diversity.....but what the heck.

The electrical system has been Americanized to an operative degree, survey items mostly tidied up, fuel cleaned up, and we are on to electronics update after the holiday. We are planning now for the anchor(s) question. There I said it....anchor(s).

First order of business is more chain length. The two anchor system has 100' of half inch chain each. Apparently the Dutch canals are not deep and there was no plan to anchor in the North Sea! We will need more. The anchor lockers may hold 300 but this would be much easier to understand with one anchor rather this this two anchor system.
First, any comments on one v. two? I am having a hard time warming up to the two but many larger boats are set up this way (see first pic). What gives?

If one, there would be an option to use one of the existing nests or another option would be to go straight out the front over a roller. See second two pics.

I went over to Sydney BC to see the Ground Tackle boys a week ago and that would likely be my choice of anchor if going to a single off the bow and maybe even into a modified nest.

Comments, critiques, or ideas?
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Old 12-26-2016, 10:19 PM   #84
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I am going to try this again because:
A. I figured out how to get the pictures right side up and
B. I got exactly zero input on my question and I really would appreciate helpful advice on this.
How many of you use a two anchor system? Do they foul each other on tide or wind changes? How far apart do you drop them?
I am having hard time warming up to two but also not sure how to make a good switch to one. This boat is not easy to fit on an anchor chart because of the length to weight disparity. At 52 feet and 114000# there are three anchor sizes between one recommended for this weight and one recommended for this length. Go with the largest and that is one very big anchor and brings the two anchor idea back into play.
I am also not sure what this windlass is going to do with one very large anchor. It looks like the current set up pulled one anchor at a time. It is an external electric motor driving a gear that is coupled to the windlass gears by two V belts.
What would you do?
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Old 12-27-2016, 03:25 AM   #85
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Those of us with 2 anchors rigged and ready to deploy will almost never have both out at the same time. On those few occasions we have had two or more anchors out in a rafting situation. we have regretted the time it took to unspin the raft in order to begin hoisting either anchor. Nothing moves when they are twisted together. Just think if you had to do all of that work yourself!
The second anchor may be useful in other waters, but here in BC, if one won't hold, lighten the load by separating the rafted boats and each puts out their own.
Those carrying two capable anchors on one bow have a spare, for the rare times that one may be fouled and needs to be cut loose, for diver retrieval, leaving the ship with a full anchor system intact. That is usually only found on large, heavy boats, where the extra weight is easily carried. I assume yours is one of those, as you already have twin, heavy systems.
You didn't say what type of anchor you are getting, maybe to keep this thread in control, but that may also be a topic for consideration.
Regardless of the anchor type, 1/2" chain is quite large, even for a Dutch boat, so carrying a lot of it will be a heavy load. You might consider going to cable, at least after the initial 50 ft of chain, enough to provide the weight catenary that keeps your anchor stock on the bottom.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:10 AM   #86
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Check out the first stockless anchor to receive SHHP designation...looks like it might fit your bow plates perfectly: First stockless SHHP anchor
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:41 AM   #87
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Klee Wyck

Yike, you're in a bit of a pickle with your anchor situation! I agree with Toliver, that two bow anchors are rarely set simultaneously in the PNW. So...how best to rig your new boat?

As I presume up-sizing one of your existing anchors is a non-starter due to the hawsepipe size and/or geometry or windlass capacity it seems to me you may be restricted to simply adding another 200-300' of chain to one anchor, and go from there. Frankly, the need to anchor in extreme conditions up here is pretty remote. Unless you deliberately intend to operate come hell or high water, the availability of sheltered anchorages is pretty good up here. And unless the existing anchor is pitifully unsuitable, additional scope usually fills the bill.

Obviously, converting to a bow roller and single more suitable anchor is possible. Just bring money. But in answer to your question of "what would I do", I'd add chain to one anchor and carry on. And perhaps board another 300' of synthetic line as backup.

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Old 12-27-2016, 05:46 PM   #88
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Thanks to the three of you for these useful responses. I feel like there is a sound answer in there and indicates not a strong need to get real creative here.
These two hanging there are large anchors with a geometry that is very similar to the anchor Murray referenced. I will try to get a weight on them when I am in the yard but judging by their size in real life against others I have experience with, I am going to put them around 150# each.
Adding two hundred feed of 1/2 inch G4 to one side only adds 500# of new weight which I am going to call insignificant (<0.5%) even given its location. This gives me 5:1 in 60' with 900# of steel and a very large fluke area between the boat and the seabed. I think I am going to call that good for the conditions I will see and be willing to anchor in. If it gets worse than that I guess I will be bow into it with the motor on and wide awake anyway! Hull shape/entry and low windage are in my favor I think and I am just not equipped to judge the buoyancy effect of this chunk of steel in a surge relative to the catenary available with all 300' of the chain out. Physics experts? The chain has a working load of 9200#. The capability of the windlass should not be question since we would never be lifting more than the current arrangement if never anchored in over 100 feet.

To Peter, it would not be very difficult to go straight out the front over a roller given the structure and material in the bow and that is one option I was considering. For that I would need the chain anyway so I think going with option of keeping these anchors and adding chain to one and running that way awhile would not preclude this option at a later date.

Thanks for the help,
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Old 12-27-2016, 06:57 PM   #89
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If it were me, I would keep both anchors with the hawsepipe stowage and add chain to one side only. Coming from a commercial side we always had two bower anchors although we very rarely used more than one at a time. When we needed two, it was handy being right there in the hawse ready to go. Just having the choice of which side to drop an anchor in some situations can be handy. I love the big beefy windlass. Looks like it can handle hard work. And yes, work one anchor at a time on retrieval. Usually we only used two when there is a constant one way current such as a rising River. Set them out with a 60* spread, each one 30* off the bow, port and starboard. Love your boat.
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:40 PM   #90
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If it were me, I would sell that boat to me so you don't have worry about the anchor problem.
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:39 PM   #91
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To answer Dhays question from the chain bitter end thread rather than hijack that one.

Prep is going well I think, though nothing happens quickly in the marine trades it seems.

Systems that I think are ready, though not thoroughly time tested: Electrical, mechanical/drivetrain, and HVAC. The electrical was a bit of a project as you would imagine and we went further than originally planned. The electrical system with its 5 voltages (yes 5, 2 DC and three AC) was very complicated and included numerous relays for automatic switching based on sensing power sources. We eliminated much of the automatic switching and went to manual selector switches instead. Thanks to Victron I should now be able to plug into virtually any shore power in the world and still run the boat as she is with 12 and 24 volt DC , 220 volt single phase AC and 220 and 400 volt three phase AC. I would say that 90% of this boat is DC so there are few appliances that I would need to worry about replacing at European voltage and frequency. So far I have only found the laundry, coffee pot and microwave. There are of course some motors involved in this in the tankage systems and windlass but I am not going to fear sourcing those should they need replacment. The mechanical and drive train issues from survey were relatively minor to solve once we had clean fuel. The diesel fired furnace to a multitude of radiators throughout the vessel have made a very harsh NW Winter quite pleasant on the boat. I am going to leave the household sized and plumbed toilets as is for now based on advice from contractors. It was odd not having marine type toilets at first but I am warming up to the idea, tanks and all.
Projects left are comnav equipment and rode lengthening. The comnav is virtually a start over which is OK with me. The Robertson AP might be salvageable but is currently not seeing a fluxgate. I am considering a GpS compass considering the steel hull. It has one helluva AP pump in the engine room that I think also runs the joystick steering.
For those who might be so kind as to comment on my comnav choices here is the plan. The reason this is last is that these decisions have not been easy for me du to lack of experience and knowledge.
For charting I plan to go CE on PC and have Navionics on a PAD in Lifeproof box as backup. Radar will be Furuno 6KW 1945, Vesper AIS, and still fussing about sonar for depth/bottom contour/fish. I want stand alone display for that and have planned to abandon the EchoPilot forward looking sonar to use the same hole for the new transducer. I will need at least one more radio which I hope will also serve as hailer/fog. I agree that the new Standard Horizon due out in March looks extremely handy in that regard.

I want most of this out of my hair by mid March.
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:07 PM   #92
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That standard horizon would be nice as it would give you the Class B AIS.

I hope to see her on the water some time.
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:40 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
If it were me, I would sell that boat to me so you don't have worry about the anchor problem.
Dude,
Sounds like you're reading a Larry McMurtry book ... as
I am now.
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:53 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klee wyck View Post
I am going to try this again because:
A. I figured out how to get the pictures right side up and
B. I got exactly zero input on my question and I really would appreciate helpful advice on this.
How many of you use a two anchor system? Do they foul each other on tide or wind changes? How far apart do you drop them?
I am having hard time warming up to two but also not sure how to make a good switch to one. This boat is not easy to fit on an anchor chart because of the length to weight disparity. At 52 feet and 114000# there are three anchor sizes between one recommended for this weight and one recommended for this length. Go with the largest and that is one very big anchor and brings the two anchor idea back into play.
I am also not sure what this windlass is going to do with one very large anchor. It looks like the current set up pulled one anchor at a time. It is an external electric motor driving a gear that is coupled to the windlass gears by two V belts.
What would you do?

Twins anchor rules for vessel


When using two anchors grip increases only in the event that the anchors are close to each other, (not more than 30 degrees to each other), and the chain is sufficient outdoors.
While the vessel is moored with two anchors should be controlled in turn depend on the ship's anchors in such a way as to avoid confusion with anchor chains.


ANCHORING stern Mortgages
2.Two anchors for approaching moorings parallel to the dock or the shoreline far enough away from it. When the first anchor is calculated, continue forward or backward, until agreement is reached on this about four times the depth of the corresponding distance when calculating a second anchor. After this, the stern of the vessel turned towards the moorings and act as has been said in the previous paragraph.



Removal is carried out in such a way that the chain is removed first, and the ship is using the machines in such a position that the lifting anchors is safe and can be free to deal with the beginning of the anchors detached from the bottom. Often it is necessary to keep upwind stern rope stick and give it to loosen, until the origin is clearly outside the space for mounting.
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