Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-08-2014, 10:01 AM   #141
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Some marinas aren't worth staying at for a day.
Then you should feel super comfortable anchoring somewhere. If the marina isn't worth it, there's always a better alternative. Save the money for the marina that is worth staying at.
__________________
Advertisement

Jeffrey S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:10 AM   #142
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
That's true if it's a "destination" marina or town but not if you're trying to make time or get to somewhere else. Some marinas aren't worth staying at for a day.
Correct, Ron. That is for our type of cruising. I think live aboard cruising is totally different. There may be no destination just the cruise. The way Jeff does it is ideal. That's more like what we do when getting to the Keys, Bahamas, or Chesapeake. We cover distance then slow down to enjoy the area at a leisurely pace.

I have always thought I would like to cast off the lines, and do it as Jeff does. I have had to reconcile that due to circumstances it will probably never happen. Hey, this ain't so bad like it is. In fact, I really like it.
__________________

__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:18 AM   #143
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post
Capt. Bill, I know you are a very experienced mariner, but I think this is not always correct. When the ICW travels along a returning from sea channel toward the sea the green markers will be on the starboard side going south. They are to be considered a red for the ICW and will have the gold triangle on them. Red is considered a green ICW marker with the gold square on them. The converging channels I can think of are at the Cape Fear, Panama City, and for a short way at Pensacola Pass. Just something to watch out for.
Yes. But I believe if the marker is physically shaped like a triangle or square day shape or tapered like a nun it will always have the yellow symbol match the shape. If the marker is a standard buoy with a squared off top it can display either the yellow square or triangle regardless of what color it is.

See the nav aids booklet I attached the link to.

At least that is the way I remember it. But of course my memory could be playing tricks on me.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:25 AM   #144
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey S View Post
Then you should feel super comfortable anchoring somewhere. If the marina isn't worth it, there's always a better alternative. Save the money for the marina that is worth staying at.
There are times when you are hot and tired and need/want air conditioning and a long shower or just need to get off the boat for a while (or your dog does). You might be low on fuel or water. You might not be near a suitable anchorage.

There are no rules, we each do it the way that suits us. I have done what you suggested and I have done it the other way, whichever seems best at the time.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:36 AM   #145
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Page 25 of that booklet does lead one to believe that if the ICW mark is on a shaped buoy...it will be the same and that makes sense...then the next sentence ways look at the yellow mark and not the color of the primary aid...

Best to just check the chart if in doubt....

http://www.uscgboating.org/ATON/index.html
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	chart2.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	104.5 KB
ID:	31877  
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:48 AM   #146
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Yes. But I believe if the marker is physically shaped like a triangle or square day shape or tapered like a nun it will always have the yellow symbol match the shape. If the marker is a standard buoy with a squared off top it can display either the yellow square or triangle regardless of what color it is.

See the nav aids booklet I attached the link to.

At least that is the way I remember it. But of course my memory could be playing tricks on me.
Maybe there is a semantics issue. You see a yellow symbol different from the navaid it is on when the navaid is marking a an inlet from the ocean. So as you cross the inlet say from east to west, the red buoy will have a yellow triangle on it, and the green also a yellow triangle. As far as them being visible, a good pair of binoculars is much more important (and less dangerous) than a chart plotter for cruising the ICW.

I just went through a mental tour of the ICW and cannot recall anywhere there was not a viable anchorage, even for a boat our size, within 10 miles of a marina area, and usually well within five. It gets a little dicey in urban south florida, but then you have a number of choices of marina quality to pick from. Anchoring out, even taking a mooring, is the best way to save money (though not as much as one may think if you have to run the genset all day), along with eating on the boat. For us, it wasn't a money saving proposition as much as it was our life style preference; anchoring being our main reason for cruising. Otherwise we'd just take a car and/or an airplane.

Jeff: Skipper Bob was offering the advice on when to go to a marina at least 10 years ago, if not more. In early, out late.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:59 AM   #147
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,133
We generally do dock at marinas rather than anchor so some follow up to the comment earlier about getting there early.

First, when cruising we've fallen into a schedule where we generally leave the dock around 7:00 AM. That generally, but not always, gets one the calmest part of the day, the coolest, and the least congested. It also does have the benefit of getting one to the next destination earlier or covering a greater distances. Getting to a destination earlier does two things. It might help you avoid docking issue, but more, it allows you to enjoy the new stop that same day.

Now, as to 2:00 or noon, I'm assuming that he's referencing getting assigned a good slip. Places that are crowded and don't take reservations that is definitely an issue. Same issue in crowded anchorages. However, the vast majority of marinas do take reservations. We always follow up on ours too, the day before. Plus we touch base with the dockmaster while on the way. We let them know our expected time and let them know if anything is changing. Then rather than pull up to the dock waiting for help, we contact as we head in so they can be prepared for us. We have the marina pulled up so if they describe the dock and slip we can visualize it. That way there is no wondering where we're supposed to go or the space being too small. 95% of the time as a transient we end up with side tie. The more you communicate, the nicer you are, the better things will go. Plus then return trips are even easier.

But then we don't go for the cheapest dock either. Often there is a reason it's cheap and the spot you get assigned is too shallow or has boards sticking out or other issues. Doesn't mean the most expensive. Do some research on the marinas in the areas you're headed. We've docked between 400 and 500 nights in the past two years and 99% have worked out well. We've not found more than 8 or 10 areas in which we realized in advance the marinas were inadequate. Those are the times we've anchored. We've also gotten many referrals from one marina to another later on the trip or from other boaters and using those often opens doors quicker.

It is worth the time to study the areas you intend to cruise and study the marinas and anchorages in detail. Use multiple sources. That way there will be no surprises. And it won't be so important what time you arrive. We've arrived at several after hours but never without communicating with them in advance and almost always without problems.

Be careful how you describe your boat too. A Grand Banks 53 is not 53'. It's 58' with a 17'9" beam and 4'9" draft and for expedience I'd describe as 58', 18' beam, 5' draft. But you say a Grand Banks 53 and you may well get sandwiched in a space you don't fit. With platforms and pulpits many boats are now 5' or more beyond their stated size. A Fleming 58 is 65'5".

We've found time at marinas to be pleasant 98% of the time. But then we were prepared. The marina that had a bar on the dock open until 2 AM didn't surprise us. Or the one by the train track. Or the morning ferry traffic.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 11:00 AM   #148
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Jeff: Skipper Bob was offering the advice on when to go to a marina at least 10 years ago, if not more. In early, out late.
I knew Bob personally. We lost him too soon - he had many gems to share that came out of many years and miles of cruising.
Jeffrey S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 11:04 AM   #149
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
A little story. Sorry for the drift. I was helping a couple that had no saltwater experience take their spanking new Heritage East trawler from Clearwater, FL to Orange Beach, AL. This was before chart plotters. I was doing the charts, and warned my "captain" about the change in markers as we went into the ship channel under the bridge at Panama City. He said that he had taken boating courses, and never heard of such a thing. I told him that if he didn't honor that he would damage his boat. He said he would do it if I would take full responsibility for what happened. Not wanting to spend several hours aground, I said I would.

When we went by the first green daymark on our starboard side a Carver cruiser was almost sitting out of the water tilted to one side. They didn't indicate they wanted any help, so we went on the PC Marina for the night. We went to dinner, and went to bed. About midnight we heard a loud noise. There was metal hitting metal and a lot of shouting. They tied up in the slip next to us. It was the Carver, and the wife by her very salty language was not very happy with the whole thing. In fact she said she would never get on the boat again.

We helped them get tied in. My "captain" says to them, "didn't you know the markers change colors as you come under the bridge". They just glared at him. I just went back to bed. One more day and I would be off the boat.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 11:09 AM   #150
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey S View Post
I knew Bob personally. We lost him too soon - he had many gems to share that came out of many years and miles of cruising.
True indeed (you should have listened to him ;o) !), though he also had a tendency to dole out some bad advice, the worst of all emphatically telling newbies they should not bother cruising New England! And some not very practical advice, such as always anchoring with two anchors off the bow. I'd still recommend his "cruising on a budget" book for a reference, but not a Bible.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 11:30 AM   #151
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
True indeed (you should have listened to him ;o) !), though he also had a tendency to dole out some bad advice, the worst of all emphatically telling newbies they should not bother cruising New England! And some not very practical advice, such as always anchoring with two anchors off the bow. I'd still recommend his "cruising on a budget" book for a reference, but not a Bible.
It's that way with many writers, especially boating. They all have their prejudices, so great to read but don't take as gospel. In some ways even worse than an online forum because no one there to call them out on it.

I love Captain John's great loop site but sure don't agree with him on boat choice although many here might.

And those taking David Pascoe's reviews as gospel. Sorry, but they're more what he'd like than completely objective. Read them but filter them. It's actually enjoyable for me to get use to specific reviewers and know their preferences which will always find their way in.

But much to be gained by reading a wide selection.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 12:24 PM   #152
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post

When we went by the first green daymark on our starboard side
See, that is what I can't remember. Was/is that marker an actual day marker on a pole with a square wood panel or a floating green square top buoy?

I've been through there several times but it's been years so I don't recall what type of markers they are.

Wish some one had a picture.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 12:29 PM   #153
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
See, that is what I can't remember. Was/is that marker an actual day marker on a pole with a square wood panel or a floating green square top buoy?

I've been through there several times but it's been years so I don't recall what type of markers they are.

Wish some one had a picture.
Yeah, it's a square green day mark with a gold triangle on it. I guess that is a little esoteric piece of info that can come in handy . Just like why you never run to an equal interval light.

On thinking the reason for this, when back lighted it is hard to tell the color of a marker. If a green were triangular it could be taken for a red.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 12:44 PM   #154
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 06:54 PM   #155
Guru
 
windmill29130's Avatar
 
City: Little River SC
Vessel Name: JAZ
Vessel Model: Ta Chaio/CT35
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post
This is the chart book I use. Convenient size, easy to flip pages. As you read ahead each day and learn of trouble spots put a notated yellow sticky note next to the area.

The Intracostal Waterway Chart book: Norfolk, Virginia, to Miami, Florida

Right on about the red being on the land side. That is true in all but a few places such as the Cape Fear River. The big things to look for are the gold triangles and squares denoting the ICW markers. The gold never changes sides. The gold triangle is always the land side no matter if it is on red or green.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...=9780071545792

A lot cheaper on Amazon!
__________________
Tracy & Susie Hellman 1985 Ta Chiao CT 35
Twin Lehman Super 90's Westerbeke 4.4kw
Lightkeepers Marina -Little River, SC
windmill29130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 10:26 PM   #156
Guru
 
janice142's Avatar
 
City: St. Pete, FL
Country: USofA
Vessel Name: Seaweed
Vessel Model: Schucker mini-trawler
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 914
Send a message via AIM to janice142 Send a message via MSN to janice142 Send a message via Yahoo to janice142 Send a message via Skype™ to janice142
I too remember the markers changing sides in Panama City by St. Andrews. I managed that just fine but then in a moment (or more) lacking lucidity, I decided to "cut the corner" when heading into Pearl Bayou for a stopover. All was well as I headed in (not thinking about moon being full so the tide was lower than normal) but the real kick was forgetting that because I was no longer in the main channel the markers swapped sides.

Oops.
Fortunately I wasn't going fast and it was a rising tide so I could pretend I meant to stop there for a bit. And about an hour later the tide came in enough for me to get across and into the channel.

Seaweed didn't lean -- and I tried to put in a Hazard into Active Captain as a 'head's up' but it was rejected. I guess everyone else is smarter than I was that day.

Anyway, if you do decide to go into Pearl Bayou (under the flight pattern for Tyndale Air Force base) don't forget to watch those markers. And have a nice fly-boys movie to watch on the DVD player too.

It was a nice spot. There was an Island Packet anchored near me too. a double cabin (Chris Craft?) couldn't get their (inadequately sized/all rope rode) anchor to hold.
__________________
Janice aboard Seaweed, living the good life afloat...
http://janice142.com
janice142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 09:44 AM   #157
Guru
 
windmill29130's Avatar
 
City: Little River SC
Vessel Name: JAZ
Vessel Model: Ta Chaio/CT35
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by janice142 View Post
I too remember the markers changing sides in Panama City by St. Andrews. I managed that just fine but then in a moment (or more) lacking lucidity, I decided to "cut the corner" when heading into Pearl Bayou for a stopover. All was well as I headed in (not thinking about moon being full so the tide was lower than normal) but the real kick was forgetting that because I was no longer in the main channel the markers swapped sides.

Oops.
Fortunately I wasn't going fast and it was a rising tide so I could pretend I meant to stop there for a bit. And about an hour later the tide came in enough for me to get across and into the channel.

Seaweed didn't lean -- and I tried to put in a Hazard into Active Captain as a 'head's up' but it was rejected. I guess everyone else is smarter than I was that day.

Anyway, if you do decide to go into Pearl Bayou (under the flight pattern for Tyndale Air Force base) don't forget to watch those markers. And have a nice fly-boys movie to watch on the DVD player too.

It was a nice spot. There was an Island Packet anchored near me too. a double cabin (Chris Craft?) couldn't get their (inadequately sized/all rope rode) anchor to hold.
Not sure why anybody would head out on boat into unfamiliar waters without studying and having a paper chart close by. Before I go anywhere, familiar or not, I study the chart of the area I'll be cruising. I have too much time and money invested in my boat to take that risk. In addition, I check tides. FYI, all inlets and shipping channels have red on right on return. This means if you are traveling north and you enter a shipping lane/inlet and the aicw follows this channel for a while, the reds will be on the starboard side and once you exit and are only traveling on the aicw they will flip back. This is why it is important to study the charts in advance for the areas you are traveling.
__________________
Tracy & Susie Hellman 1985 Ta Chiao CT 35
Twin Lehman Super 90's Westerbeke 4.4kw
Lightkeepers Marina -Little River, SC
windmill29130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 10:11 AM   #158
Guru
 
ulysses's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Shores, Ala.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ulysses
Vessel Model: Romsdal 1963
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 876
Earlier posts have dealt with the color and shapes found on the aids to navigation and those that indicate ICW. What has yet to be mentioned are the numbers that you also find on those aids. Concerning the above mentioned St. Andrews Sound /Panama City Area, if my memory serves me correctly (it often does not) the number sequence also changes which should indicate that you are running an entrance channel and not just the ICW, I think the numbers between the bridge and the outlet/entrance are based upon the sea buoy (#1) . That should at least give a heads up. Increasing numbers traveling west on the ICW then descending number going outbound through St. Andrews Sound.
What I have never figured out though is when they change the numbers to start over at 1 on the ICW, it might be the Coast Guard's region or state lines.

dan
ulysses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 01:10 PM   #159
Guru
 
janice142's Avatar
 
City: St. Pete, FL
Country: USofA
Vessel Name: Seaweed
Vessel Model: Schucker mini-trawler
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 914
Send a message via AIM to janice142 Send a message via MSN to janice142 Send a message via Yahoo to janice142 Send a message via Skype™ to janice142
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill29130 View Post
Not sure why anybody would head out on boat into unfamiliar waters without studying and having a paper chart close by. Before I go anywhere, familiar or not, I study the chart of the area I'll be cruising. I have too much time and money invested in my boat to take that risk. In addition, I check tides. FYI, all inlets and shipping channels have red on right on return. This means if you are traveling north and you enter a shipping lane/inlet and the aicw follows this channel for a while, the reds will be on the starboard side and once you exit and are only traveling on the aicw they will flip back. This is why it is important to study the charts in advance for the areas you are traveling.
You are absolutely correct windmill and as a matter of fact I do use paper charts and had mine open. I'd even marked where the switch occurred and was fine and dandy UNTIL in a moment of "oh that looks like a nice little anchorage back there" I forgot that heading into that bayou meant the markers went back the other way.

And I touched bottom. No harm/no foul and it's wonderful how well you manage. I've been aground before and anticipate doing so again. I'm not perfect.

And yes, the larger Maptech chartkit was out along with the smaller Kettlewell's for the Gulf coast. Plus OpenCPN running on the netbook.
__________________
Janice aboard Seaweed, living the good life afloat...
http://janice142.com
janice142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 01:26 PM   #160
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
Janice, I think you had fallen prey to a malady that many of us suffer. When we think the trip is in the bag we can tend to get careless. I have to really watch myself about this. It is easy to think, "well I'm here", but not quite there yet. Especially at the end of the day screw ups can come from fatigue. A long day at the helm requires constant attention. That along with noises and vibration can make your more tired than you think you are.
__________________

__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012