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Old 11-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #181
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A small update and some good news. The electrical wizard I've hired has found the issue with the inverter/charger. There was a blown .25 ah frog hair fuse buried deep inside that's been replaced. I now have a couple of spares. The unit now passes bench testing and is currently installed and charging away, which is a massive relief.

I'm going to let everything charge up for a day or two and have them do a load test of my house bank to see what kind of shape it's in. If it needs replacement, I may as well do it while I'm here.

The list got smaller today! Hurray! lol.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:53 AM   #182
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whoot whoot whoot!!!

That will be a big relief for you, glad you have some forward progress!
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:59 AM   #183
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The Adventures of Sylphide

Excellent news! Yeah agree with checking out the house and replacing if weak. When I first bought my boat the house bank was weak and it caused all kinds of problems. Plus my thruster is wired to the house bank. I replaced my tired old batteries with 4- 125ah AGM Lifelines and they have been good 5 years so far. The bank got way down to 18% when in the Bahamas after the hurricane and they seem to have recovered.

Do you work two weeks on, two off? Just wondering about the time needed to get to Florida and how you manage that.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:04 AM   #184
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Awesome!!!!
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:55 PM   #185
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A small update and some good news. The electrical wizard I've hired has found the issue with the inverter/charger. There was a blown .25 ah frog hair fuse buried deep inside that's been replaced. I now have a couple of spares. The unit now passes bench testing and is currently installed and charging away, which is a massive relief.

I'm going to let everything charge up for a day or two and have them do a load test of my house bank to see what kind of shape it's in. If it needs replacement, I may as well do it while I'm here.

The list got smaller today! Hurray! lol.
Wifey B:



Amazing how bringing in the right guy to help, the wizard as opposed to Speedy, can do for one. While DIY is a worthwhile objective for many, it's always wise to know when using an expert is expeditious and can be a matter of great relief.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:29 PM   #186
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whoot whoot whoot!!!

That will be a big relief for you, glad you have some forward progress!

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Awesome!!!!


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Wifey B:

Amazing how bringing in the right guy to help, the wizard as opposed to Speedy, can do for one. While DIY is a worthwhile objective for many, it's always wise to know when using an expert is expeditious and can be a matter of great relief.
Amen. This particular wizard has been worth his weight in tiny, tiny little fuses.

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Excellent news! Yeah agree with checking out the house and replacing if weak. When I first bought my boat the house bank was weak and it caused all kinds of problems. Plus my thruster is wired to the house bank. I replaced my tired old batteries with 4- 125ah AGM Lifelines and they have been good 5 years so far. The bank got way down to 18% when in the Bahamas after the hurricane and they seem to have recovered.

Do you work two weeks on, two off? Just wondering about the time needed to get to Florida and how you manage that.

Yeah, I'm definitely leaning toward AGMs if I need to replace, but hopefully I can get some more life out of these ones. We'll see I guess. I usually work four weeks on, four off. I'm due off the boat a few days before Christmas, and I'm planning on hanging out with family back home until after the first of the year. After that, being the end of the shipping season, my regular schedule tends to go out the window. I may end up going back out on another boat for a week or three. Either way, I should have more than enough time to get to Florida by the middle of February, but then, it's really not critical that I do anyway.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:46 PM   #187
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Some more diagnostic progress has been made in the engineering department aboard Sylphide. It's been determined that my house bank has died. It's passed on. It is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet it's maker. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies. It's metabolic processes are now 'istory. It's off the twig. It's kicked the bucket, shuffled off it's mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. It is an EX-Battery Bank.

At nearly ten years old, which is much older than I thought they were, I really can't fault them. I have therefore decided to replace said battery bank with Lifeline AGMs of the same capacity.

I've also made some progress regarding my generator issue. I have the utmost respect for the PO of this boat. He really built a hell of a craft. His craftsman's eye, and pathological attention to detail manifest themselves in thousands of ways. One uncharacteristic misstep I have found though, is the way the exhaust is run from the generator to the ship's side. It's a straight run. There's no loop or elbow between the seacock and the exhaust manifold. To his credit, the PO did tell me that I'd need to make sure that seacock was closed whenever the generator wasn't running, and thoroughly explained why. Unfortunately, I failed to do so before venturing out into the sloppy Delaware Bay. After a few minutes of getting my ass handed to me, I realized my mistake, but there was no way I could step away from the helm long enough to close the seacock safely, and by then, it's likely the damage would have already been done anyway.

Long story short, I got seawater into my generator cylinder. It wasn't running at the time, thankfully. I did try to start it once several hours after the fact, but it stalled quickly, and I decided not to tempt fate again. The techs I've consulted believe that there's a very good chance that it's salvageable, so we'll try to do so. In the process, I'm going to have them rework the exhaust so as to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

While this pit stop will be expensive, I'm surprisingly not too bent out of shape about it. Actually quite the opposite. Both of these issues, especially the batteries, were giving me continual low grade anxiety, and it will be a relief to know I have fresh and reliable equipment under my feet. It actually feels pretty good to know I'm improving the boat.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:58 PM   #188
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So the batts have gone the way of the Norwegian Blue. Do they share a charger, are the other batts AGM? Or close enough not to matter?
You were wise not to try too hard to start the genset. I once got water past the muffler into a 1 cyl Volvo on a sailboat, exhaust exited on the side which was well under water while we were on our ear for several hours,I broke the crankshaft trying to start it. Hope it`s fixable.
Way better finding what the issues are, you can have a go at fixing them and make progress.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:50 PM   #189
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Yup it feels good when you get the chance to do your own improvements. Now she will sure enough feel like your rig and she gonna show you love for it . These boats have a heart also.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:24 PM   #190
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Happy to hear the fixes are at hand. Further, perhaps beneficial to be off site for a bit while the issues get resolved.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:02 PM   #191
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Glad you are making progress. Keep punching at it.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:25 PM   #192
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Progress!

Sorry to hear about the batteries, but I had a hunch. You will be surprised how much better the all boat systems will operate with fresh batteries.

As to the generator, I had a similar issue when I inadvertently got some water in the cylinders while trying to flush it (long stupid story), but I was able to remove the injectors and turn it over and shoot the water out. Oiled the cylinders up, reinstalled the injectors and it fired right up and running great since. So all is not lost there.

Ainít boating a blast!
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:29 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post
It's been determined that my house bank has died. It's passed on. It is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet it's maker. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies. It's metabolic processes are now 'istory. It's off the twig. It's kicked the bucket, shuffled off it's mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. It is an EX-Battery Bank.
I'm sure that short paragraph has does not begin to convey the difficult time you had convincing your technician....


But now we know just one more piece of the puzzle of why you fell in love with Sylphide. I looked back at your for sale and earlier pics, and I was surprised I hadn't noticed it before....

Click image for larger version

Name:	Sylphide For Sale 1.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	77.9 KB
ID:	96688


Click image for larger version

Name:	1985 MetalCraft Custom 44 Motor Yacht Image 17a.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	112.4 KB
ID:	96689


Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1516.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	138.2 KB
ID:	96690


...and in case you don't have a set for the boat, here is a mug I found on amazon....

Click image for larger version

Name:	41dY+eq-gcL.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	24.4 KB
ID:	96691

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Old 11-20-2019, 11:31 PM   #194
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(and my apologies to mom, but her shoulder was the only place the parrot would fit!)
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:51 PM   #195
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Seriously though, we need to get you up to speed - you PROBABLY should have been expecting the batteries to be at end of life. Even the best cared for banks I've been hearing our members talk about last about that long.

You might want to think about the long term battery/charging setup you have. When we bought NWD we knew the batteries were at end of life, and factored that into our purchase. (The PO told us they were toast.) We arrived to get the keys with a new set of house batteries. But we also had the idea that the bank size might be too small for our usage pattern. A younger, tech savvy family tends to use way more juice than a retired couple in their 70's. We quickly determined we did - although I was figuring with pencil and paper because I put the cart before the horse and figured out my battery bank upgrade before I installed the new battery bank monitor. (I did ok, we have repeatedly seen about 180 Ah/day in our 840 Ah bank, close to where I had hoped to be. I would have to do some serious soul searching and relocate the bank to another area of the boat if I wanted to increase it any more - I'm out of space where it is, so 840 Ah (new) is it for us. Solar will help stretch that capacity as we'll really only need overnight capacity, not 24 hr capacity. That should change our daily bank draw considerably during our summer cruising.

I bring this up because you may find your usage patterns / needs different from what your PO felt was needed and you might need more battery capacity. Since you're in a (probably) intensive phase of learning about your charging system it would be a good time to start your mind wandering down this path. There's no rush, but you may find that once you have the operational problems fixed more need to dial in your boat's systems.

I've found battery capacity/solar is a bit of a rabbit hole, but as I'm getting to the end I'm very happy with where we are going to end up. A good chunk of change in lead, chargers, (and soon, alternators), solar charge controllers and panels, and we will basically be set for rare generator use but somewhat generous electrical use (for a boat.)

Sorry to hear about the genset exhaust. Really good to hear your attitude with having the exhaust permanently fixed to prevent that. I would agree that having to remember to close a valve in that piece if equipment every time you use it (or move the boat) is ridiculous, especially a seacock valve for an exhaust. I can see closing raw water intakes for the genset and main when leaving the boat for a long time like you do...

I would agree uncharacteristic for how the boat seems to have been found and maintained. Hopefully there's room for a proper loop? Sounds like you already have professionals on it. Keep us posted, I'm not seeing any photos of all this?!
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:52 AM   #196
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So the batts have gone the way of the Norwegian Blue. Do they share a charger, are the other batts AGM? Or close enough not to matter?
You were wise not to try too hard to start the genset. I once got water past the muffler into a 1 cyl Volvo on a sailboat, exhaust exited on the side which was well under water while we were on our ear for several hours,I broke the crankshaft trying to start it. Hope it`s fixable.
Way better finding what the issues are, you can have a go at fixing them and make progress.
That's exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to avoid. I don't know much about much, but I know if you get non-compressable seawater into your cylinder, and then try to compress it, things can go 'ping!'

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Yup it feels good when you get the chance to do your own improvements. Now she will sure enough feel like your rig and she gonna show you love for it . These boats have a heart also.
And now she'll have some shiny new valves in that heart.

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Happy to hear the fixes are at hand. Further, perhaps beneficial to be off site for a bit while the issues get resolved.
Yessir, I'm back on the big boat for the next month. Happy to have things being addressed while I'm away.

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Glad you are making progress. Keep punching at it.
The list is getting shorter!

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Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
Progress!

Sorry to hear about the batteries, but I had a hunch. You will be surprised how much better the all boat systems will operate with fresh batteries.

As to the generator, I had a similar issue when I inadvertently got some water in the cylinders while trying to flush it (long stupid story), but I was able to remove the injectors and turn it over and shoot the water out. Oiled the cylinders up, reinstalled the injectors and it fired right up and running great since. So all is not lost there.

Ainít boating a blast!
Yeah, that's about what we think will need to happen. The seawater will have spent a few days in there, so there may be some flash rust, but hopefully nothing that will need more than a scuff with a scotch brite pad to get rid of.

'Get a boat!' they said! 'It'll be fun!' they said! lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by fractalphreak View Post
I'm sure that short paragraph has does not begin to convey the difficult time you had convincing your technician....


But now we know just one more piece of the puzzle of why you fell in love with Sylphide. I looked back at your for sale and earlier pics, and I was surprised I hadn't noticed it before....

Attachment 96688


Attachment 96689


Attachment 96690


...and in case you don't have a set for the boat, here is a mug I found on amazon....

Attachment 96691

Lol, that's cute The tech kept trying to convince me that the batteries were just tired from having a good squawk, or that they were just pining for the fjords.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fractalphreak View Post
Seriously though, we need to get you up to speed - you PROBABLY should have been expecting the batteries to be at end of life. Even the best cared for banks I've been hearing our members talk about last about that long.

Yeah, I probably should have looked a little closer at that. I guess the issue didn't start to manifest itself until I started spending days away from shore power, which took a while. The batteries were holding enough of a charge to last as long as I needed until then. Oh well, now I know.

You might want to think about the long term battery/charging setup you have. When we bought NWD we knew the batteries were at end of life, and factored that into our purchase. (The PO told us they were toast.) We arrived to get the keys with a new set of house batteries. But we also had the idea that the bank size might be too small for our usage pattern. A younger, tech savvy family tends to use way more juice than a retired couple in their 70's. We quickly determined we did - although I was figuring with pencil and paper because I put the cart before the horse and figured out my battery bank upgrade before I installed the new battery bank monitor. (I did ok, we have repeatedly seen about 180 Ah/day in our 840 Ah bank, close to where I had hoped to be. I would have to do some serious soul searching and relocate the bank to another area of the boat if I wanted to increase it any more - I'm out of space where it is, so 840 Ah (new) is it for us. Solar will help stretch that capacity as we'll really only need overnight capacity, not 24 hr capacity. That should change our daily bank draw considerably during our summer cruising.

I bring this up because you may find your usage patterns / needs different from what your PO felt was needed and you might need more battery capacity. Since you're in a (probably) intensive phase of learning about your charging system it would be a good time to start your mind wandering down this path. There's no rush, but you may find that once you have the operational problems fixed more need to dial in your boat's systems.

I've found battery capacity/solar is a bit of a rabbit hole, but as I'm getting to the end I'm very happy with where we are going to end up. A good chunk of change in lead, chargers, (and soon, alternators), solar charge controllers and panels, and we will basically be set for rare generator use but somewhat generous electrical use (for a boat.)

From what I can tell, the Freedom 2500/130 Inverter/charger should be up to the task and compatible for the new bank. The old bank was 6*250 Amp Hours, and will be replaced with the same capacity. 1500 amp hours should be more than enough hopefully. I would like to add some solar down the line, but for now I'm going to plan on using the genny to stretch out my anchorings. The thing only has 130 hours on it, I might as well get my money's worth. I've got plenty of fuel capacity.

Sorry to hear about the genset exhaust. Really good to hear your attitude with having the exhaust permanently fixed to prevent that. I would agree that having to remember to close a valve in that piece if equipment every time you use it (or move the boat) is ridiculous, especially a seacock valve for an exhaust. I can see closing raw water intakes for the genset and main when leaving the boat for a long time like you do...

I would agree uncharacteristic for how the boat seems to have been found and maintained. Hopefully there's room for a proper loop? Sounds like you already have professionals on it. Keep us posted, I'm not seeing any photos of all this?!

I think the poorly laid out exhaust mainly comes down to the OP not ever using the generator, so not really putting any thought into it. He wasn't one to stay at anchor for very long, so he really didn't need it. There is plenty of room for a loop, though it may make for slightly less convenient passage through that portion of the engine room.
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Old 11-21-2019, 05:53 AM   #197
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At nearly ten years old, which is much older than I thought they were, I really can't fault them. I have therefore decided to replace said battery bank with Lifeline AGMs of the same capacity.

While this pit stop will be expensive, I'm surprisingly not too bent out of shape about it. Actually quite the opposite. Both of these issues, especially the batteries, were giving me continual low grade anxiety, and it will be a relief to know I have fresh and reliable equipment under my feet. It actually feels pretty good to know I'm improving the boat.
Now is maybe a good time to think ahead about whether the same battery capacity is enough, or whether you'd benefit from having more. Now is also the time to compare the 6V vs 12V options if your original bank is made up of all 12V batteries. Lifeline makes 6V AGMs, if you haven't already been giving that some thought...

When I'm in the diagnosis stage (i.e., wondering what the heck the problem is and what it's gonna take to fix it) I can come up with all sorts of nightmare. Once the source of a problem is positively identified, and a course of action laid out to fix it -- and I usually try to fix things better than they were when originally installed, if that's an option -- sleep returns.

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Old 11-21-2019, 08:31 AM   #198
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Now is maybe a good time to think ahead about whether the same battery capacity is enough, or whether you'd benefit from having more. Now is also the time to compare the 6V vs 12V options if your original bank is made up of all 12V batteries. Lifeline makes 6V AGMs, if you haven't already been giving that some thought...
If the necessary height is available and more capacity is desired, L16 6 volts are the best capacity vs footprint form factor I know of in a lead acid battery. But they're about 17" tall. Personally, I've got a pair of Mastervolt L16 AGMs (400ah) for a house bank, they've been rock solid for 2 seasons so far.
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Old 11-22-2019, 11:01 PM   #199
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Dang...Ö.I should have been following this list. I was in Cape May on the 16th and Annapolis on the 17th and 18th. Would have loved to lay my eyes on Sylphide and said hello to you. Glad to hear of the progress.
Crossed Delaware Bay late on the 16th, it was pretty sporty out there that day.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:37 AM   #200
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"The old bank was 6*250 Amp Hours, and will be replaced with the same capacity. 1500 amp hours should be more than enough"

I would say so, I didn't realize your bank was that large! For some reason I had it in my head you had a smaller capacity.
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