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Old 05-17-2013, 02:02 PM   #41
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The base price of the Coot when I ordered her in 2010, $200,000, was 71% of the current price. I added about $35K for options, and spent another $35K for shipping and import tax/duties, and an ungodly amount for state use/sales tax.
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:18 PM   #42
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Cut her loose on your keyboard, Mark. I'd love to read it, too!!
Al, I think you'd best have a private, face-to-face conversation with Perla next week. I don't believe Perla wants to put it in print.
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:21 PM   #43
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Me thinks, Marin, that a pretty face will turn your head every time.
Yes it will. Which is why I instantly dismiss any boat I see with reverse-raked widows. To me they are nowhere near pretty and I would never have one. I equate it aesthetically to driving a Yugo.

Doesn't mean I think they are bad boats. The Coot clearly is an excellent cruiser which is why I was interested to know how Mark went about choosing it.

But when I see a recreational boat with reverse raked windows, be it a Sea Sport or a Selene, what's the phrase? It's dead to me.

And I would never want a boat looks like it has to "struggle to move forward." That's a very good description, Walt, but I sure don't see it as a positive one.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:21 PM   #44
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Wait a minute. Don't you own a series Land Rover?
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:43 PM   #45
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Wait a minute. Don't you own a series Land Rover?
Yes, and the windows are raked back a bit and the fenders are rounded off. So even though it is basically square-shaped it still has elements that convey a look of forward motion. This is a 45-50 mph utility vehicle. There were no functional reasons to rake the windshield back and put rounded corners on the fenders that extended the length of the vehicle other than design aesthetics. The front of the vehicle is not raked forward, by the way. That's the effect of the wide angle lens.
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:38 PM   #46
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What do you mean, forward-leaning doesn't connote speed?






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Old 05-17-2013, 04:48 PM   #47
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And I would never want a boat looks like it has to "struggle to move forward." That's a very good description, Walt, but I sure don't see it as a positive one.
On second thought, I think you are correct. Perhaps "effortlessly" would have been a better choice of words. (Sorry, Mark...it certainly was not meant to offend.)
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:20 PM   #48
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Al, I think you'd best have a private, face-to-face conversation with Perla next week. I don't believe Perla wants to put it in print.
Jennifer either thus my para-phrasing.
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:21 PM   #49
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I didn't say a boat with reversed raked windows can't go fast. I said it's appearance (aesthetics) are not in harmony with the look of forward motion.

The second photo is irrelevant to the point because the design of the human body is completely different than that of a car, boat, plane, etc. The faster it wants to go the farther forward it needs to lean. The human equivalent of the reverse raked window aesthetics would be to have some part of the racer's bodies in your photo leaning backwards.
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:35 AM   #50
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Seahorse doesn't advertise. I was curious about Diesel Ducks so did an Internet search. Seahorse's website came up, so I visited the site and found out about the Coot there. Further Internet searches of the company and its owner Bill Kimley found favorable third-party comments. Had several telephone conversations with Kimley before deciding to order the boat.
Interesting your favorably dealing with Bill Kimley of Seahorse Marine. I meet him years ago thru a few emails we exchanged when he found some forum postings of mine on the subject of Motorsailers. He very much likes these type vessels, and at that time was going to start a production of one somewhere around 53-54 feet, monohull. Is wasn't too long after that he got started with the diesel Ducks instead. I had thought about visiting his yard since I was traveling back and forth to Thailand. I have always heard very positive things about this gentleman.

Its interesting also that he likes model trains. I never knew this. So happens I had some as a kid, and one time when I returned from working in SE Asia, I got hooked into going to a BIG layout convention. That was my downfall, I decided I would collect some for my old age. I've got way too many to put on a floating home .....boat. Had quite a layout at one time, but sold it when I thought I would move to Thailand full time...now in limbo about this hobby. I just like boats too much.

Bottom line as to why I wrote to you Mark. I assume your vessel is steel? If that is so, what comments would you offer to all of those naysayers about quality built modern steel vessels??....anti rust, maintenance, etc.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:43 AM   #51
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Marin in diguise?

Brian: I'm beginning to think that you are really Marin in disguise as your posts are carrying a similar finger print (look) as his. Am I right?
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:55 AM   #52
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Brian: I'm beginning to think that you are really Marin in disguise as your posts are carrying the same signature (look) as his. Am I right?
Clever call Walt! Will the real Marin please stand up!!
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:56 AM   #53
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...

Its interesting also that he (Bill Kimley) likes model trains.

... I assume your vessel is steel? If that is so, what comments would you offer to all of those naysayers about quality built modern steel vessels??....anti rust, maintenance, etc.
I'm in and out of the model railroad hobby too. Here I'm pictured at a fellow modeler's layout representing the Northwestern Pacific line from Petaluma and some miles northward.



The Coot is made of steel. It's strong and makes a low-production boat more affordable. Paint maintenance cannot be ignored, however. I have touch-up painting done as well as having fixed some painting defects. One has a separate set of worries compared to plastic boats, like I don't expect problems with water blisters and rotting deck cores.

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Old 08-18-2013, 11:30 AM   #54
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Brian: I'm beginning to think that you are really Marin in disguise as your posts are carrying a similar finger print (look) as his. Am I right?
Brian has a website in his signature the takes you to Running Tide Yachts on the other side of the country and the contact page is: Contact RunningTideYachts, Ltd.

So I doubt he is Marin............
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:37 AM   #55
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Brian: I'm beginning to think that you are really Marin in disguise as your posts are carrying a similar finger print (look) as his. Am I right?
I'm a different guy,...live part time Thailand, part time east coast near DC and Annapolis, Md
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:56 AM   #56
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I'm a different guy,...live part time Thailand, part time east coast near DC and Annapolis, Md
And part time on BoatDEsign.net.

Brian after the discussion on the Great Harbors I spent some time on the extensive thread on Dutch Barges as cruising boats. That is a great thread and you are there. AND I'm glad you are here.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:53 PM   #57
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And part time on BoatDEsign.net.
Don't remind me how much time I use to spend there ,....my Thai wife (relatively new) reminds me all the time of my 'excessive time on the computer'

Quote:
Brian after the discussion on the Great Harbors I spent some time on the extensive thread on Dutch Barges as cruising boats. That is a great thread and you are there. AND I'm glad you are here.
Thanks, I'll try to be a good asset.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:18 PM   #58
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Pilothouse "trawlers" appealed to me such as Arctic and Nordic Tugs, but the Coot had more of the qualities I was looking for.
So please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't seem to pick out another single-engined (diesel) full displacement boat under 40' in production. I know the reasons why most 'trawlers' between 25' and 40' are semi-displacement rather than true full displacement (race to the hook), but if one wanted a new boat and didn't need/want to get up on plane, the Coot seems to be the only alternative to the semi-displacement (and far more expensive) Nordics and ATs, no?

I've read here all the reasons why one would want to get up and go fast, but the difference between a boat with 85hp and one with 330hp would have to show up in the purchase price and at the dock, no?

Am I missing anything? Are there other full displacement boats under 40' in production I'm missing? I suppose the smallest Diesel Duck would also qualify, but it's more of a passagemaker than a coastal cruiser.

The new boats of today are the used boats of tomorrow, so I'm hoping Bill keeps churning out Coots and DDs for some time!!
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:39 PM   #59
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So please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't seem to pick out another single-engined (diesel) full displacement boat under 40' in production. I know the reasons why most 'trawlers' between 25' and 40' are semi-displacement rather than true full displacement (race to the hook), but if one wanted a new boat and didn't need/want to get up on plane, the Coot seems to be the only alternative to the semi-displacement (and far more expensive) Nordics and ATs, no?

I've read here all the reasons why one would want to get up and go fast, but the difference between a boat with 85hp and one with 330hp would have to show up in the purchase price and at the dock, no?

Am I missing anything? Are there other full displacement boats under 40' in production I'm missing? I suppose the smallest Diesel Duck would also qualify, but it's more of a passagemaker than a coastal cruiser.
I had some somewhat similar questions. In some correspondence with a broker up in the Mich area, I wrote:
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Originally Posted by brian
Thanks for those observations Mike. When you mentioned the Lord Nelsen Tug, you were saying that it DID NOT represent a viable idea, is that correct?

I actually find that too many of the trawler designs in this size range tend to put a master staterm in that stern area rather than the BIG saloon and aft deck that most Pilgrim have. I make mention of that here on a forum,....and there are a few good photos of the saloons and aft decks of the Pilgrims
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/ultimate-trawler-9123-8.html

We can certainly put a little higher HP 6 cyl engine in as an option and push her a little faster, but going the dual engine route that a lot of the Nordic Tugs do doesn't make economic sense with the way fuel prices are going, and the cost added by a second power plant and running gear (and a more exposed prop situation) Either of these size boats are going to have the same displacement hull-speed limitations. If one whats to push them a little faster into the semi-planning mode, then they will pay for it with the extra fuel economy. No free lunches here.

I do feel that the single engine configuration makes all the difference in the world in a number of different aspects.

What I am really unsure about is how well these would sell as a new boat at this particular time considering the 'glut' of used trawlers I seem to see at this time, and their ever lower pricing??

I think I am going to continue to research the project to build such a vessel in the most economical manner, but wait to make any commitment to go forward with the actually building until I have at least 2-3 committed clients (maybe one of them me).

But I appreciate your observations, and will gladly accept more if they come to your mind.

Regards, Brian
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It was interesting to read your email and the response of a previous Pilgrim 40 client. If I may interject one other idea...I believe the Pilgrim, while a cool design with a dedicated following, doesn't exactly translate well into todays marketplace. If you look at the Nordic Tugs you'll see that while similar in nature...are considerably faster while burning an acceptable amount of fuel. From my perspective (that of a Broker that represents many boats and models) it is too slow and doesn't have the guts to go upriver in or across bars under less than ideal conditions. The Nordic Tugs will.

So while the Vinette was not a fast boat either, it did have plenty of power (Cummins 220B) to get you out of bad situations while still returning an acceptable fuel burn.

I do believe you have a valid concept (inexpensive and easy to build) but in todays world it needs to somewhat faster than the Pilgrim. Another boat that I don't believe would fit todays changing customer would be the Lord Nelson Victory 37 Tug.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:56 AM   #60
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...

The new boats of today are the used boats of tomorrow, so I'm hoping Bill keeps churning out Coots and DDs for some time!!
My understanding is that Bill has two bare Coot hulls built (#s 7 and 8), but is awaiting firm orders while filling orders for his diesel ducks. Cormorant, Coot hull #5, might be available after its owners complete their SE Alaska venture this summer.

Coots #5 and #6 in November 2010:

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