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Old 08-02-2015, 05:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
It is weight, much more than beam that affects power required. But with more beam, goes more weight.


David
Yeah...the CD28 is only 8500 lbs...
I think the Westerbeke 100 option would have been about perfect but they seem pretty rare (with only 220 total built), but it seems more were built with the 200 hp Volvo..I would have bought the boat either way as it punches most of my buttons...:-)

Mines been re-powered with a newer Volvo "P" model. I can't complain!
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Old 08-02-2015, 05:39 PM   #22
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I completely muffed that comment up. It appears the 4.108 and 4.236 are parts galore. The 4.154 is the odd man out for parts and availability.
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Old 08-02-2015, 05:42 PM   #23
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David,
Indeed yes .... but still not as much as a SD or planing. The worst of the worst is a really heavy and fat planing or SD boat.

One of the really beneficial features of older boats. Lighter (made of wood) and narrower. Also they lacked lots of trinkets like gen sets ... = weight.
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:25 PM   #24
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Heron,

Beautiful CD 28 and a very pretty interior. I've looked at two (one with the Volvo 200 and one with the Westerbeke 100) and they were pretty shabby. The Prairie I looked over also looked kinda shabby. That's a turnoff for my XYL (Wife), especially when it's combined with basic "red flags" that I detect.

You've done something really nice to the teak. What is it? A cleaner, varnish, some magic elixir, fanatic scrubbing with a toothbrush?

-- Tom
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cappy208 View Post
I completely muffed that comment up. It appears the 4.108 and 4.236 are parts galore. The 4.154 is the odd man out for parts and availability.
I think you're right, Cappy. That's what led to Al changing out his 4.154 for a 4.236 recently.

Upgrade to Perkins 4-236 from 4-154

I love my 4.236's. No parts problems and (knock on wood) not much need for them either! Yes, I had to replace the exhaust elbows and flanges but I knew that when I bought the boat. Oh...and a manifold on the stbd side.

In my zeal to clean the manifold gasket area, I thought I'd try to chip away a little carbon buildup that was visible. The tool slipped and I punched a hole in the wall separating the raw water from the exhaust gasses. It was all part of a bigger repair project that got submitted to the insurance company, Zurich. Thanks to my insurance coverage, costs were covered so it turned out to be a good-but-not-expensive lesson.

The whole experience sort of transpired like this...

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Old 08-02-2015, 06:34 PM   #26
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Heron,

Beautiful CD 28 and a very pretty interior. I've looked at two (one with the Volvo 200 and one with the Westerbeke 100) and they were pretty shabby. The Prairie I looked over also looked kinda shabby. That's a turnoff for my XYL (Wife), especially when it's combined with basic "red flags" that I detect.

You've done something really nice to the teak. What is it? A cleaner, varnish, some magic elixir, fanatic scrubbing with a toothbrush?

-- Tom
Thanks! The interior is original '88 vintage from what I can determine, with maybe a coat of varnish to refresh. The boat was well cared for. Exterior is seatol..
Good ones are out there, but expect to pay $$$. Check Yachtworld. I found mine locally before it hit the brokers and feel lucky there. Nicely equipped (AC, AP, Bow thruster, Radar etc.), Nicely maintained...all for below market..
All my albums on improvements and mods since buying it in November:
http://public.fotki.com/ttschwing/cape-dory-28-trawler/
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Old 08-02-2015, 09:41 PM   #27
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@FlyWright: How did you loosen the flanges up? Mine is fairly solid now. But until I ran it for 20 hours it blew gas past. I see it is 4 or 5 bolts into the back of the heat exchanger. Did you use heat, pblaster or just torque? or all of the above. That's another thing on my list sometime.....


However, I'm not so sure It should be battened down. The pipe coming out of it is over a foot long. Quite a lever arm to vibrate. Maybe 'loose' is not a bad thing. I wrapped it tightly in fiberglass exhaust wrap. Hasn't been bad since. Hate to make a bigger issue than it is.
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Old 08-02-2015, 09:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cappy208 View Post
@FlyWright: How did you loosen the flanges up? Mine is fairly solid now. But until I ran it for 20 hours it blew gas past. I see it is 4 or 5 bolts into the back of the heat exchanger. Did you use heat, pblaster or just torque? or all of the above. That's another thing on my list sometime.....


However, I'm not so sure It should be battened down. The pipe coming out of it is over a foot long. Quite a lever arm to vibrate. Maybe 'loose' is not a bad thing. I wrapped it tightly in fiberglass exhaust wrap. Hasn't been bad since. Hate to make a bigger issue than it is.
Four bolts on the corners on mine. PB Blaster and a socket wrench, but they weren't hard to remove. The exhaust manifold was more problematic.

Got a pic of your exhaust plumbing aft of the exhaust elbow? Mine has a flexible elbow to connect to the fiberglass exhaust plumbing.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:12 PM   #29
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Prairie 29 engines

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ID:	42776this is looking down from top. Flange, 2" street el, 14" galv pipe, 2" street el, then water injection which is just out of sight to right. The black hose goes to injection elbow with a t to pss.

And yes. That IS carpet on the deck! Makes for quite a civilized oil change! Which reminds me. The best thing I did was to install a Kwik Valve on the engine. I had to buy their adapter/extension to let valve clear oil pan ribs. But WELL worth it. I'll have to get a pic of that next time I go down to boat. IIRC that was 35 bucks for both. Very easy oil change. Clean and neat.
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:38 AM   #30
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Hi, guys

My reaction to the 4-108 in a Prairie-29 is the same as most: Sounds like it might be underpowered, but I haven't been on one, so it's just a guess.

I just acquired a -29 with a Perkins 6-354T, 200 hp. It's a big, heavy lump of iron, in an already heavy boat, so it's definitely no speed demon. But, it'll do 7-1/2 knots at 1400 rpm which makes it very quiet. I don't know the fuel burn yet. I brought her up from Mystic CT to the Narragansett Bay at 8-1/2 knots at 4 gph over a 7-1/2 hour run. I don't know the RPM we were using because the tachometer wasn't working (among other things).

This boat was shorn of 'er flying bridge for some reason. It's OK with me, as I prefer the inner wheel house, with the ability to spread a proper chart, etc. So, right now I'm organizing all the little "to-do" items that need attending to.

I don't know enough of the history of the boat to know if it was built with the 6-354. If it was, then whoever did the upgrade did a proper job, as the shaft, wheel, stern tube, etc were all upgraded. It appears to be "over-propped" because it has too much prop to reach 2500 rpm, and blows black smoke when it's in the corner. But, it allows cruising at a lower rpm with lower noise and fuel burn, so for the moment at least, I'm happy.

It may be an old lump of iron, but it runs OK, doesn't leak (which is unusual for Perkins' of this vintage) and runs quieter than a Cummins B-series.

Only about 20 hours on 'er so far, plus the 1300+ on the clock.

Onward!

J.S.
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:46 AM   #31
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Well damn!!! I have never heard of a P29 with a 6354!!! How fast does it go at WOT???? It should plane since it is a semi planing hull. I do know when Atlantic took over they did do boats with twin 115hp Volvos on the same hull. I would not envy that engine space. Anyway, has the boat had extensive interior additions or customizations??? The only reason I ask is that there was one down here with the fly bridge off of it that had an "eccentric" interior. It was actually pretty well done but very different!

And quieter than a CUmmins????...NO WAY!!!!....
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:56 AM   #32
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Yes, I think the interior was re-done. The galley is up to port, and there's a small stateroom below, just forward of the helm, with a bunk that only measures 5'-9" long.

Does this sound like the boat you saw?

As far as Cummins engines go, I'm a HUGE fan of them for all purposes other than boats. That's just because they're too damn loud, at least the older 12-valve ones. The newer 24-valve ones are a completely different ball game. Cummins company is an American success story, competing with all the other manufacturers all over the world and winning because their machines are dependable, economical and durable, and they have good customer support. Who said Americans can't build stuff?

...but the 12-valve B-series make too much noise for my taste. YMMV, of course.
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:12 PM   #33
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Yes, I think the interior was re-done. The galley is up to port, and there's a small stateroom below, just forward of the helm, with a bunk that only measures 5'-9" long.

Does this sound like the boat you saw?

As far as Cummins engines go, I'm a HUGE fan of them for all purposes other than boats. That's just because they're too damn loud, at least the older 12-valve ones. The newer 24-valve ones are a completely different ball game. Cummins company is an American success story, competing with all the other manufacturers all over the world and winning because their machines are dependable, economical and durable, and they have good customer support. Who said Americans can't build stuff?

...but the 12-valve B-series make too much noise for my taste. YMMV, of course.
That is a standard layout. The one I was referring to had a teak headliner and also had a diesel heater in the fore peak that was surrounded by a tile semi enclosure.

And I was just messing with you on the Cummins. Mine are pretty damn quiet though. So much so that I have a hard time hearing them to sync them.
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Old 10-13-2015, 02:47 PM   #34
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My 30' 8 ton trawler only burns 1 GPH instead of 4. I would guess you're fuel burn should be 1.5 to 1.8 gph .... taking into consideration that it's a SD hull not FD. My Willard originally had the 107/108 Perkins engine and the replacement I chose is exactly the same size .. even the same bore and stroke. A new Japanese engine v/s an old British engine. Both burn almost exactly the same fuel though.
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Old 10-13-2015, 03:02 PM   #35
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My 30' 8 ton trawler only burns 1 GPH instead of 4. I would guess you're fuel burn should be 1.5 to 1.8 gph .... taking into consideration that it's a SD hull not FD. My Willard originally had the 107/108 Perkins engine and the replacement I chose is exactly the same size .. even the same bore and stroke. A new Japanese engine v/s an old British engine. Both burn almost exactly the same fuel though.
My 9500 lb. Cape dory with a 200 hp Volvo burns <2 GPH at a 7 knot cruise...
SD hull... Will max out at 16 knots at WOT but rarely if ever sees that speed..
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Old 10-13-2015, 03:37 PM   #36
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The Cummins 12v B motor is loud. And the surprising reason is: Timing gears!!! They have a bad case of lash rattle that is louder than combustion noise. Same with the C motor, like I own. Open the oil fill cap on the timing gear housing and it sounds like it is grinding gravel!! Just noise though, does not harm anything. The 24v Q series took care of this. QQQQQuiet.

Not sure how Perkins did it, but that 354 at low revs is also quiet. No, or very little lash rattle. I love the sound of those old beasts.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:42 PM   #37
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My 9500 lb. Cape dory with a 200 hp Volvo burns <2 GPH at a 7 knot cruise...
SD hull... Will max out at 16 knots at WOT but rarely if ever sees that speed..
Yes that's about what I would expect. I think a GB or a NT 32 would run 7 knots on 2 gph.
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:54 AM   #38
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My guess is that I'll use ~ 2gph @ 7-1/2 knots using 1400 rpm. One disadvantage of that much-larger-than-needed engine is that at low power it's using a disproportionate quantity of fuel just keeping itself turning rather than moving the boat.

A friends Marine Trader 40 uses 1.8 gph at 7 knots with his Isuzu 120 (4BG1-T) which I sold him six years ago. One upside is that in the cabin it's uber-quiet and from the flying bridge it's silent. It's like being propelled by an electric motor. I don't know what that boat weighs, but it's a lot.

OTOH, another friend's 32' Trojan used 23 gallons going 12 miles down & back the Taunton River to the battleship on his twin 454 Chevy's. That's why it spends most of the summer at the dock.

Onward!

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Old 10-16-2015, 09:11 PM   #39
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My Prairie 29' (hull # 6) has a 4-108. That engine is a 3600rpm max engine. She does 6.3 at 2550RPM. Burns about 1 gal per hour. She is quiet and smooth at that rpm, thus that's where she runs. The boat only has had two owners, never had the bottom stripped, got a lot of paint. hanging on. Gear is a 2.91 Velvet drive LH, prop is a 18x12 three blade. No problem getting parts, easy to work on.


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Old 10-16-2015, 09:35 PM   #40
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Sortie,
The Perkins 4-108 is a 3000rpm engine in any boat application I've heard of. It's Frequiently found overpropped in original condition w older boats. My 4-107 (same engine except it has removable liners) was originally equiped w an 18x14 prop. WOT at 2750. I took out an inch of pitch and it ran 3000 at WOT. The Perkins is 36hp at 3000rpm, 40hp at 3600rpm and 50 at 4000. I really don't know if they change the maximum amount of fuel or what for the three different ratings.

My present engine is an S4L2 Mitsubishi. Same bore and stroke as the Perkins .. 78X92. Close to the same engine.
My gear is 2.57-1 and it burns about 1gph. I cruise at 6.15 knots almost always and occasionally 2500.
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