Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-16-2014, 12:41 PM   #1
Member
 
azubair's Avatar
 
City: Bellevue, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Zana Zu
Vessel Model: Sea Horse Marine Diesel Duck 50' Sedan
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8
Yearly Maintenance

I know the conventional wisdom is that we are to change the oil, oil filters, fuel filters and air filters every year, however i do not understand why we have to do this (I do it!). For example my engine (IVECO) manual says to change the oil/oil filter after 600hrs or yearly. I put only 200hrs on the engine last year and only about 20hrs on the genset (NL). I am in the PNW and routinely run the engines during the winter months for 1/2 hr or so every month. So why the need to change all the components yearly when the boat is not heavily used? Is this overkill? Changing the oil on my engine requires 12-14 ltrs.
__________________
Advertisement

azubair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 01:17 PM   #2
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. a. Welcome aboard. I think one of the reasons for the oil change based on calendar time as opposed to engine hours is to eliminate combustion by products and corrosives sitting against the metallic parts of the engine (bearings etc.) for a prolonged period of time. If one changed oil, as in your case, every 3 years (based on engine hours), your expensive parts would be sitting in an acidity increasing solution of oil for these extra 2 years.
__________________

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 01:37 PM   #3
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
The proper way to determine when to change your oil is by fluid analysis.

In your case I would not change the oil in the genset. And since your engine manufacturer recommend a change at 600 hrs. I would pull a sample and have it tested while changing just the filter. You may find that is all you have to do for the next couple of years.

The reality is that oil can last much, much long than many people want to believe. And with proper bypass filtration and analysis you can get hundreds of hours out it before the need to change it.

On the larger vessel I run I like to install bypass filters on my gensets, use synthetic oil and do oil analysis. With that combination I've gone years without changing oil.

On the mains I like to do analysis and go by those results as to when to change the oil.

On smaller private boat some of this may not be cost effective. But if you use your boat a lot and will be keeping it for a long time it could be,
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 01:37 PM   #4
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: East Greenwich, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,882
I have a different take. My suspicion is that the yearly oil change recommendation comes from northern climates where boats are used for 4-5 months and then put away for the season. Change the oil at the end of the season so that you have clean oil sitting there. I suspect with modern anticorrosion additives and low sulfur diesel, that recommendation is no longer valid.

I boat in a 9 month area (well the three summer months are pretty well wasted) so I change my oil on hours not the calendar.

David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 03:24 PM   #5
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,802
Rather than trying to out smart the engine and transmission manufacturers, I more or less just do what they say. Very nominal expense in the greater scheme of things especially given the criticality of the systems involved. And yes, I do oil analyses every change, including an interim on the transmissions, which leads to the "more or less" hedging within a very small variance.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 03:36 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
My 2 cents and worth much less.

Calendar based maintenance is no brainer easy to remember stuff for us low usage recreational boaters. In the big picture of small boats it's a small expense and cheap insurance.

On moderately larger boats than the majority of us forum dwellers typically own oil changes can easily run many hundreds to thousands of dollars and be a very large undertaking depending upon boat layout and how it is equipped. Getting away from the calendar and hour meter make complete sense to me then, but to each his own.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 04:26 PM   #7
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Rather than trying to out smart the engine and transmission manufacturers, I more or less just do what they say. Very nominal expense in the greater scheme of things especially given the criticality of the systems involved. And yes, I do oil analyses every change, including an interim on the transmissions, which leads to the "more or less" hedging within a very small variance.
I do exactly what they say. Now I've never had the issue of the time for an oil change coming before the hours so not faced this circumstance. I know we're often times replacing perfectly good oil, but then I take pleasure in finding out how good it is upon analysis.

If it was a large commercial or military ship, I'd be different. I had a friend who never changed the oil in his car. Not seldom, but never. He based that decision after supposedly serving on a submarine where they never changed oil. I would say not comparable and certainly wouldn't recommend taking it to his level.

Saying a year probably evolved from seasonality. One advantage is that you change in the off season, so you don't have to in the middle of next year's boating season.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 04:56 PM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Astral Blue's Avatar
 
City: California Delta
Country: Sacramento, CA
Vessel Name: Astral Blue
Vessel Model: Bayliner Victoria 2750 Command Bridge
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 71
Send a message via Yahoo to Astral Blue
Contrary to most people's beliefs, frequent oil changes are not necessary. I seldom change my oil. I replace filters often, but not the oil. I send the oil for an analysis; and if problems do not show up in it, I do not change it. I have over 300 hours on the current oil change. Two oil analyses into it, not a single issue. Here is some good reading:

Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy - Bob is the Oil Guy

Anecdotally speaking, I have yet to come across a single instance where an engine sustained damage due to the oil not being new enough. There are tons of examples of damage from engines running low on oil, contamination in oil, or an obstruction due to a dirty filter and faulty diverter valve, or oil pump malfunctioning...but not due to oil not being new enough.
__________________
Ed & Lindsey
California Delta

1977 Bayliner Victoria Astral Blue Repowered with Perkins 4.108 Diesel
Astral Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 06:51 PM   #9
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I had a friend who never changed the oil in his car. Not seldom, but never.

Whatever you do don't ever buy a car from him!

HOLLYWOOD


hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 06:58 PM   #10
Guru
 
Scary's Avatar
 
City: Walnut Grove Ca
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cary'D Away
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 884
Oil change

I had a few highway trucks and recommended oil change was based on usage. Standard local delivery was 33,000 mile interval. Highway was 100k or so. I had an old Detroit powered International dump truck that was used for dump runs and hauling dirt and road base around. It leaked so much oil I figured I effectively changed it once every 6 months, so I occasional changed the filters. Ran that old truck for 15 years, it always started and always got the job done. Far as I know it still has the original oil in it. I have been much better about my personal cars, mostly to satisfy warranty issues. I had several BMW's that were on their maintenance program, the oil change intervals varied based on the computer, my changes always were over 10k apart. It bothered me at first, the BMW service techs in their arrogance touted better BMW oil and filters. Well they may have been right about the oil, but the rest of the problems plagued those cars had to do with superior German engineering. I run block heaters in my Detroit's and change the oil every other year, about 300 hours. I am a big proponent for block heaters, even in temperate conditions. My engines rest at 90 degrees, keeps my engine room dry and corrosion free. My oil never cools enough to condensation in it. I suspect we all baby our boats more than we need to. My grandfather was plant manager for Chevrolet in the 50's, he maintained never change the oil only the filters, keep the cars appearance up and get rid of it every three years.
Cars must have been cheap in those days. I drive them until the paint falls off and the seats have holes in them. Never had a engine fail due to oil.
Scary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 07:04 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
When in the warranty period best do it by the book. There is no downside to book maintenance. If one is lazy or cheap the boat will suffer in all sorts of areas. A nice boat like a big diesel duck is an investment. Treat it right and the boat will reciprocate.

After many decades running big diesel fleets, my take away is ignore the basics and sooner or later problems arise. At some point you will sell the vessel. Then a prospective buyer will ask about maintenance. Not following the book will cost you much more than saving a few tens of dollars or sweat at this point.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 07:52 PM   #12
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Have my John Deere serviced annually which includes change of oil, oil filter, fuel filters, engine zincs, and so on. (Averaging 125 engine-hours a year.)



Welcome big brother Seahorse.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 08:10 PM   #13
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary View Post
. I had an old Detroit powered International dump truck that was used for dump runs and hauling dirt and road base around. It leaked so much oil I figured I effectively changed it once every 6 months, so I occasional changed the filters. Ran that old truck for 15 years, it always started and always got the job done. Far as I know it still has the original oil in it.
I think you know it didn't have the original oil in it. As you said, you effectively changed in every six months. And you did change the filters.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 11:04 AM   #14
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post

I had a friend who never changed the oil in his car. Not seldom, but never. He based that decision after supposedly serving on a submarine where they never changed oil.
Must've been a Sonar Tech...
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 11:41 AM   #15
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Must've been a Sonar Tech...
Or the galley where they never change the deep fryer oil either...or maybe that's what he meant...

After serving aboard several ships...I loved it when one executive officer at chow would announce "to rough to use the deep fryer today...no fries or whatever"...the next boat was..."too rough to follow the scheduled menu...the cooks have changed to deep fried chicken and fries tonight".

Much like TF issues...different capabilities and methods for different capts/crews.....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 12:45 PM   #16
Veteran Member
 
Twidget's Avatar
 
City: Delaware City, DE
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Used to love mid-rats after watch when the fries tasted like the fish from dinner.
Twidget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 01:20 PM   #17
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twidget View Post
Used to love mid-rats after watch when the fries tasted like the fish from dinner.
That's like the fish camps in NC and SC. Always fried. Fried fish, fried hushpuppies, fried fries. Oh and some have added fried chicken. Just one thing. Doesn't matter which it is, it's going to taste like fish. If one hasn't ever tried to eat chicken that tasted like fish, you've been fortunate. Basic rule: If you go to a fish camp, plan on eating fish.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 02:53 PM   #18
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by azubair View Post
I know the conventional wisdom is that we are to change the oil, oil filters, fuel filters and air filters every year,....So why the need to change all the components yearly when the boat is not heavily used?
Our oil and filter changes are based solely on hours. We use the boat year round, and if more than about a month goes by without our taking the boat out, we will run it in the slip.

NOTE: Idling the engine for a half hour or so is probably worse than not running it at all. The engine needs to get up to temperature and then held there for awhile. We run the engines separately, not together. We start the engine, let it warm up for a few minutes, then put it in gear and run it up to 1200-1400 rpm. Once the coolant temp is at the normal mark, we run the engine another 20 minutes. We used to run them together, one in forward and one in reverse to minimize the strain on the docklines. But when I mentioned this practice to the proprietor of one of the better marine gear shops in the area, he said not to do that because a BW Velvet Drive is not a very strong transmission in reverse. So we do the engines one at a time.

The FL120 manual calls for a 200 hour engine/filter change interval. We change them between 100 and 150 hours. I've never had a mechanic--- auto, aviation, or marine--- tell me that fresh oil is bad for an engine. And compared to all the other costs associated with boating, lube oil is free.

If an engine (any engine) is going to be laid up for a period of time--- several months or more-- then it's a good idea to change the oil prior to the layup, rather than leave dirty oil in it.

But on the advice of the people we know in the marine propulsion and generator diesel manufacturing industry, our intervals are based on engine hours only. Between my work schedule and the weather we don't get to take the boat out the boat as much as we'd like to. So it may be a year and a half or more between oil and filter changes. But the engines do get run one way or the other on a year round basis.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 03:01 PM   #19
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
We run the engines separately, not together. We start the engine, let it warm up for a few minutes, then put it in gear and run it up to 1200-1400 rpm. Once the coolant temp is at the normal mark, we run the engine another 20 minutes.

Between my work schedule and the weather we don't get to take the boat out the boat as much as we'd like to. So it may be a year and a half or more between oil and filter changes. But the engines do get run one way or the other on a year round basis.
If you have time to run them like this, why not take the boat out for a few minutes on that day instead? Even if just an hour?

I guess we got use to lake boating and boating after work and even if it was just an hour, we'd get out on the water. We see others who say it's too much work if not for the day. Not criticizing but both of us just trying to understand.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 03:52 PM   #20
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
If you have time to run them like this, why not take the boat out for a few minutes on that day instead? Even if just an hour?

Because the weather up here, particularly during the winter, is not always conducive to going out. Some people might get a kick out of being bashed around in Bellingham Bay in 30 knots winds and steep, closely-spaced 4 foot waves, but we aren't unless we absolutely have to.

And if we only have a few hours to spend up in Bellingham on a weekend day (we live 100 miles away and often these days can only spare one day to go up to the boat), the time it takes to deal with the ground-power cable, lines, window covers, etc., and then deal with them again an hour or so later plus hose the boat down, is not worth the effort. Easier and faster to simply run the engines in the slip while I write or we read or whatever.

But I agree, taking the boat out would be ideal if for no other reason than it cleans the slime off the bottom and spins the baby barnacles off the props.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012