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Old 02-19-2014, 06:38 AM   #41
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The secret to varnish is to keep re coating.

The charter boats in the Carib say,

De coat de month mon!
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:30 AM   #42
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Nine coats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain K View Post
Did an experiment 2 years back. Stripped to bare wood my badly weathered handrails, caprails, and other teak exterior trim. Used Epifanes on my port handrail and caprail. On the starboard side I used a good quality clear gloss varnish (with UV protection) purchased at Lowe's for less than half the price. Nine coats on each side using foam brushes. Results? Last spring after a year and a half in the brutal southern sun I could tell no difference whatever in the two sides. Both held up very well and looked sparkling. This past summer as a precaution I did a light sanding of everything with 200 grit paper and added 3 additional coats of the cheap stuff. My plan is to stay on top of it with annual recoatings. I did NOT follow the manufacturer's recommendations (wait 24-hours between coats); rather, I "hot coated," in other words added the follow-up coat as soon as the previous coat was dry enough not to come off when touched, but "sticky" feeling to the touch. Was able to get 3, sometimes 4 coats done in a day of good weather. For what it's worth amigos!
You got lucky with hot coating, You risk getting bubbles in following coats when you hot coat. Varnish applies layers that skin over and gas slowly through the skin. That's why even though it may feel dry it's necessary to follow the directions on the can. If you apply enough coats of any varnish and maintain it with maintenance coats every year most all of them will work.
If you were to neglect your finish for longer periods of time, Epifanes will hold up better. Sikkens holds up very good as well, I use it on swim platforms. I personally don't like the look. The Sikkens natural teak has enough pigment to hide flaws, if if you use too much it might as well be paint.
Staying on top of it is the key if you allow it to crack, it's too late. Recoating should be done well before any signs of failure in the finish.
Two part clear polyurethane finishes " whether marine or automotive over penetrating epoxy are the longest lasting by far. The marine polys can be brushed, most automotive two part have to sprayed. Very expensive to buy and when they fail much more difficult to remove.
Once moisture gets under any layered coating they will fail. This is why using penetrating epoxy under varnish extends the life of the coating.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:48 AM   #43
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After using Cetol (yech), Cetol Natural Teak (not bad), Dek Olje (didn`t last), and Epifanes. I`m sticking with Epifines. Looks good and lasts.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:25 PM   #44
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I'm w Cap K.

If you buy a good high end varnish 99% of your success will come from preparation and application.

There ain't no miracle Varnish.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:21 AM   #45
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If you live aboard in a damp place like FL , the life of any finish can be extended by wiping every AM with a chamois .

The dew forms drops on the surface which works like a magnifying glass and eats thry the best UV filters in the finish.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:09 AM   #46
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FF wrote;
"The dew forms drops on the surface which works like a magnifying glass and eats thry the best UV filters in the finish"

MicroUVology. That's far out FF. Glad we don't live in FL.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:01 AM   #47
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Glad we don't live in FL.

Your loss , 65F at 6 am , about 75F after lunch, Feb 22 !!!!!

Aint winter grand?
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:31 AM   #48
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Yea Fred it's 7am and we finally got some snow. About an inch but it's still coming down. Probably just stay home today. Or breakout the old Suburban 4WD and go to the bakery for coffee. It needs to go ... haven't driven it for two months.

So you've already forgotten about the polar vortex?
What's the temp and humidity in July Fred? I know you run away then.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:54 PM   #49
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Yea Fred it's 7am and we finally got some snow. About an inch but it's still coming down. Probably just stay home today. Or breakout the old Suburban 4WD and go to the bakery for coffee. It needs to go ... haven't driven it for two months.

So you've already forgotten about the polar vortex?
What's the temp and humidity in July Fred? I know you run away then.


Actually the temps in the summer aren't bad here in the Keys. We are in Marathon. The highest recorded temp since they started keeping records is 99. The lowest is 35. Most days there is not more than a 10 degree difference between the high and low. Stay out of the sun and you are fine.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:34 PM   #50
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So I quickly skimmed through these posts and want to know if people are simply sanding off the old finish or are using furniture stripper followed by a quick sand. I've got to do my hand and cap rails this year. Missed doing it last year, boat being new to me and all and all the other projects. I bought a gallon of stripping product (unopened) last year and it says not to use it on fiberglass, so I assume I've got to be careful with it around the boat. Thoughts?

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Old 03-30-2014, 08:42 PM   #51
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A scraper and a heat gun only, then a little sanding when finished. I would never use a chemical stripper and boy do we have teak .............
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:47 PM   #52
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I am in the middle of stripping the old varnish and applying Cetol. My friend is a professional brightwork specialist and recommended, just as Ready2Go has mentioned above, the Sikkens Cetol Natural Teak and Gloss. It applies easilty and looks great next to existing varnished teak. Will remove all old varnish except on salon door. Planning on least two coats of Natural and 3 coats of gloss (with light sanding in between) on cap rails and trim. Will probably add another coat of gloss at the end of summer.

They know that I want it relatively easy to apply and maintain. They showed me a 60' sail boat that was amazing...all Sikkens Marine Natural and gloss. Beautiful finish. Of course, they also do a fair amount of varnish work too. Varnish does have a slightly deeper shine that can't be beat.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:53 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE View Post
So I quickly skimmed through these posts and want to know if people are simply sanding off the old finish or are using furniture stripper followed by a quick sand. I've got to do my hand and cap rails this year. Missed doing it last year, boat being new to me and all and all the other projects. I bought a gallon of stripping product (unopened) last year and it says not to use it on fiberglass, so I assume I've got to be careful with it around the boat. Thoughts?

Jim, Sent from my iPad using Trawler
I would not use the furniture stripper, I recommend using a heat gun and a very good scraper. Keep it sharp, or buy the type you can replace the blades on. After getting it scraped, sand with about 150 to 180 grit sandpaper to get the rough spots, then I start putting on the finish. I use Epifanes, and I thin the first coat and let it dry, then I lightly sand with a wet sandpaper 220 grit, following that, I wipe everything with a rag with mineral spirits (turpentine), let that dry, normally only takes about 30 mins, then I apply the second coat. I repeat this process for each coat, and apply 7 coats total. Epifanes says you don't have to sand between coats but I like the finish I get much better with sanding.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:16 AM   #54
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Here is three coats of Epifanes clear on my door panels .This is new teak . First coat thinned 50% next two coats thinned 25% I hope to get 8 coats on before getting burned out but don't think I will make it . I've heard the magic is the 13th coat . I know that ain't happening .Can't rush it . Has to dry 24 hrs in decent climate and sand between coats . I'm using TDS (teak decking systems) caulk in the grooves and all joints .
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:39 AM   #55
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Heat gun ($20-$30 range to buy at hardware stores) and scrapers followed by light sanding to even out any gouges. Fastest, easiest way to go.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:25 AM   #56
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Thanks for your advice all. Will get a heat gun. Useful in other areas as well.

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Old 03-31-2014, 11:36 AM   #57
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JDCAVE Man I sure like your KK42 .You got any mor pics I love looking at them. That's my next one when I sell the house .
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:34 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule View Post
Here is three coats of Epifanes clear on my door panels .This is new teak . First coat thinned 50% next two coats thinned 25% I hope to get 8 coats on before getting burned out but don't think I will make it . I've heard the magic is the 13th coat . I know that ain't happening .Can't rush it . Has to dry 24 hrs in decent climate and sand between coats . I'm using TDS (teak decking systems) caulk in the grooves and all joints .
PM,

Have you looked at the Epifanes Wood Finish Gloss product? No sanding required between coats, compatible with the Epifanes varnish already used and if you time it right, you can get up to 3 coats per day. With this stuff, 13 coats is achievable.

I used it on my cap rail last year and was very pleased with the product and results. Can't tell the difference from all the other wood with Epifanes Gloss Varnish applied.



Here's a cut and paste from their FAQ page:

Question: Could you explain the differences between varnishes that require sanding between coats and those that don't require sanding? Is there a difference in life expectancy between the two? Also, what is the effective shelf life of varnish? Does storage temperature play a roll?

Answer: There are many, many varnishes; clear finishes and hybrid clear coatings on the market today. Most manufacturers have made some attempt in various directions in order to create an easier, faster, longer lasting finish. Unfortunately, we can only comment in any detail on our own products. For obvious reasons, it would be unfair to do otherwise. Twelve years ago, Epifanes produced a finish very similar to our Clear High Gloss Varnish, called Wood Finish Gloss. It is a tung oil, alkyd resin based finish just like our varnish however, it does contain ingredients not normally found in traditional varnishes producing one significant difference. Wood Finish does not require sanding between coats provided the next coat is applied within a 72-hour period. This feature has an obvious effect on the amount of labor and time required to build a finish from bare wood. Sanding is optional. Wood Finish changes the focus of sanding completely. You are no longer sanding for adhesion but appearance only. Are you sacrificing any integrity by using this product? At this point in time no. However, having said that, we are recommending top coating this product with our varnish for the ultimate in performance. We have 97 years experience with our Clear High Gloss Varnish and only twelve years with the Woodfinish. Time will tell. Unopened varnish has virtually no shelf life. We have opened five-year-old varnish that has been perfectly good. The oils and resins may change color and consistency slightly but essentially the product should be fine. Once opened however, the life of the varnish will be greatly reduced. Each time it is opened, a portion of the solvent evaporates leaving a thicker mixture more prone to solidifying. Store the container upside down, reduce the air space, and keep the varnish cool. I have more problems keeping varnish in Florida than Maine. The temperature plays a major roll. Store in a cool area of the basement.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:50 PM   #59
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FlyWright I have read about it and my old school ways wouldn't step aside and let me try this . I haven't bought all my varnish just yet .I 've only really bought enough to get started . I have to spread the varnish bill out a little bit you know. My dad was a painter all his life and all he ever let me do was move drop cloths around and watch . I remember one time we were at the paint store ,they didn't have what he really wanted but they had something else . He asked the guy if he could come around the counter and smell the finish that he had . The guy looked at him like he was crazy but let him smell it .Dad said nope and we went somewhere else .I thought he was crazy to but he knew what he was talking about . Dad forgive me but I might try this stuff .Three coats in one day sounds goooood. Thanks for the info FlyWright .
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:50 PM   #60
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Cetol has a tint to it, and this tint builds up and "colors" the teak. I am stripping all the woodwork after using Cetol for 6 years. My teak has an orange look to it as the Cetol has colored pigment in it. I am going to use Awl Wood MA by Interlux. It has been in OZ for sometime, but just released in the U.S. in January. I've spoken to factory reps in person at Annapolis Boat Show and have purchsed the system. You also can multi-coat. Should use 8 coats. For me, I wished I never used Cetol...SHould have gone with Epifanes Varnish. At least my brightwork would not look orange
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