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Old 11-13-2013, 05:49 PM   #1
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Winterizing Motor without running it?

I have a Perkins 236 that I pulled the failed injector pump off, and now I need to winterize the engine. The new pump won't be here for a week and the nights up here in Maine are getting colder.
Can I drain the raw water system of all the water(Which is fresh water at the time) by removing drain plugs in the heat exchanger and exhaust? The other option is to crank the motor over with the starter enough to circulate antifreeze through the raw water system. I am not sure if the timing will be off if I crank the motor with the injector pump off? Perkins are nice because there is only one way to put the pump on, however I am wondering if there is something I am missing?
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:11 PM   #2
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Pull the impeller out of the raw water pump and then using a small bilge pump adapt it to draw from a 5 gal bucket, actually it can be dropped right in, and pump the A.F. through the engine. Pull the hose off the through hull and adapt with some cheap plastic ftgs between the bilge pump and the raw water intake hose.

No engine start or cranking.

The only fly in the ointment is if you have a water lift muffler. You could back fill the engine. If you do have one then you may need to pull the injection hose from the riser and feed it to another bucket, maybe two, untill you get pink, solid pink.

The water lift itself will need to be drained. There SHOULD be a drain plug at the base.
Or suck the water out somehow.

Unfortunately just draining may not get all the water and then you risk a pocket somewhere freezing.


EDIT :YUP HEATER is probably the best for short term.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:14 PM   #3
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How about a heater in the boat until the pump is back in then do a proper winterizing.........

HOLLYWOOD
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:59 PM   #4
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Yes heater is what I'd do to. Dosn't take much especially if your in the water.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:43 AM   #5
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You need to winterize BOTH sides , engine coolant and sea water.

A shop vac will assist in getting all the water out , suck or blow , whatever works .

Remember you need to winterize from the seacock to the exhaust overboard .

Hoping the local electric stays on could cost the engine.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:54 AM   #6
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Not sure what Fred means regarding winterizing "both sides". Our Cummins gets winterized on the seawater side. The engine coolant is good for 5 years with no winter worries. In addition to what has been said previous consider this. Your objective is to get antifreeze through the engine from the seawater inlet side to the exhaust. Provided you have adequate pressure head ( a few feet of antifreeze in a feed tube with a funnel this should flow through the engine. The only obstruction to flow is the impeller, so remove this and re-install the plate. Find a convenient place to feed the antifreeze - you may find you can feed from the inlet strainer with minor mods - if not remove the seawater inlet hose to the engine and feed there. Now feed until AF exits the exhaust. Lastly I drain the exhaust silencer box to eliminate the risk that any seawater/AF mix in that large container is not diluted too much. Regarding the "other side" - I have no recommendations!! I would not rely on an electric heater unless you are in a temperate zone!!
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:31 AM   #7
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I don't agree pumping antifreeze though the system is "the proper way"

I would think it's a great way to reduce corrosion but just so long as the impeller doesn't just sit squeezed in a solution of antifreeze and you find a way to keep the entire system full of antifreeze from the pump to the exhaust..otherwise it's just a waste of antifreeze and a good fresh water rinse and drain is "just as proper". Now if there an antifreeze out there that leaves a significant coating behind to reduce corrosion...I'm all ears.

My Cats used to drain all but the seawater pump cavity if you pulled all the zincs out...so I did and took the pumps home, disassembled and let the impellers sit in their natural state after being wiped with some armorall.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:34 AM   #8
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let me throw this out...i don't know if it would happen or not. If you force water (antifreeze ), with a pump into the exchanger and in to the manifold wouldn't be possible for the liquid to flow into the open exhaust valve(s)? when it is running or even cranking there is compression air being left out of the valves that keeps this from happening but if you weren't cranking or running what would stop it from getting into the cylinders?
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:39 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by eseyoung View Post
let me throw this out...i don't know if it would happen or not. If you force water (antifreeze ), with a pump into the exchanger and in to the manifold wouldn't be possible for the liquid to flow into the open exhaust valve(s)? when it is running or even cranking there is compression air being left out of the valves that keeps this from happening but if you weren't cranking or running what would stop it from getting into the cylinders?
I think only if it backs up in a water lift muffler or your exhaust system doesn't drain properly...otherwise the water in your exhaust system when you shut down would drain back and do the same.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:01 AM   #10
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Another option (with a good battery) might be to simply "pump" the AF through by cranking the engine. We simply run AF through by feeding it into the SW strainer fitted with a PVC pipe extender to raise the fluid level and make it easier to keep the strainer full while running the engine. Takes about 2 gallons to be really comfortable with water displacement. I would guess you could accomplish the same simply by having somebody crank for a couple of minutes while you pour the AF into the strainer. You can then decide whether you want to remove the impeller afterwards. I used to remove the impeller each winter but have had no problems since I stopped doing this. I would still drain the exhaust silencer box - if you do not have a drain cock it is easy to tap a thread into the bottom and insert a simple drain valve.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #11
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I take the hose off of the through hull seacock valve and stick it into the bottom of a 5 gal plastic bucket. Put 3 gal (or so) of RV AF in the bucket and start the engine. At idle it's surpprising how long the AF lasts in the bucket. Plenty long enough for me to go out in the cockpit, hang my head over the transom and observe what's coming out of the exhaust. As soon as the more or less clear seawater clears out it's very obvious when the red dyed AF has replaced the seawater throughout the system. When I shut down the engine only a small amount of red AF is left in the bucket. My engine is only 107 cu in so a 400 cu in engine will probably eat up the red RV AF much quicker requiring someone outside to announce the arrival of the AF coming out the exhaust and perhaps someone inside replenishing the AF as the engine pumps it through the system. Or just pump 2 or 3 buckets of AF into the system starting and stopping the engine. Then go outside and observe the red AF.

There is of course always AF in the engine and the "other side" of the heat exchangers.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:05 AM   #12
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I think only if it backs up in a water lift muffler or your exhaust system doesn't drain properly...otherwise the water in your exhaust system when you shut down would drain back and do the same.

when you shut down the engine there is no more water flowing. Maybe a few oz would drip in from the hose, but not enough to flood the manifold up to where the valves are.

The water is injected at the top of a pressurized (by exhaust gas) manifold. if there were no pressure in the manifold wouldn't it fill the manifold before coming out the exhaust port?
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:07 PM   #13
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Sea Flush

Has anyone tried this? It is similar to one of the above solutions.

http://youtu.be/umgFv6C_-Dw
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eseyoung View Post
when you shut down the engine there is no more water flowing. Maybe a few oz would drip in from the hose, but not enough to flood the manifold up to where the valves are.

The water is injected at the top of a pressurized (by exhaust gas) manifold. if there were no pressure in the manifold wouldn't it fill the manifold before coming out the exhaust port?
The water is injected via an "injection elbow", not the manifold, specifically designed so that it is downstream and a downward run instead of backing up into the exhaust manifold.

The water I am talking about backflowing would be the water in the exhaust system backflowing after the engine was shut off. Usually there is a water lift muffler or vented loop to prevent this...but if enough flow and it overwhelms the waterlift and gets high enough...it will go into the exhaust manifold and find its way to the open valves.
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:14 PM   #15
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The water is injected at the top of a pressurized (by exhaust gas) manifold. if there were no pressure in the manifold wouldn't it fill the manifold before coming out the exhaust port?
The mixing elbow or spray ring is designed so that water will fall by gravity into the wet side of the system if there is no exhaust flow. The exhaust gases help disperse the spray of water and mix it with incoming gases. It doesn't require gas flow to keep water out of the manifold itself.

The problems that folks have been talking about occur if there is no exhaust backpressure available to lift (that is why it is called a water-lift muffler) out of the muffler and move it into the overboard piping.

If you crank the engine without starting, or otherwise pump raw water into the engine, the water will fill the muffler and will eventually reach the level of the mixing elbow and from there it is a straight shot to the turbocharger or manifold and open exhaust valves.

Ah, great minds and all that ... but psneeld is a faster typist!
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:21 PM   #16
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Ok got it. Someone told me to be careful of siphoning action when using the bucket method...that it would cause hydrolock. So that will only happen if the muffler is full. I was under the impression that it was the exhaust gas that kept it out of the manifold.

so with to much cranking (or otherwise pumping water) and no exhaust to push the water out of the muffler it will fill and then flood the manifold...got it.

Understand i am very new at this...but i THINK my exhaust from the muffler to the transom is lower than the exhaust port on the manifold. so i wouldn't have an issues with this in my particular boat?
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:28 PM   #17
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Ok got it. Someone told me to be careful of siphoning action when using the bucket method...that it would cause hydrolock. So that will only happen if the muffler is full. I was under the impression that it was the exhaust gas that kept it out of the manifold.

so with to much cranking (or otherwise pumping water) and no exhaust to push the water out of the muffler it will fill and then flood the manifold...got it.

Understand i am very new at this...but i THINK my exhaust from the muffler to the transom is lower than the exhaust port on the manifold. so i wouldn't have an issues with this in my particular boat?
Actually the siphoning method with the engine running (not just cranking) is the most idiot proof...

Excessive cranking without running may hydrolock or using another method to pump antifreeze in might hydrolock...but siphoning it out of a pail with the engine running and you are usually safe.
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:16 PM   #18
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I agree with FF . Been using a shop vac many years . works for me.
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:49 PM   #19
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Actually the siphoning method with the engine running (not just cranking) is the most idiot proof....
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:36 AM   #20
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Ahh yes -winterizing. I don't miss it at all.

Now it means I throw an extra jumper (sweater) in the boat.
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