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Old 01-22-2012, 04:13 PM   #21
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Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

If this is to be mounted on a wall, or some other vertical surface, that ac pump arangement is going to be a problem. The water flow from the thru hull, to the strainer, to the pump has to be steady up hill and all below the water line, or you will get air locks and will always be having to "burp" the system. The pump intake (end fitting) also has to be below the discharge. The pump head will rotate (remove the 4 screws at the end, rotate, replace screws. O-ring seals so it's easy to do). If it's not, the pump will air-lock every time. I also suggest the longer, higher flow 90's if you can work them in. I always use "Full Flow" fittings at least from the thru hull to the pump intake. They are an oversize fitting that used the next size up hose. For example, 3/4" full flow fittings have 3/4 pipe threads, but use 1" hose. There is a tremendous amount of flow that goes through an ac system, and a lot of crud. The easier it is for the crud to get to the strainer, the better the system will work and the less maintenance required. Those tight 90's are a great place for a clog. These ac pumps are not self priming, so you have to have all of the plumbing where the water will flow right into the pump as soon as you open the valve.

You'll notice your old system has the proper arrangement for flow. Thru hull to strainer up hill. Strainer to pump on the same plane, with the discharge fitting on the pump above the intake. You can rotate the pump where it discharges straight up, or to the side, it doesn't matter, as long as it is above the intake. The discharge hose also needs to continue up hill away from the pump for a short ways at least. Long enough that if you get a*shot of air in the system it will travel through the pump and on up the line. Just don't want the pump to be the high point in the system and trap air (air lock).

Hope I've made sense, and been some help!

*



-- Edited by Brent Hodges on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 05:20:22 PM



-- Edited by Brent Hodges on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 05:21:26 PM


-- Edited by Brent Hodges on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 05:21:50 PM
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:24 PM   #22
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

One more thought. Your blaster pump is a diapharm type and will pump air, so it's arrangement isn't as critical, although it will work better if the pump is above the strainer so the air will work out of the system naturally.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:28 PM   #23
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Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

What if I just flip the whole design over? Will that satisfy the requirements? Hang on, I'll get a pic.

Ok... here are two different versions. In the first one, I'll have to wait and see if the hosing will make that turn, but I could try a few different fittings to work it out.


plummockup3 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


plummockup4 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 05:51:31 PM
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:00 PM   #24
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

In the first pic, you could swap the fittings on the strainer and pump then it would be a straight shot, but I wouldn't mount the pump in that position.

These pumps work better (and are intended to be) mounted horizonally. Maybe mount the ac strainer in the lower left position with the pump in the lower right. Output of the strainer right into the pump. Then stagger the washdown strainer slightly to the left and above the ac strainer and pump above the ac pump? Play with that, but you're on the right track. Also, all hose on the suction side of the pumps (thru hull all the way to pump) needs to be wire reinforced hardwall water hose. Non-reinforced hose will collapse.
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:07 PM   #25
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

I also see the termnal strip in the pic. Excellent choice for hooking these pumps up. Gives you a great place to troubleshoot, and makes removal of the pump a snap. For the terminal strip you use on the 120v stuff, Blue Sea Systems makes a DualBus cover (part # 2709) that protects these strips from damage and you from a "shocking" experience! )
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:33 PM   #26
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Quote:
Brent Hodges wrote:
In the first pic, you could swap the fittings on the strainer and pump then it would be a straight shot, but I wouldn't mount the pump in that position.

These pumps work better (and are intended to be) mounted horizonally. Maybe mount the ac strainer in the lower left position with the pump in the lower right. Output of the strainer right into the pump. Then stagger the washdown strainer slightly to the left and above the ac strainer and pump above the ac pump? Play with that, but you're on the right track. Also, all hose on the suction side of the pumps (thru hull all the way to pump) needs to be wire reinforced hardwall water hose. Non-reinforced hose will collapse.
*I wondered about the pumps orientation, but there was no documentation so I gave up trying to look it up.

Reinforced hose is on order :-D

I'll try your config and see how it looks. Thanks for all the help.

Tom-
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:38 PM   #27
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

By the way, what type of boat is that? It's a good looking boat, but can't put my finger on the brand.

You may or may not know, but my Albin, Friendship, is the center boat in the banner at the top of these pages! The one with the anchor out holding all 5 boats. Oh, and the ICW mustache.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:00 PM   #28
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:Brent Hodges wrote:
In the first pic, you could swap the fittings on the strainer and pump then it would be a straight shot, but I wouldn't mount the pump in that position.

These pumps work better (and are intended to be) mounted horizonally. Maybe mount the ac strainer in the lower left position with the pump in the lower right. Output of the strainer right into the pump. Then stagger the washdown strainer slightly to the left and above the ac strainer and pump above the ac pump? Play with that, but you're on the right track. Also, all hose on the suction side of the pumps (thru hull all the way to pump) needs to be wire reinforced hardwall water hose. Non-reinforced hose will collapse.
*I wondered about the pumps orientation, but there was no documentation so I gave up trying to look it up.

Reinforced hose is on order :-D

I'll try your config and see how it looks. Thanks for all the help.

Tom-

*

Tom, this is what Shurflo says about orientation. That way if the pump should ever leak or need to be dismantled water doesn't run on the motor. I do this for all my electric pumps. Love your mockups, nothing beats "measure many times - cut once" and thats what the mockups do.

MOUNTING*

Consider a dry location that allows easy access if maintenance is required. *The pump should not*be located in an area of less than one cubic foot unless adequate ventilation is provided. * * * * **

Excessive heat may trigger the integral thermal breaker and interrupt operation. When the*temperature *drops the breaker will automatically reset and start operation.

Mount higher than the outside water (sea) level. The pump is capable of a 6 ft. [2M] vertical*prime above the outside water level. The pump can be mounted in any position. *If mounting *the pump vertically, the pump head should be in the down position.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:05 PM   #29
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Here are the two new mock-ups:

This one is just the swap of the fittings:


plummockup5 by GonzoF1, on Flickr

This one I think I like better (ignore the weird hose fitting on the washdown pump... it's just for mock-up)


plummockup6 by GonzoF1, on Flickr
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #30
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Tom, this is what Shurflo says about orientation. That way if the pump should ever leak or need to be dismantled water doesn't run on the motor.

Mount higher than the outside water (sea) level. The pump is capable of a 6 ft. [2M] vertical*prime above the outside water level. The pump can be mounted in any position. *If mounting *the pump vertically, the pump head should be in the down position. (endsnip)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That is exactly right for a diaphram type pump, like your Blaster, but NOT the ac pump. Two completely different animals. You*CANNOT mount the ac centrifical type pump above the water line, and it must be mounted in such a way as to not trap air. Also, the motor on this particular ac pump is sealed so it can get splashed. This is actually meant to be a "wet location" pump. The motor part is even water cooled. Note the 1/4" or so lines going from the pump heat to the motor.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:25 PM   #31
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Mike is right about the diaphram pump*and mounting it motor up. As far as it being above the water line, as long as you have*a good working thru hull valve I don't see that as a big deal.

As long as the ac pump stays below the water line, and the further the better, the second layout should work for the ac pump. I had failed to mention the details of the Blaster pump mounting as I was having tunnel vision on the ac pump layout. You will have*to play some more to get the balster in the right orentation. Try to get the motor above the pump end, don't worry to much as to whether it's above or below the water line.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:51 PM   #32
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Is on it's side too much to ask?
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:23 AM   #33
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

On it's side is fine also. Main thing they don't want is pump end up, motor down. There is a shaft seal in there that can fail, and if it's motor down water will run right into the electric motor.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:22 AM   #34
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

So here it is then... Looks like I'll need to mount the lower strainer (washdown) on a double-thick piece of Starboard to allow the strainer basket to be removed. Simple enough fix I suppose.

Thanks for all the help!


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Old 01-24-2012, 05:31 AM   #35
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Looks like that should work.
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Old 02-05-2012, 02:12 PM   #36
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

At the boat this weekend and cleaned the old hardware out from the area where the new plumbing will go. Then took a reading on the fit of the mocked-up fixtures.

Here is the site. Looks like a can of grey bilge paint is in order.

bilge by GonzoF1, on Flickr

Here is the first test fit. It looks like the thru-hull fixture is in the way. Sure glad I test fit this first. If you look close, the board is not quite as wide as the place where it's going to go. The idea was that the piece Starboard I bought was 24" wide and I was hoping not to have to cut an odd size out of it. It looks like I need to increase the distance between the wash down pump and strainer to allow room to operate the thru-hull valve. So I will need the few extra inches.

plumbmock8 by GonzoF1, on Flickr
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:35 PM   #37
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Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

***special extra bonus points for the wife hanging headfirst into the yelling hole to get that shot while you have both hands on the plumbing mockup***

*



*

Come on, that was supposed to be funny!!* Sorry I killed your project thread! ;-)


-- Edited by Besslb on Tuesday 7th of February 2012 05:28:34 AM
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:37 PM   #38
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Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Here is the latest mock-up on 27" wide King Starboard. The washdown pump needed to be up on a second piece of Starboard to bring it up to level with the output of the strainer, so I made the hose long for now and can finalize the position (left to right) when I fit it next week.

I bought some Rectorseal #5 for the fittings. That's good, right?


plummockup8 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 12th of February 2012 07:42:48 PM
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:46 AM   #39
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Mounting the motors vertically with the pump on the bottom may help save the motor when the shaft seal goes.
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:00 AM   #40
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RE: Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

Yea... I have explored that Fred. The original breadboard (24") didn't have enough space. This new one might. The rig will lose some of the elegance it has now, but I'll take another look at a vertical washdown pump. The A/C pump is magnetic and has no shaft.
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