Winter Project II: Raw Water Plumbing

[Brent Hodges]

Mike is right about the diaphram pump*and mounting it motor up. As far as it being above the water line, as long as you have*a good working thru hull valve I don't see that as a big deal.

As long as the ac pump stays below the water line, and the further the better, the second layout should work for the ac pump. I had failed to mention the details of the Blaster pump mounting as I was having tunnel vision on the ac pump layout. You will have*to play some more to get the balster in the right orentation. Try to get the motor above the pump end, don't worry to much as to whether it's above or below the water line.

 

[Tom.B]

Is on it's side too much to ask?

 

[Brent Hodges]

On it's side is fine also. Main thing they don't want is pump end up, motor down. There is a shaft seal in there that can fail, and if it's motor down water will run right into the electric motor.

 

[Tom.B]

So here it is then... Looks like I'll need to mount the lower strainer (washdown) on a double-thick piece of Starboard to allow the strainer basket to be removed. Simple enough fix I suppose.

Thanks for all the help!


plummockup7 by GonzoF1, on Flickr

 

[Brent Hodges]

Looks like that should work.

 

[Tom.B]

At the boat this weekend and cleaned the old hardware out from the area where the new plumbing will go. Then took a reading on the fit of the mocked-up fixtures.

Here is the site. Looks like a can of grey bilge paint is in order.

bilge by GonzoF1, on Flickr

Here is the first test fit. It looks like the thru-hull fixture is in the way. Sure glad I test fit this first. If you look close, the board is not quite as wide as the place where it's going to go. The idea was that the piece Starboard I bought was 24" wide and I was hoping not to have to cut an odd size out of it. It looks like I need to increase the distance between the wash down pump and strainer to allow room to operate the thru-hull valve. So I will need the few extra inches.

plumbmock8 by GonzoF1, on Flickr

 

[Besslb]

***special extra bonus points for the wife hanging headfirst into the yelling hole to get that shot while you have both hands on the plumbing mockup***

*

*

Come on, that was supposed to be funny!!* Sorry I killed your project thread! ;-)


-- Edited by Besslb on Tuesday 7th of February 2012 05:28:34 AM

 

[Tom.B]

Here is the latest mock-up on 27" wide King Starboard. The washdown pump needed to be up on a second piece of Starboard to bring it up to level with the output of the strainer, so I made the hose long for now and can finalize the position (left to right) when I fit it next week.

I bought some Rectorseal #5 for the fittings. That's good, right?


plummockup8 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 12th of February 2012 07:42:48 PM

 

[FF]

Mounting the motors vertically with the pump on the bottom may help save the motor when the shaft seal goes.

 

[Tom.B]

Yea... I have explored that Fred. The original breadboard (24") didn't have enough space. This new one might. The rig will lose some of the elegance it has now, but I'll take another look at a vertical washdown pump. The A/C pump is magnetic and has no shaft.

 

[Codger2]

FF wrote:
Mounting the motors vertically with the pump on the bottom may help save the motor when the shaft seal goes.

******** That actually happened to me years ago. The pump was mounted over the motor and when it sprung a leak the motor was fried.

 

[Tom.B]

Unless gravity somehow changes, if the pump fails while it rig is on its side... I don't see water intruding into the motor. Right?

 

[FlyWright]

Sarcasm, right?*

With all due respect, you ask the question, you get insightful advice based on past experience from experienced boat owners and you challenge that advice.* I once had a boss who was fond of saying, "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question."*

Water leaking under pressure on a rolling and pitching boat can go many directions.*

My pumps are also mounted vertically with the motor above the pump.* That's how the manufacturer built it so I figured that's how they wanted them mounted.* I'm not sure it makes a difference in pump operation or priming, but I know they work well upright.* Besides, it's easy enough to vary your fittings and elbows to accomodate this without taking up much more space.*

But, in the end, it's your project, your call.*

 

[Codger2]

GonzoF1 wrote:
Unless gravity somehow changes, if the pump fails while it rig is on its side... I don't see water intruding into the motor. Right?

******* Of course you are right! My comment was based on the photo you provided.

 

[Tom.B]

No... It was a SERIOUS inquiry, Al.

If you're trying to prevent gravity from putting water in the motor, I was honestly trying to understand how a failing shaft seal let the water go sideways? If water is under pressure and goes every direction in the event of a failure, how is sideways less destructive than any other direction? I am sure it's more than losing a motor. There is a fire hazard there. That said, how do we know that's how the manufacturer built it? I read the installation guide and it says "The pump can be mounted in any position. If mounting the pump vertically, the pump head should be in the down position." No mention of anything else. Can you NOW understand why I inquired and/or questioned the advice? This is just a washdown pump. It won't get a massive duty cycle. If the seal fails and starts letting in seawater, I have bigger problems than replacing a $115 washdown pump.

 

[FF]

If water is under pressure and goes every direction in the event of a failure, how is sideways less destructive than any other direction?

Water IS effected by gravity , so mounting the pump below the motor may save the motor with a slow leaking shaft seal.

Most folks attempt to use "best practices" , what is "BEST" is usually the gear mfg call.

Those who know more than the Mfg. should do it their way.

 

[Tom.B]

Why are you guys jumping in my ^%$ about this? I am not claiming any more knowledge about this than the manufacturer and I am not mounting this with the motor down. I am within what the manual says can be done and was merely trying to understand why y'all thought sideways was bad. I am not being rude about this. These are honest questions that are only meant to get you to support your assertions that I am doing it wrong.

 

[Codger2]

Is this the final configuration for your Project? In other words, will the starboard be mounted vertically?

 

[Tom.B]

Yes.

Ahhh, I see where you might be going with this. Hmmm... I wonder if this is actually considered vertical by THEIR definition? I saw "vertical" as only motor up or motor down and this as simply horizontal but rotated 90-degrees.

 

[psneeld]

From Shurflo washdown pump install instructions -

*
Mount higher than the outside water (sea) level. The pump is (edited)

*
*
prime above the outside water level. The pump can be mounted in any position. If mounting
*

the pump vertically, the pump head should be in the down position.


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 14th of February 2012 04:09:42 PM

 

[Tom.B]

Yea... The above the waterline can't really happen (maybe in a future upgrade), but 99% of the time the seacock will be closed and I must assume they state the reason for that because of the possible shaft bushing failure. Bummer.

Maybe I'll call them about their definition of vertical.

 

[FF]

Maybe I'll call them about their definition of vertical.

Good Luck,

I'm still working on the meaning of "IS".


-- Edited by FF on Wednesday 15th of February 2012 06:30:17 AM

 

[psneeld]

GonzoF1 wrote:
Yea... The above the waterline can't really happen (maybe in a future upgrade), but 99% of the time the seacock will be closed and I must assume they state the reason for that because of the possible shaft bushing failure. Bummer.

Maybe I'll call them about their definition of vertical.

*Pretty much a wasted phone*call... its pretty obvious that their*wishes are that the pump is equal to or lower than the motor (go to several manufacturer websires of these kinds of pumps and read the instructions/and look at the install pics).* No rocket science required.

 

[Brent Hodges]

Tom, you're fine with the way you have it layed out. Someone is making way too big of a deal out of this. They were talking about the spray under pressure type of failures, and that just doesn't happen very often. I've been working on these diaphram type of pumps for years and I've NEVER seen that type of failure. They are usually a slow seep type of failure which will do just fine with the way you have the pump mounted. Obviously you can see that if the pump was mounted vertically, motor down, a slow seep would eventually get past the motor seal.

Not to say a catastrophic failure with water spraying everywhere couldn't happen, but I've never seen it. Or heard of it happening.

Like I've said before, just be sure that the ac pump, strainer, and thru hull are all in a steady up hill mounting, all below the water line and you should be a happy camper.

Brent

 

[Tom.B]

Gave it another look today. Like I said, I have a little more room on this board than the original. By flipping the handle to the bottom, it looks like I could actually satisfy the motor-up config should I opt to. It actually serves another master by getting the pump even more out of the way of the seacock. Will have to goto the boat and verify the fit first though.


plummockup9 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Wednesday 15th of February 2012 08:00:13 PM

 

[Codger2]

GonzoF1 wrote:
*By flipping the handle to the bottom, it looks like I could actually satisfy the motor-up config should I opt to.

_____________________________________________________

I like it much better! (It would be nice, however, to get that terminal block out of the way of a "dripping pump."*

)

Don't crucify me, Tom. I'm just interested in your project. :worship:

-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Wednesday 15th of February 2012 11:26:54 PM

 

[C lectric]

Yes, wiring is always better over top of potential drips.
If the T.B. is to remain then rig a drip shield like a roof flashing to drip the water out and away and put drip loops into the wiring run before final connection to the T.B.

 

[Besslb]

Tom is in the engine room installing his plumbing project.* We're having sustained 25-30 knot winds and Skinny Dippin' is dancing all around in her slip!* Makes for fun times finding pieces that rolled into the engine room while no one is looking and all you hear is "TING" as it hits the floor!*

*

 

[Tom.B]

SHE'S IN!!!!

Spent yesterday doing the final install. It took two trips to Mitchell's Hardware and one trip to Worst Marine, but she is in and working. No runs, drips, or errors. Still need to do the final hook-up of the washdown circuit and may hold off on that for a bit. Nevertheless, I am happy with the results.

I really should move the electrical, but it's out of the way of everything short of a spraying failure, but like I have said before, if I get a failure like that, I have bigger problems that whether the electrical will short out :-D

Thanks for everyone's help on this!!!


plumbfinal2 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 26th of February 2012 08:29:13 AM

 

[JD]

GonzoF1 wrote:
SHE'S IN!!!!

Spent yesterday doing the final install. It took two trips to Mitchell's Hardware and one trip to Worst Marine, but she is in and working. No runs, drips, or errors. Still need to do the final hook-up of the washdown circuit and may hold off on that for a bit. Nevertheless, I am happy with the results.

I really should move the electrical, but it's out of the way of everything short of a spraying failure, but like I have said before, if I get a failure like that, I have bigger problems that whether the electrical will short out :-D

Thanks for everyone's help on this!!!


plumbfinal2 by GonzoF1, on Flickr



-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 26th of February 2012 08:29:13 AM

*Tom,

You could move the terminal strip up to the top left just to the right of the A/C pump.* I think you will have plenty of room to service the strainer.* Install a plastic cover to prevent accidentally hitting it with a tool and you would be good to go.