Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-04-2015, 11:02 PM   #1
Member
 
City: Vancouver, British Columbia
Country: Canada
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 20
what type of shaft seal / stuffing box is this?

I have unscrewed the big nut (clean one) on the left and pushed it towards the engine. There was one layer of 1/4" packing there half of it was sticking out and easily removed. The small nut (just right of it on the second photo, and still threaded on (the first photo) is some sort of locking nut for the big nut. When I have removed all four hose clamps from the rubber bellow/hose (third photo) the threaded piece with a flange that touches the rubber hose/bellow is spinning but has moved only 1/8" left towards the engine so I am unable to see what is under the hose and whether there is in fact any packing to be replaced / renewed. The small brass tube 3/8"on the right is where the hose is connected supplying water from the raw water pump. I will access it from other side tomorrow to have more purchase in order to try and push it to left towards the engine.

This to me seems as if the system works similar to the PSS dripless shaft seal with the rubber hose/bellow acting as a sort of seal wrapping around the through hull cutlass bearing and that piece that is spinning but not moving backwards, and only one layer of 1/4" packing is used to seal it.

Anyone have any tips knowledge about this is much appreciated.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20150504_174743.jpg
Views:	281
Size:	175.4 KB
ID:	39914   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20150504_174903.jpg
Views:	313
Size:	135.9 KB
ID:	39917   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20150413_202415.jpg
Views:	294
Size:	164.0 KB
ID:	39918  
__________________
Advertisement

Brico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2015, 11:49 PM   #2
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,091
There is nothing under the hose other than your prop shaft. (and a hose coupling on either end). The sole purpose is just to hold the stuffing box in place and seal the gap between stuffing box and cutlass bearing.


You'd only need to remove the hose if the hose to change it out if its looking a bit dodgy. (soft or cracked). You can change the length of the hose if space allows, to allow the shaft packing to seal on a smoother part of the shaft. I recently added about 6" just to make the adjustment nut more accessible.


I am surprised you only found one layer of shaft packing. 3-4 layers is normal.
__________________

AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 12:41 AM   #3
Member
 
City: Vancouver, British Columbia
Country: Canada
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 20
Thanks AusCan,
The hose/bellow seem to be original (1980) and on the Port engine it looks it was renewed. To replace it i would need to pull out the shaft (at least few inches to slide the new length in) which I did not plan for this haul out.

Would you know what make/model is this stuffing box?

The one layer of 1/4" packing was found around the shaft under the threaded pice that I am unable to move backward. On Hatteras forum one guy claims more layers of packing should be inside the big (shiny ) nut but from quick check this afternoon I could not see any. I guess i will have to check more closely and try extracting if there is more.
Brico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 01:11 AM   #4
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,091
To replace the stern tube hose, you'd either need to slide the shaft back or slide the engine forward a few inches, (and remove the shaft coupling) giving you a gap to maneuver the hose out of/into. It is a job to do during the haul out.


I don't know the model, but it looks fairly standard.


I'd guess the only the top layer of packing has been replaced numerous times and the bottom 3 layers are the original 30 year old packing, which has been squeezed into a hard solid mass. It may now have a shiny surface looking like its part of the stuffing box.
If you dig it out and replace it all, you will require much less frequent adjustments to maintain the ideal compression and seal.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 01:31 AM   #5
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,860
I have a similar packing setup. The big hollow nut ,Pic #2,is where the packing should go, inside the nut. Preferably two or three pieces. The big nut is then run down on the threaded spud and is compressed to seal on the shaft. The compression takes place between the end of the spud and the inside of the hollow nut.

There is a locknut that , once the packing is adjusted, is used to jam the big nut in place. Pic.#1

Mine is almost the same except for the EXTRA threaded nut at the back run down onto the log hose. It should not be needed.

I learned to not go past 3 packing pieces as they do not compress readily, there can be too many for proper compression, and wouldn't seal well. My experience. Also I use a piece of plastic pipe to gently work each packing piece into place. Not hard but use of a screwdriver will damage the stuff and then you may find it does not seal well.

These packing box styles are/were made by co. like Perko, Groco, Buck Algonquin, Spartan Marine, Wilcox Crittenden [ out of business now] and others.

They are sized by the shaft diam. and the connection to the shaft log. You will have to go on the sites and possibly contact them. Unless you are trying for a replacement part you may not have to 'match' exactly. Even so take a look.

Old Packing will be compressed now so you will need some picks. A small screwdriver some times works. Just be carefull to get all the remnant out. There are also packing removal tools which have flexible .spring shaft and a twisted wire end to bite into the old packing. Sometime a chandlery will have it but a good seal house/shop should also have them.

Flexible Packing Extractors & Sets by C.S. OSBORNE & CO.
C lectric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 08:09 AM   #6
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
3-4 layers is correct. Use GFO packing and you can run it dripless.

Look to see if the old packing has worn a groove in your shaft/s. If so, the next time you pull the boat replace the hoses with longer or shorter ones to move the packing to a smooth section of shaft. Also if you replace the hoses be sure you use the correct type. Regular marine exhaust/water hose is not made for stuffing box use.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 08:11 AM   #7
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
You should clean and change the ends on those bonding wires while you are at it.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 09:48 AM   #8
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,196
I would be really surprised if there is only one ring of packing. Get some dental pics and lay one up against the shaft while scraping out the inside of that deep cup nut. You can also use special corkscrew packing puller.
Only when you can scrape the inside of the tube nut and feel nothing but smooth metal have you gotten all the packing out.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 10:32 AM   #9
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,665
Try this:

Re-Packing A Traditional Stuffing Box Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 01:21 PM   #10
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
3-4 layers is correct. Use GFO packing and you can run it dripless.

Look to see if the old packing has worn a groove in your shaft/s. If so, the next time you pull the boat replace the hoses with longer or shorter ones to move the packing to a smooth section of shaft. Also if you replace the hoses be sure you use the correct type. Regular marine exhaust/water hose is not made for stuffing box use.
How much grooving on the shafts is too much? Or are we in the "any amount" category?
angus99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 02:41 PM   #11
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,853
When I broke 2 packing puller corkscrews on old packing....I started using long decking screws to drive into the packing with a screwdriver and pulling with vicegrips.

They didn't break and worked great.

I leave a couple in the top tray of my tool box and they Co e in handy for a lot of things.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 03:23 PM   #12
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post

Look to see if the old packing has worn a groove in your shaft/s. If so, the next time you pull the boat replace the hoses with longer or shorter ones to move the packing to a smooth section of shaft.
Thanks Capt.Bill!

Although, as obvious as this may seem, I hadn't thought of it. Great idea.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 08:42 PM   #13
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
How much grooving on the shafts is too much? Or are we in the "any amount" category?
Well, packing can deal with minor grooving pretty well. But once it gets to a certain point, which is a bit if a judgement call, or the call of a prop/shaft shop, you should move the stuffing box so the packing rides on a smooth spot. One way you can tell if the grooving is to extreme is if the only way to get the stuffing box to stop dripping is to have to way over tighten it.

And the shaft can get so scored that you need to have it repaired or replaced because it could snap at the groove. Again, if you are uncertain how bad the grooving is, have a professional look at it.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 10:46 PM   #14
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Well, packing can deal with minor grooving pretty well. But once it gets to a certain point, which is a bit if a judgement call, or the call of a prop/shaft shop, you should move the stuffing box so the packing rides on a smooth spot. One way you can tell if the grooving is to extreme is if the only way to get the stuffing box to stop dripping is to have to way over tighten it.

And the shaft can get so scored that you need to have it repaired or replaced because it could snap at the groove. Again, if you are uncertain how bad the grooving is, have a professional look at it.
Thanks, Cap. Don't think I can move mine, however. These are the heavy bronze stuffing boxes bolted to the hull. We're out of the water right now for exactly the inspection you're recommending.


angus99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 10:50 PM   #15
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brico View Post
I have unscrewed the big nut (clean one) on the left and pushed it towards the engine. There was one layer of 1/4" packing there half of it was sticking out and easily removed. The small nut (just right of it on the second photo, and still threaded on (the first photo) is some sort of locking nut for the big nut. When I have removed all four hose clamps from the rubber bellow/hose (third photo) the threaded piece with a flange that touches the rubber hose/bellow is spinning but has moved only 1/8" left towards the engine so I am unable to see what is under the hose and whether there is in fact any packing to be replaced / renewed. The small brass tube 3/8"on the right is where the hose is connected supplying water from the raw water pump. I will access it from other side tomorrow to have more purchase in order to try and push it to left towards the engine.

This to me seems as if the system works similar to the PSS dripless shaft seal with the rubber hose/bellow acting as a sort of seal wrapping around the through hull cutlass bearing and that piece that is spinning but not moving backwards, and only one layer of 1/4" packing is used to seal it.

Anyone have any tips knowledge about this is much appreciated.
Just to be clear:

You have a very typical stuffing box. ALL of the packing will be inside the big nut - all the way back to the end. You should find at least 3 and most likely 4 layers of packing inside that nut. As was said, there is nothing really "serviceable" inside that hose. In fact unless you think it needs replacing, I would not disturb it.

There is a good pic here:

http://www.alberg30.org/maintenance/...tuffingBox.png

Ken
kchace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 11:34 PM   #16
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,552
Filled with envy at members ability to take pics of accessible stern glands. Mine are concealed under the HW tank one side and battery boxes the other. The answers here are very informative.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 06:54 AM   #17
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,512
"Filled with envy at members ability to take pics of accessible stern glands. Mine are concealed under the HW tank one side and battery boxes the other."

Invite the boats designer and assembler to a party on board

, and DEEP 6 them!
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 07:15 AM   #18
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,994
Greetings,
A question for the group: We have exactly the same stuffing box as shown my Mr. 99 in post #14. In my haste to eliminate drips while running I overtightened my stuffing box. One heated up to about 150 degrees F and was "steaming" I backed off the flange causing both a cool down and a constant drip to be able to continue running. So, do I re-tighten to minimize/stop the dripping or have I compromised the packing material to the point where I will have to re-pack? I'm not able to leave the dock at the moment but don't want to leave the drip.
Thanks
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 07:25 AM   #19
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
A question for the group: We have exactly the same stuffing box as shown my Mr. 99 in post #14. In my haste to eliminate drips while running I overtightened my stuffing box. One heated up to about 150 degrees F and was "steaming" I backed off the flange causing both a cool down and a constant drip to be able to continue running. So, do I re-tighten to minimize/stop the dripping or have I compromised the packing material to the point where I will have to re-pack? I'm not able to leave the dock at the moment but don't want to leave the drip.
Thanks
It's hard to say if you damaged the packing without looking at it. If it was me and the stuffing boxes are fairly easy to get at, I'd repack them with GFO.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 07:31 AM   #20
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,994
Greetings,
Mr. 11. Has GFO in there now.
__________________

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012