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Old 02-24-2013, 02:34 PM   #21
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Thanks Everyone,

This is great info and very helpful in my planning.
I will just proceed as time permits to cover this old girl in Cetol.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:28 PM   #22
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The success of Cetol seems to very much depend on the climate and if the boat is kept inside or out. Over the years we have watched several people on our dock (sailboats mostly) take their teak back to raw in the summer, apply the recommended number of coats of Cetol and by the following spring the Cetol was shot and peeling off so they had to do it all over again.

Earlier this year we had a temporary slip assignment next to a CHB. The owner was renewing all the finish on his exterior teak including all the window frames. After telling me he liked Cetol because of the low maintenance he then went on to tell me that he had to do the complete strip, prep, and re-apply thing every two years. This boat, too, sits in the weather which up here means the boat is wet much of the year.

Based on our observation, while Cetol may be a long-lasting, maintenance-free finish in drier or warmer climates, up here it seems to be outperformed by the most basic spar varnish. At least if the boat lives in the weather. I would imagine if a boat is kept in a boathouse Cetol would be very durable, as would be most other bright finishes.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:00 PM   #23
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Based on our observation, while Cetol may be a long-lasting, maintenance-free finish in drier or warmer climates, up here it seems to be outperformed by the most basic spar varnish.
Such is the case down here. My best friend has a beautiful 34' Tartan that he is so proud of (and should be) but his Cetol never seems to hold up more than 6 months. He puts the "orange" color Cetol on it and it looks like hell!
i finally convinced him to strip it all off (it was flaking off anyway) and apply a good spar varnish, which he did.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:20 PM   #24
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Always used Epifanes on our wooden boat for 22 years. Usually had to wood varnished areas about every three years. But it looked beautiful.

Our IG came (5 yrs ago +/-) with two year old Cetol on its cap rails. Not that awful orange Cetol, but the "natural" with gloss over coats.

Have put a maintenance coat on every year. Just wash the rail down with a scuffy pad and then apply a gloss coat. So that makes about seven years so far. I can see a couple of areas now that are starting to "lift" so next year will have to deal with it.

We have a fairly moist clime (although not PNW moist).

Cetol gloss does not have the depth and lustre of a 15 coat, well applied, varnish job, but so far its been easier to maintain vs. varnish and doesn't look bad at all, at all.

But stay away from the orange Cetol. My wife has it on her sailboat and it is not pretty.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:33 PM   #25
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Is that sailboat in Seahorse`s post aka a S&S 34(Sparkman and Stephens 34)? Looks it.
I`ve been using Cetol TGL Gloss. It has been 2 years +, on flat exposed teak trim on the flybridge and is still good. I use it as varnish, easy to apply.
On cappings where I`d expect varnish to die < a year, I use Deks Olje 1 & 2.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"I have done enough varnish in my life to never want to do it again, once done and covered its the best of both worlds."

The best cover is a BOAT, so varnish to your hearts content INSIDE!

Leave varnishing on the outside to other boaters , and enjoy their fine endless work from a covered after deck lounge chair , and toast the results their unending endeavor with a brew!
Ha ha....FF, I think this is the first time I have ever totally agreed with you.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:28 PM   #27
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Varnish mahogany, never varnish teak. Teak has two important characteristics that varnishing ruins. It is oily and doesn't take varnish well. It is sticky when wet, not slippery, unless it is varnished. They put it on the decks of WWII aircraft carriers for the men to work on and the airplanes to land on, but they didn't varnish it. It will turn a beautiful gray. Only clean it with tiny amounts of dishsoap and TSP. Saltwater is good for it.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:35 PM   #28
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Varnish mahogany, never varnish teak.
If you're talking about a teak deck, you're correct. However you don't wash a teak deck with salt water because it's good for it. It's no better or worse for teak than fresh water. You use salt water for an entirely different reason that has nothing to do with the teak deck planks themselves.

If you're talking about never using varnish on teak, period, then that is simply not correct as Grand Banks, Fleming, and a bazillion other boat and yacht builders will be more than happy to tell you.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:55 PM   #29
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Last Summer the varnish on my rails, flybridge ladder and cap rails was nearing the end of its life.

I scraped it all off and lightly sanded all the surfaces.

Now I am thinking of leaving it natural.

It has weathered a light gray like the deck. The ladder is much less slippery without the varnish.

My dock neighbor has a sixties build American Marine Motorsailer, also with teak railings. He has left them natural for 30 years. Only washing once and a while and cleaning with a scotchbrite pad every three years.

I have stripped and completely refinshed the teak transom and the trim on the flybridge stays nice because it is covered.

Thinking of only doing the rails and making some sunbrella covers for them. I don't like the way the covers look but I kind of miss the varnished rails.

We shall see how ambitious I feel when the weather finally drys out in NJ.

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Old 02-25-2013, 09:24 PM   #30
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Be careful leaving teak hand, cap, and grabrails to weather. Unlike deck planks where only the upper surface is exposed to the weather and the planks are sawn to present the tightest grain to the weather, the grain of the wood in rails is much more exposed all around, and some of the grain can be pretty "loose" which is what gives the wood its figuring.

With no finish on it-- varnish or some other bright finish or paint-- the weather can attack the softer, wider runs of grain and wear them away or open them up. The result over time can be crevassing, cracking, splitting, and black mold down deep in the wood. How fast this can happen will depend on the climate the boat is in and if it's in covered or open moorage.

Up here in the wet weather I've seen unprotected grab rails go from smooth gray wood to crevassed and black-streaked grain in less than a year. When the owner tried to return the wood to a smooth surface for finishing he had to sand off so much the wood was no longer dimensionally correct and in the end he had to have new grab rails fabricated from new teak. Not cheap.

Not saying this will automatically happen where you are but up here if we had a buck for every time we've seen unprotected rails and trim weather to past-redemption condition we'd be well on the way to buying that Fleming 55 we'd like.

So consider it carefully.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:19 PM   #31
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Thanks Marin,
That means you've saved me some wasted effort and time lost trying to save mine. What I fear is not being able to find replacements that have the same spacing and needing to plug holes and drill new ones. Not very appealing. Perhaps I should have SS ones made to match my holes. I could also install short stanchions over the existing holes and put an oval teak hand rail on top of the little stanchions. May look better than the cookie cutter punched out look of the originals.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:23 PM   #32
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When we bought Doriana the teak cappings showed little attention for a long time, save a quick tart-up. The unprotected bow, unlike sides and aft protected by the Europa design, was unevenly grooved into the grain by weather. To sand flat would remove too much material. I lightly sanded the bow, leaving much of the unevenness,sanded the rest smooth, all got Deks Olje 1 & 2 treatment. The bow is just ok, the consequence of leaving it natural, which I would not advise, the rest is good. The flybridge steps were removed (giving access to varnish teak trim at the deckhead) and fully varnished with Cetol gloss,charcoal color textured step-treads were applied leaving nice timber margins on each step.
I would not leave exposed teak natural. My only untreated teak is the feet of the angle brackets I made for the solar panels, the feet sit under the panels.
Eric,you might be surprised at the availability of surprisingly cheap ready made teak grab rails at chandlers (here anyway).
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:34 AM   #33
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Sounds like it is better to refinsh and have the protection of the varnish to keep the water out of the wood.

I like the way the cap and rails look varnished, so another Spring project in the works.

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Old 03-01-2013, 05:55 PM   #34
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When we bought Doriana the teak cappings showed little attention for a long time, save a quick tart-up. The unprotected bow, unlike sides and aft protected by the Europa design, was unevenly grooved into the grain by weather. To sand flat would remove too much material. I lightly sanded the bow, leaving much of the unevenness,sanded the rest smooth, all got Deks Olje 1 & 2 treatment. The bow is just ok, the consequence of leaving it natural, which I would not advise, the rest is good. The flybridge steps were removed (giving access to varnish teak trim at the deckhead) and fully varnished with Cetol gloss,charcoal color textured step-treads were applied leaving nice timber margins on each step.
I would not leave exposed teak natural. My only untreated teak is the feet of the angle brackets I made for the solar panels, the feet sit under the panels.
Eric,you might be surprised at the availability of surprisingly cheap ready made teak grab rails at chandlers (here anyway).
How does the Deks Olje compare with other products to work with? I have to do something with the teak on my boat this summer. The previous owner oiled the teak, which I am letting fade off. The rails have been sanded so much over the years that in several areas really need to be replaced as well.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:12 PM   #35
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How does the Deks Olje compare with other products to work with? I have to do something with the teak on my boat this summer. The previous owner oiled the teak, which I am letting fade off. The rails have been sanded so much over the years that in several areas really need to be replaced as well.
Dave, initial application is intense, but rewarding. With the surface where you want it, apply no. 1 product, the oil, over 5-6 hours until the wood takes no more. Wipe the excess, let it dry 2 days, apply it 4-5 coats of no.2, clear gloss, a day apart. Or you can just oil, forget no.2 and forgo gloss,and re-oil as needed.
The result is not varnish quality,it`s a compromise some won`t like. However, it easy to apply and maintain. Mask edges, it is thin and can run, keep coats light, except the initial oil coats.
When it looks dull/dry or an area gets damaged you mostly do one or 2 coats of no.2 and it comes right back. The trick is saturating the wood to begin.
I`ve "revived" mine twice so far, beats heavy sanding or removing old varnish to bare wood, losing wood year after year. Long term it is a good solution in terms of effort, finish, and conserving the wood you have.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:47 PM   #36
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On brand new raw bare teak would you put CPES on before starting the varnish or would you just start with varnish? Does CPES darken the teak? Boat will be under cover most of the time . Boat is in south and might make it as far as the keys someday hopefully. What varnish do most of you suggest and how many coats .
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:05 PM   #37
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:45 PM   #38
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I've never done it, but I've heard it recommended from so many experts, I'd go with the CPES followed by a quality varnish.

My doors are due to be stripped and rebuilt. They'll get CPES then Epifanes. I'd follow the manufacturer's recommendations for number of coats, but 3-4 as a minimum over CPES seems to be accepted. (I like more....enough to eliminate the grain in the top coats.)

This is from the CPES webpage:

As a primer on wood:
No matter what you plan as your finish coat on wood, CPES™ is a superior base. It not only dissolves any moisture and sap present, but penetrates the surface fibers like no other product on the market for a secure bond which will last for years. Paint (including Latex), varnish and one or 2-part polyurethane finishes will adhere better and last longer.

One generous coating of CPES™ is usually sufficient, although in areas that require additional protection multiple coats can be applied. CPES™ can be used over wood stains once they are completely dry. The CPES™ will not redistribute the stain in any way. CPES™ is a light amber color and it's effect on the color of wood is about the same as normal varnish - it will darken it.

When applied as a paint/varnish primer outdoors, apply early enough in the day to prevent evening dew/condensation from contaminating a wet CPES™ application.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:55 PM   #39
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35 years of maintaining teak and Cetol is the best treatment we have found. We do three to four coats of Cetol hand rubbing it with 800-1000 grit wet/dry paper and tack rag, then two coats of Cetol Gloss. When needed a maintenance coat using a Scotchbrite pads to dull it and another coat of gloss. In Florida one to two years for for maintenance coats, now that we are in the land of covered marina's four to five years for maintenance coating. The cockpit teak deck is treated to a occasional salt water light scrubbing with the Sotchbrite pads as seldom as possible and the teak and joints still look good after 26 years of use. We like Captain's Spar varnish on the interior teak decks. We prefer to work on the teak as little as possible and still have it look great, we would rather be out on the water than being a slave to sanders, dust masks, heat guns and scrapers.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:41 AM   #40
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I use the Epifanes....to me, nothing beats that look of finely varnished teak, and I got right at 2 yrs out of the last job and in the process of doing it again...still going back to Epifanes after considering alternatives.
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