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Old 09-12-2017, 05:55 PM   #41
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Don't use epoxy. As stated, the sun will get to it and yellow it. Any cracks and water intrusion will blacken it. If you want to seal it before varnishing, try Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer CPES. First you must wood the surface (remove any coatings). Brush on CPES until the wood won't soak in anymore. Let it dry till tacky and then apply your first slightly thinned coat of varnish. The varnish will adhere to the CPES and give you a nice bond. You'll need multiple coats of varnish as the CPES is an epoxy product and UV rays will degrade it over time. I shoot for six to eight coats. The biggest difference between CPES and Epoxy is, the CPES gets soaked into the wood where it hardens the fibers. It will prevent water intrusion much better than a "coating" of epoxy. I usually do an annual coat of varnish in the spring time. If you keep up with it and repair dents and cracks quickly, you can get ten- fifteen years before you need to wood it and start over. Yes, much more time consuming that Cetol, but also much nicer looking. Hard to beat varnished teak.
Former wooden sailboat owner for 35 years.
Don't use epoxy. Use epoxy instead. Roger.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:58 PM   #42
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McDuff,
Is it that you don't use epoxy any more or ?
There is a great deal of talk about CPES in years past. I think it's been a long time since it's been posted on the board.

Looks like your anchor line is through the stbd bow chock. Do you do that because it's a sailboat or to put the boat at an angle to limit swinging on the hook?
CPES = epoxy + MEK. Make your own, as it is a bit cheaper.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:22 PM   #43
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What is MEK?

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Old 09-12-2017, 06:25 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Don't use epoxy. Use watered down, compromised and overpriced epoxy instead. Roger.
Corrected for you.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:28 PM   #45
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What is MEK?

L
Methyl ethyl ketone.

In Australia most boat builders I know who thin epoxy use metholated spirits and I believe this was discussed in the west system guides and deemed not necessary.

I prefer to use a laminating resin on a warm day which in reality is more than thin enough
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:36 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
CPES = epoxy + MEK. Make your own, as it is a bit cheaper.
Good to know. Does it kick faster when thinned?

Lou,
Methyl Ether Keytone.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:36 PM   #47
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Problem with epoxy is finding the right balance between temperature to make it fluid and drying time. I found that using it during a hot summer day with a slow hardener is fine. I used it to seal a table foot covered with cork and I got good result. Regarding usage before varnish there is a thread on this on wooden boat forum that is interesting

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Old 09-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #48
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Nomad: MEK is also called butanone, which if you look at the MSDS for CPES is basically the only other ingredient other than the chemicals comprising epoxy.

And no, it doesn't kick faster, it kicks a bit slower and West says its mechanical strength is reduced, but that doesn't matter if what you are trying to do is waterproof the substrate and create a base for varnish. For ding resistance, I like adding the extra coast of epoxy, sanded flat before laying on varnish. Wait at least a week before putting on varnish, because the epoxy will continue to cure and out gas a bit for a period of time.

Eric if you built Uniflite boats, you built some stout ones.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:37 PM   #49
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Delfin,
Thanks for the input. Always nice to have options.

Yes the Uni's were good boats. They were/aren't terribly efficient .. heavy w wide chines. But they were a comfortable ride though and as long as one can afford the fuel ... great boats. Many of their peers were better looking (like Tollys) but few were as solid.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:37 PM   #50
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Cetol Marine Gloss

Can I drop in on this thread for another finishing-related question. I am planning a maintenance coat of Cetol Marine Gloss tomorrow morning. I have done the prep work and want to get this done before I have to clean all over again. Saturday forecast is great - cloudy but dry. Problems come Sunday when rain is expected. Will a Saturday afternoon dry time (plus overnight) be sufficient? I tried calling the support line at Sikkens but we traded voice mail until after closing time. Thanks gang!!
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:40 PM   #51
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Can I drop in on this thread for another finishing-related question. I am planning a maintenance coat of Cetol Marine Gloss tomorrow morning. I have done the prep work and want to get this done before I have to clean all over again. Saturday forecast is great - cloudy but dry. Problems come Sunday when rain is expected. Will a Saturday afternoon dry time (plus overnight) be sufficient? I tried calling the support line at Sikkens but we traded voice mail until after closing time. Thanks gang!!
IMO, yes, no problem. I used Cetol on a bow pulpit and seem to recall not worrying too much about the prospect of rain, and in any case the stuff seems to kick off pretty quickly.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:58 PM   #52
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If I can interfere, it will depend on the temperature and humidity. First never used cetol in a hot sunny day at noon when the sun warm you like hell. Second if the night is chilly fresh it will take time to dry.
Just my 2 cents.

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Old 09-15-2017, 07:08 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Can I drop in on this thread for another finishing-related question. I am planning a maintenance coat of Cetol Marine Gloss tomorrow morning. I have done the prep work and want to get this done before I have to clean all over again. Saturday forecast is great - cloudy but dry. Problems come Sunday when rain is expected. Will a Saturday afternoon dry time (plus overnight) be sufficient? I tried calling the support line at .Sikkens but we traded voice mail until after closing time. Thanks gang!!
I was varnishing this morning. The humidity today is perfect. No worries about keeping a wet edge, as the varnish stays wet long enough. No worries about the dew marring the finish because it is dry long before it is late enough for the dew to start falling.
Of course I am not talking about Cetol, but unless it tells you on the can to allow an extra long time for it to dry, it should take no longer than varnish in the present level of humidity.

Too bad yours will still look like paint when you are done, rather than like beautiful wood.
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Old 09-15-2017, 08:28 PM   #54
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I have used Cetol for 20 years. 4-6 hours of dry time before it rains will be fine.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:06 PM   #55
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Great input all. Thanks a ton!
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:35 PM   #56
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I have the epoxy with coats of tinted Cetol then coats of clear Cetol on my cap rails. I'm periodically applying Paint Guard Plus to them in the hope that it will protect the top layer of Cetol and extend the period of time before it will require a new coat of Cetol. They bead water pretty well with the Paint Guard Plus, which bonds to the Cetol.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:29 AM   #57
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Is a coat of paint guard plus better at protecting the cetol Gloss than another coat of cetol Gloss would be?
I was so please with how my maintenance coat turned out I am thinking of adding another just for greater durability. Also, in the spots where I had to go right back to bare wood and start again with the tint I think I need more than the one layer of Gloss.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:35 AM   #58
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Is a coat of paint guard plus better at protecting the cetol Gloss than another coat of cetol Gloss would be?
I was so please with how my maintenance coat turned out I am thinking of adding another just for greater durability. Also, in the spots where I had to go right back to bare wood and start again with the tint I think I need more than the one layer of Gloss.
The Paint Guard Plus is basically the equivalent of adding a coat of wax, except it is a synthetic product that is wipe on, walk away (no need to wipe off). So it literally takes about 5 minutes to run around the entire boat and apply it to the cap rails. I can tell the way the rails bead water that it bonds with the Cetol and adds a layer of protection. Like wax, it wears off, but it lasts way longer than wax. I use it on my cars and the stuff lasts an eternity, as in 6 months. I figure if I put a coat on every month or so, it will help. And given the fact that it takes 5 minutes, I'm much more likely to actually do it.
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Old Yesterday, 03:10 PM   #59
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Okay boaters...one more quick question about the Gloss finish. It looks great on the rail and cap rail. Would it be too much on the cabin doors? Should I leave that a more satin finish or is the Gloss just as great there?
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Old Yesterday, 03:24 PM   #60
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Okay boaters...one more quick question about the Gloss finish. It looks great on the rail and cap rail. Would it be too much on the cabin doors? Should I leave that a more satin finish or is the Gloss just as great there?
IMO, you can't beat Epifanes Rubbed Effect varnish on interior wood. Much harder than varnish, it won't show scratches like gloss will.
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