Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-02-2010, 05:11 PM   #21
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,713
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Phil,
Thats what I use* ..Dalys. From the place on Stone Way in Seattle. Too much build for me but all the places that have build aren't black like the rest (about 50%). Just put it on this late summer too. I have the same problem w my wife. She just loves to varnish*** .. no** .. she has no friends. I've read that raw linseed oil, pine tar, turpentine, tung oil, kerosene and even lube oil can work well on wood. Just about anything will turn it black except varnish. Perhaps the fact that varnish sits on top of the wood and don'nt penetrate is responsible for the fact that it dosn't turn black.

Eric Henning
__________________
Advertisement

Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 05:51 PM   #22
Guru
 
2bucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 698
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Quote:
koliver wrote:

MT likes Cetol.
Cetol is not varnish, it has pigment in it, like paint, and will never give the sparkle that characterizes varnish.
When I do my varnish, I start with an artist's brush, 1/4 to 3/8 inch wide and soft. I touch up holes in the varnish, which i clean out with a small scraper.
I do not remover the old varnish anywhere that remains properly adhered to the teak. That took years and years to build to the thickness that permits the easy maintenance of a recoat once or at most twice a year.
Once the holes are patched, with as many coats as you need to build the spot up to the level of the rest of the adjoining surface, I sand the whole of the rail or other piece of teak that I am redoing, with fine paper, the fineness depending on the quality of the surface I am working on.
Around my windows, for example, I haven't had to revarnish very often, less than once a year, so the finish isn't as thick as the rails, so on the windows I still need to use a 120 to 220 grit paper, whereas the rails get done at least every year, so have a perfectly smooth finish and get touched up with 440 grit paper.
Then two coats of Epifanes varnish. the second before the first is fully dried, so no sanding between. I do this every year, but sometimes it doesn't happen till I am away on annual vacation, as I wait for good weather, sun, warm, calm.
Without failure, my rails are the nicest around. Occasionally I see someone whose are as nice, but they usually have a story of a complete redo at great expense.
In reality there are different types of Cetol. There is the traditional Cetol with the orange hue, there is the lighter Cetol with much less orange glow, and the Clear Gloss Cetol which goes over the top of either of the other two. The clear gloss is as easy to apply as Epiphanes, and builds faster than Epiphanes. I have seat trim stained to match and then coated with Epiphanes directly next to (1" away) trim coated with Cetol clear gloss. You cannot tell the difference. To say that all Cetol has color to it is wrong.

I used gallons of Epiphanes on my previous boat in the 15 years I had it.*My current*boat had used Cetol prior to my buying her and so I continued with Cetol. Depending on your particular definition of what "varnish" is you may or may not agree. If you are only aware of the colored*undercoat Cetol then you need to visit the chandlery and look at the clear gloss.

*
__________________

2bucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 07:17 PM   #23
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,170
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Ken:
OK, maybe the folks at Cetol are listening. I don't need to mess with success, so I'll keep doing what I know works.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 05:19 AM   #24
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

The "bible" for varnish and such is Rebecca Wittman's "Brightwork" aptly named. I don't know if it's still in print, but I think you can pick up a copy used on Amazon and other book sellers. Worth evey penny many times over if you're new to brightwork.

I use Signature Finish's Honey Teak on my boat. Follow the instructions carefully on the initial coating, then you'll only have to do maintenance once every year to 18 months. Beautiful finish!

http://www.fabulainc.com/
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 10:40 AM   #25
Guru
 
2bucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 698
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Quote:
koliver wrote:

Ken:
OK, maybe the folks at Cetol are listening. I don't need to mess with success, so I'll keep doing what I know works.
I think they got the message about the orange color loud and clear. With the newer colors they might start to build followers again. I thought I'd never leave Epiphanes, but I couldn't strip and revarnish the entire boat in any reasonable time period to warrant a change. Now after using Cetol for a few years, I see no reason to change back. Epiphanes is a great varnish. I wouldn't change just for the sake of change either.

*
2bucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 02:25 PM   #26
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,713
Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Good to see you on the forum again Kieth. Yes Whittman's book is excellent but I think it's a book on varnishing** .. not finishing. However, I think I should read her stuff on interior teak finishing as my needs are mounting.
Ken,**
I don't like the Cetol orange at all and feel no need to buy any Cetol product for my boat. Here in Alaska there are numerous Cetol products in the hardware store in gallons that are good for houses and carports ect and many people use them w good results. For the price I think I can mix up my own stuff for a small fraction of the Cetol cost. There are many varnishes of very high quality that give beautiful and stunning results if properly used. Schooner, Epiphanes, Mcklosky's and others are excellent. The idea that one is better than the other is, I think, fly stuff. At one time ingredients were listed on the product and all one needed to know was that phenolic resin and tung oil produced the best varnish. Now they say "a tung oil product". Could be 30% tung oil or 2% tung oil, the rest being linseed oil (an inferrior product). Epoxy seems to be resin of resins for years now and I don't recall seeing an epoxy varnish. Does it exist? Keith, could the "Honey Teak" be epoxy?

Eric Henning

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Sunday 3rd of January 2010 03:38:24 PM
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 10:42 AM   #27
Guru
 
Fotoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 621
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

What about Bristol? Anyone has experience with that?
Fotoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #28
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Quote:
Fotoman wrote:

What about Bristol? Anyone has experience with that?
Tried it once. It was very thin and runny. Lots of sags and thin spots. Maybe I did something wrong but I didn't like it and have no desire to try it again.


-- Edited by dwhatty on Monday 4th of January 2010 02:35:07 PM
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 04:02 PM   #29
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

I tried it twice! Didn't have success with it either time. I'm back to Epifane.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	epifane.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	43.4 KB
ID:	1680  
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:55 AM   #30
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

*
I have tried Bristo but its to thin/runny, hard to work with, and does not last any longer than some of the other varnishes that apply easier and build coats quicker.* I also use West System clear epoxy on certain weather areas and to build coats/layers quickly.* Many of the mega yachts are bright work are covered with Epoxy not varnish.* However, I do apply several coat of varnish over the epoxy for UV protection.*


*
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 11:58 AM   #31
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Quote:
Fotoman wrote:

What about Bristol? Anyone has experience with that?
We switched to Bristol about ten years ago and will never use varnish (or anything else) again.* Bristol takes some getting used to in terms of its application, but once the technique is mastered we have found it to be so superior to varnish that in our opinion, varnish is not even worth considering anymore.* At least not in our climate (PNW).* I have no idea how it does in hotter climates.

We far prefer the thin consistency of Bristol to the heavier consistency of varnish.* When applied correctly-- and that is the key--- we get fewer runs, sags, or uneven surfaces than with varnish.* In our experience, Bristol lasts more times longer than varnish for us to count.* Our boat sits outside year-round and we have pieces of exterior wood that received some ten coats of Bristol seven or eight years ago and have not required a new coating although after this time the finish on these pieces has dulled somewhat and a new coat would be a good idea.

The only issue with Bristol is that it can soften and distort vinyl and other plastics before it's dried and cured, so it should not be used over lettering on nameboards and such unless the lettering has been protected with a coat or two of varnish.

We have met a number of people who, like other posters here, had a tough time figuring out the application technique of Bristol, particularly on vertical surfaces.* So they decided they didn't like it and went back to varnish or some other product.* But everyone we know who has used the correct application technique ends up feeling the same way about Bristol as we do.

On bare wood we apply Bristol over an initial coating of CPES that is still a bit tacky, which we have found improves the adherence and longevity even more.* This technique is equally effective with varnish.

Bristol is not a magic bullet, and like varnish, the more coats applied the better the longevity.* We shoot for a minimum of six coats but prefer to get ten or so on.* Also, as with varnish, the longevity of a Bristol finish is dependent on the integrity of the bedding of the wood to the cabin side or whatever surface it's attached to, and the integrity of the joints in the wood.* If moisture can get under the surface via poor or failing bedding or open joints, it will lift the Bristol finish same as it would a varnish finish.* We have found the CPES is a help in this regard.



-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 5th of January 2010 01:01:07 PM
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:20 PM   #32
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:

I tried it twice! Didn't have success with it either time. I'm back to Epifane.
In 40+ years of boat ownership, I have tried just about all the "varnish" products. I always seem to go back to Epifanes. Most of the boatyards around here use it as there staple, tried and true.

*
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:55 PM   #33
Guru
 
Fotoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 621
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Thanks Guru. Another question, what about Cetol?
Fotoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 04:35 PM   #34
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

I've had no direct experience with Cetol. My observation has been that their wood finishes are very muddy looking and orange-tinted after application. However I understand they have some newer products that yield a brighter finish, more natural finish, more like varnish, when applied. There are a couple of owners on our dock who use Cetol on their sailboats and they don't seem to get any longer life out of it, or less work, than the folks who use varnish. But I don't know which particular Cetol product they are using. It's a terrrible thing to put on a teak deck but I assume you are interested in a finish for the boat's exterior trim.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 08:40 PM   #35
Guru
 
Forkliftt's Avatar
 
City: Biloxi Mississippi
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Patricia Louise II
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,433
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

About 2 years ago we prepped our deck furniture and I sprayed it with Bristol Finish with a Binks Model 7. As I recall I mixed it with the activator and an accelerator. I have some exterior teak to refinish in the spring and will be using Bristol for that job for sure- but will be brushing. I also included a picture of Bristol for anyone interested!!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dscf4883.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	139.7 KB
ID:	1691  
Forkliftt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:19 PM   #36
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Varnish Brightwork Like a Pro - Part 1

Bristol used to be a three-part mixture. There was the urethane base, the catalyst, and a retarder. A number of years ago they changed it to a two-part mixture, the base and the catalyst. The ratio is 8 to 1. The retarder is still available for those applications where slowing the cure time is desireable.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Davis Vantage Pro wireless external unit - free Keith Classifieds 1 12-02-2011 07:44 AM
Davis Vantage Pro weather station Keith Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 5 10-08-2011 07:36 AM
Varnish Briightwork Like a Pro - Part 2 marinetrader General Maintenance 0 01-06-2010 06:42 AM
Drive Savers - pro or con? RED Power Systems 11 02-04-2009 05:03 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012